ForeFlight or Jeppesen MFD/VFR?

[Travis Colby]

I'm getting ready to invest in an iPad and looking for a little help in determining which direction to go. I am VFR only and had planned on going with ForeFlight, but I'm looking at $1,500 to get started ($600 for the 32GB iPad and $900 for the Stratus ADS-B ). Plus, that one is $149 per year. On the other hand, the Jeppesen Mobile Flight Deck VFR is only $49 per yer and would only take $600 to get started ($500 for the 16GB iPad and $100 for the external GPS).

Has anyone compared the two programs? Anything on Foreflight you just can't live without, or is the Jeppesen MFD/VFR a better choice? Has anyone used both? Is there anything on the MFD/VFR that is better than ForeFlight?

What do you think?

 

[DrewG]

I have no experience with the Jepp stuff, but I started with ForeFlight basic subscription ($80) and had it linked to a BadElf Pro external GPS, which was about $200. If you're just wanting GPS, there's no requirement to get a $900 Stratus 2. However, if you want to go all-out, then yes, I'd say ForeFlight and Stratus is the way to go for all-encompassing GPS, weather, traffic and AHRS capability.

I'll edit to add that I just bought a second-hand Stratus 1, but won't be giving it it's first use until this weekend. So, I didn't last too long in the "GPS only" camp for long, myself. So, if you're wanting some of the benefits of the Stratus 2, but don't need the AHRS or dual-band traffic, you might look for a used first-gen Stratus for about half the cost of the Stratus 2.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I have just started using foreflight and only really compared it to Garmin Pilot after reading a bunch of reviews. The foreflight app has a very loyal following from what I gather, loads of info online, and a VERY Responsive customer service team from my experience.

 

[murphey]

It's really a religious issue. High wing, low wing. Etc. One technical difference - WingX, FF, Garmin all use scans (PDFs?) of the FAA maps. Jepp has their own technology (vector graphics). As you zoom in, there's more detail because the mapping technology uses layers of data.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm getting ready to invest in an iPad and looking for a little help in determining which direction to go. I am VFR only and had planned on going with ForeFlight, but I'm looking at $1,500 to get started ($600 for the 32GB iPad and $900 for the Stratus ADS-B ). Plus, that one is $149 per year. On the other hand, the Jeppesen Mobile Flight Deck VFR is only $49 per yer and would only take $600 to get started ($500 for the 16GB iPad and $100 for the external GPS).

Has anyone compared the two programs? Anything on Foreflight you just can't live without, or is the Jeppesen MFD/VFR a better choice? Has anyone used both? Is there anything on the MFD/VFR that is better than ForeFlight?

What do you think?

I think you should start by comparing apples to apples - If you don't need ADS-B (which it appears you don't, since your stated Jepp solution doesn't have it), then just get an external GPS like a Bad Elf. That costs the same regardless of whose software you use it with.

In addition, you could go with the regular $75/year subscription to ForeFlight instead of the Pro version.

Best thing to do is to give them a try and find out what works best for you. ForeFlight is well-known for being intuitive and having great customer support. Jepp, on the other hand, rarely even enters the discussion when talking about EFB software. It seems that most people choose ForeFlight, Garmin Pilot, or WingX. Most of the other ones haven't been able to stay afloat in this crowded market.

FWIW, I use ForeFlight, and out of my 30-member flying club, based on an informal raising of hands at our last annual meeting, only one person in the club didn't fly with an iPad, and only one of the people who did fly with an iPad didn't use ForeFlight. That's pretty impressive market penetration, though it's certainly a small sample.

 

[olasek]

Garmin all use scans (PDFs?) of the FAA maps. Jepp has their own technology (vector graphics).

I use Garmin Pilot and it does have (in my understanding) something that equates with 'vector' graphics, I like it a lot.

Has anyone compared the two programs?

Compare them yourself - most offer 30 day free trial period (not sure about Jeppesen though). See which one you like most. If I were VFR only I would be seriously looking into the Jepp product because their products tend to be top notch.

 

[trepine]

I can confirm. Garmin definately has a vector map, which is also integrated with their vector based safetaxi airport diagrams. Sectional view is also available.

 

[TulsaWeather]

Look at an iPad Mini too.

I found the mini is a much better size in the cockpit with a yoke mount (and is easier to pop out and carry out at destination too)

 

[flyingron]

Theoretically Jepp should win with vector maps, but historically they've lost information in their attempt to be clever (I have had several of their prior products) and this one seems to be not much different.

The Foreflight (or other who use the Sectionals) don't really have too much of an issue with scaling in normal navigational mode. When you're zoomed way out in planning perhaps it's a bit busy. The one thing that vector graphics does have going for it is the "right side up"-ness when you're not using "chart up" orientations.

Frankly Jepps got enough other deficiencies the last time I saw it to counter the map "advantage."

 

[Unit74]

I have only used Foreflight and can say my situational awareness navigating is off the chart. I started using it without reading the manual and picked up about 85% of its functions. I'd say get the pro subscription. It's a bit more, but unlocks the intuitive features.

 

[dukeblue219]

I'm getting ready to invest in an iPad and looking for a little help in determining which direction to go. I am VFR only and had planned on going with ForeFlight, but I'm looking at $1,500 to get started ($600 for the 32GB iPad and $900 for the Stratus ADS-B ). Plus, that one is $149 per year. On the other hand, the Jeppesen Mobile Flight Deck VFR is only $49 per yer and would only take $600 to get started ($500 for the 16GB iPad and $100 for the external GPS).

Has anyone compared the two programs? Anything on Foreflight you just can't live without, or is the Jeppesen MFD/VFR a better choice? Has anyone used both? Is there anything on the MFD/VFR that is better than ForeFlight?

What do you think?

Why do you want the Stratus receiver? You don't need that, so comparing it with a $100 external GPS for the Jepp isn't a straightforward comparison. I also don't know why you're comparing different sized iPads, either. You're likely to need a 32GB either way, though the 16GB will suffice IF you're only working in your homestate and its neighboring states.

I would suggest simply getting a 32GB cellular version of the iPad mini retina. Should be $629 new or a bit cheaper Apple-refurbished. That will give you the GPS you need, then get the standard version of FF to start with.

 

[poadeleted20]

You do not need the Stratus with iPad/Foreflight unless you also want ADS-B-in weather and traffic data, and if you want that, you'll still need the Stratus with the Jepp software. Either way, you'll have to pay the $100 extra for either internal or external GPS if you want VFR navigational capability. I have been using the iPad with internal GPS (part of the cellular versions, but you do not need to activate a cellular account to get the GPS to work) for four years, and it works just fine without having to carry an additional box with me.

Also, unless you're flying IFR, you get very little extra for the $150 Pro version of Foreflight -- the basic $75 version should do you just fine. However, you get a ton of features and capability with Foreflight that you don't get with the Jepp software.

All things considered, I think you'll be a lot happier in the long run with a 32gb cellular iPad and standard Foreflight.

 

[rbridges]

I know foreflight lets you get a trial period. I would imagine most reputable companies do. Get an ipad and try them out. One with 3G built in will have a GPS, but I never had anything except the wifi models--I knew I was going to get a stratus for mine. If you plan to stay VFR, the base stratus (if you choose foreflight) is 499 which is considerably cheaper than the Stratus 2.

bottom line, get an ipad and download the trial versions.

 

[CTLSi]

Garmin 796 or Garmin GTN 750....iPad/Foreflight are for the renters.

 

[rbridges]

Garmin 796 or Garmin GTN 750....iPad/Foreflight are for the renters.

maybe he's renting?

 

[Unit74]

Garmin 796 or Garmin GTN 750....iPad/Foreflight are for the renters.

don't tell that to all the ATPs or they might hurt you..... I sat next to one in ATL waiting g for his plane to land and he was setting up his charts.

Not mention, most people don't have $20k to spit at an airplane, so I find your comments rather arrogant and disingenuous.

 

[Turningfinal]

don't tell that to all the ATPs or they might hurt you..... I sat next to one in ATL waiting g for his plane to land and he was setting up his charts.

Not mention, most people don't have $20k to spit at an airplane, so I find your comments rather arrogant and disingenuous.

He's just a bored troll trying to get everyone's panties all bunched up. Just ignore him.

 

[CTLSi]

Here's a fun question. What are the iPad Foreflight weenies gonna do when the ADS-B mandate forces everyone to have a certified GPS/WAAS?

You gonna haul those things around as a backup to your new GPS?

 

[4CornerFlyer]

When Jeppesen decides to charge less than $140 for a single update of USA coverage for its panel-mounted GPS captive market, then I would consider giving them a single penny more for other products.That's right, a full year of Foreflight Pro with all its features for about the same cost as a single GPS Navdata update valid for 28 days.
Jon

 

[Turningfinal]

Here's a fun question. What are the iPad Foreflight weenies gonna do when the ADS-B mandate forces everyone to have a certified GPS/WAAS?

You gonna haul those things around as a backup to your new GPS?

Who said anything about a new GPS?

 

[AggieMike88]

Here's a fun question. What are the iPad Foreflight weenies gonna do when the ADS-B mandate forces everyone to have a certified GPS/WAAS?

You gonna haul those things around as a backup to your new GPS?

Boy, when you want to show off ignorance, you really do it in spades.

The ADS-B mandate has nothing to do with if you have an EFB or not.

And even today, an EFB has nothing to do with ADS-B out. It can act as a display of the ADS-B In data (aid to situational awareness). And will likely do so when the year 2020 rolls around. But "iPad Foreflight" (sic) was never intended to be a means of complying with ADS-B out.

As far as what I am going to do? I'll have access to a compliant aircraft, and still have my tablet and EFB of choice to aid in situational awareness.

CTLSi, you really need to get your information act together and quit spewing out incorrect and dangerous stuff. All you accomplish is confusion and loss of respect by the majority of the membership.

 

[CTLSi]

Boy, when you want to show off ignorance, you really do it in spades.

The ADS-B mandate has nothing to do with if you have an EFB or not.

And even today, an EFB has nothing to do with ADS-B out. It can act as a display of the ADS-B In data (aid to situational awareness). And will likely do so when the year 2020 rolls around. But "iPad Foreflight" (sic) was never intended to be a means of complying with ADS-B out.

As far as what I am going to do? I'll have access to a compliant aircraft, and still have my tablet and EFB of choice to aid in situational awareness.

CTLSi, you really need to get your information act together and quit spewing out incorrect and dangerous stuff. All you accomplish is confusion and loss of respect by the majority of the membership.

I love when goofs don't read or understand the subject.

In order to comply with ADS-B, view traffic, get the weather one must have not just a way to display the information, but also install a CERTIFIED GPS/WAAS. After doing all of that, what good is the funny little iPad/Foreflight setup when all the functionality is finally sitting in the panel?

Oh wait, that's a big problem right? Having to invest in current tech in those old lumbering Cessna 150s and 172s? The upgrade will cost more than the plane is worth, right?

By the way, if you havn't already done the upgrade, you may be sitting soon in violation. The backup queue is longer than avionics shops can handle now.

 

[murphey]

Garmin 796 or Garmin GTN 750....iPad/Foreflight are for the renters.

I own but I don't have an extra $14,000 for the GTN 750. Even the $10,000 for the 650 is not in the budget. You, of course, gloat because you've got the Dynon in your LSA.

Gloat. Have a good time. I ask again, how much did your LSA cost? You didn't answer last time.

 

[poadeleted20]

Here's a fun question. What are the iPad Foreflight weenies gonna do when the ADS-B mandate forces everyone to have a certified GPS/WAAS?

When a mandate requiring a WAAS GPS navigator comes out, let us know. Until then, all you're doing is speculating about something which has not happened and for which there is no reason to expect will happen.

 

[rbridges]

I love when goofs don't read or understand the subject.

In order to comply with ADS-B, view traffic, get the weather one must have not just a way to display the information, but also install a CERTIFIED GPS/WAAS. After doing all of that, what good is the funny little iPad/Foreflight setup when all the functionality is finally sitting in the panel?

Oh wait, that's a big problem right? Having to invest in current tech in those old lumbering Cessna 150s and 172s? The upgrade will cost more than the plane is worth, right?

By the way, if you havn't already done the upgrade, you may be sitting soon in violation. The backup queue is longer than avionics shops can handle now.

you don't have to be 2020 compliant to fly when the mandate takes effect. Just in certain airspaces. I have a WAAS GPS, and I still use my stratus/foreflight combo.

 

[poadeleted20]

I love when goofs don't read or understand the subject.

In order to comply with ADS-B, view traffic, get the weather one must have not just a way to display the information, but also install a CERTIFIED GPS/WAAS.

I hate it when you post false, incorrect, or untrue information. You really do need to do your research in some manner other than by posting something without regard for its factuality and then letting us educate you by correcting what you've posted.

As noted above, ADS-B out does not require installation of a GPS navigator (WAAS or otherwise), there is no requirement for ADS-B-in, and even ADS-B-out will not be required for all aircraft. I suggest that you read 14 CFR 91.225 and the FAA's web pages on ADS-B before posting further on this issue.

 

[AggieMike88]

I love when goofs don't read or understand the subject.

In order to comply with ADS-B, view traffic, get the weather one must have not just a way to display the information, but also install a CERTIFIED GPS/WAAS. After doing all of that, what good is the funny little iPad/Foreflight setup when all the functionality is finally sitting in the panel?

Likely still extremely useful since the table will always have more items than the panel mount. Panel mounts are not capable (nor expected) of holding FAA publications and the other parts of my aviation library.

I enjoy having my tablet and the fact that I can not only bring up ANY CONUS aviation chart, but also quickly get to the publication that explains what I'm looking at, what the symbology means, and what I need to do with it under varying circumstances.

Your arguments, as usual, are about as useful as a football bat.

Oh wait, that's a big problem right? Having to invest in current tech in those old lumbering Cessna 150s and 172s? The upgrade will cost more than the plane is worth, right?

Your tone is always waaay to antagonistic, and not appreciated.

By the way, if you havn't already done the upgrade, you may be sitting soon in violation. The backup queue is longer than avionics shops can handle now.

And what concern of this is to you?

 

[poadeleted20]

BTW, I know of no avionics shop anywhere which cannot provide before 2020 a 91.225-compliant installation ordered today. Perhaps CTLSi can show us which one is that backlogged -- I'll remember to stay away from that shop.

 

[TulsaWeather]

BTW, I know of no avionics shop anywhere which cannot provide before 2020 a 91.225-compliant installation ordered today. Perhaps CTLSi can show us which one is that backlogged -- I'll remember to stay away from that shop.

 

[Unit74]

For what it's worth, I got my Archer II back today with the GDL 88 installed. It was about $5500 all said and done.

Although it's true, you don't need a WAAS gps such as a GTN/GNS, you will be required to have an ADSB unit with a WAAS receiver. Most providers will have a UAT with a WAAS option. You cannot use the UAT WAAS source for a remote display either.

I know of more than a few guys who said they will not install one. They are all Class G type guys who also dread talking on the radio or even worse, having to speak with a controller. As long as you remain out of the controlled space, go for it. But I suspect that those with the occasional desire to go XC from here to there will at some point find themselves in a pickle with the FAA. Most certainly if that trip begins or terminates at a controlled field.

I will say this about Foreflight though. Prior to the UAT install, I would only get TIS B when in metro areas like LITor DFW. This was due to not being in the ADSB veil of another aircraft. On the flight home today, about 60 miles, I saw a significant amount more traffic I never new had been there.

What was cool, is that even if a plane was not on ADsB out, but on radar, I was able to see it on my traffic screen. AND, since my plane is now the moving ADSB veil, my Foreflight also displayed the traffic whereas before, it only displayed when I was in someone else's veil.

 

[Unit74]

My shop said the FAA told them there were 5000 aircraft in their geographic area that will need the upgrade. That's pretty significant and I was one of the few who have actually already gone ahead and installed it. I don't see how an average size shop could be able to handle the flood that is coming.

 

[petrolero]

It's really a religious issue. High wing, low wing. Etc. One technical difference - WingX, FF, Garmin all use scans (PDFs?) of the FAA maps. Jepp has their own technology (vector graphics). As you zoom in, there's more detail because the mapping technology uses layers of data.

FF uses vector graphics now too, not scans.

I don't know of an ADS-B receiver GPS for $100. Sounds like the OP may be comparing apples (stratus) to Oranges (non-ADSB GPS).

I'd go with FF all day long. You don't really need to buy the newest Stratus since you're VFR there should be no need for the backup AHRS nonsense. Maybe get an older Stratus 2nd hand that still has the ADSB in.

IMHO the situational awareness of having up-to-date METARs and radar in flight gives tremendous confidence that I am not blundering into an area of buildups or worsening vis or whatever.

 

[Travis Colby]

Look at an iPad Mini too.

I found the mini is a much better size in the cockpit with a yoke mount (and is easier to pop out and carry out at destination too)

Does ForeFlight still have full functionality on the Mini? I can't find that info on their website.

 

[Travis Colby]

maybe he's renting?

Bingo.

 

[TulsaWeather]

Does ForeFlight still have full functionality on the Mini? I can't find that info on their website.

I've not determined any difference in functionality (other than a smaller screen).

 

[poadeleted20]

My shop said the FAA told them there were 5000 aircraft in their geographic area that will need the upgrade. That's pretty significant and I was one of the few who have actually already gone ahead and installed it. I don't see how an average size shop could be able to handle the flood that is coming.

There's about 230,000 total aircraft out there, and that includes the ballons, gliders, and no-electric Cubs and Champs as well as folks in the boonies who don't even need a transponder now. I can't imagine where you could possibly be located that there's only one avionics shop available to cover 5000 airplanes with no other shop to share the load. Further, we've still got 5 more years to get it done. I'm sure that if you wait until Fall 2019 to sign up, you may have to wait in line, but my observation is that folks wanting to get equipped today are not having any wait beyond the typical couple of weeks for any avionics installations.

 

[poadeleted20]

Does ForeFlight still have full functionality on the Mini? I can't find that info on their website.

Yes. In fact, that's what I've been running for the last eight months. Further, it runs a whole lot better on my mini Retina with the A7 chip than it did on my full size iPad 1 with the original A4 chip.

 

[Cykoguy]

My shop said the FAA told them there were 5000 aircraft in their geographic area that will need the upgrade. That's pretty significant and I was one of the few who have actually already gone ahead and installed it. I don't see how an average size shop could be able to handle the flood that is coming.

Simple supply and demand. If they want to remain with the status quo they may charge more to compensate for the increased demand. Another possibility would be to hire more techs/work longer hours and still could charge more depending on demand.

I agree it is in aircraft owners best interest to not wait until the end to get it done. On the other hand what if cheaper, lighter, simpler units come out before between now and then?

Back to the topic on hand I have used both Garmin Pilot and Foreflight. IMO they both top notch programs that are easy to use and I would stick to one of the two. Sometime in the next year or so I hope to get a Stratus 2 but until then will continue using my XGPS150, I think they are less than $100 now.

 

[flyingron]

Does ForeFlight still have full functionality on the Mini? I can't find that info on their website.

I can't see why it wouldn't. They'd have to go out of their way to make it NOT work. The biggest concern is that when Apple drops iOS support for your device. This happened with my iPad 1 which means I've been stuck in the past there (though the map/chart updates still work). My iPhone which is running iOS7 now gets the advantage of the new functionality.

 

[rbridges]

Yes. In fact, that's what I've been running for the last eight months. Further, it runs a whole lot better on my mini Retina with the A7 chip than it did on my full size iPad 1 with the original A4 chip.

I went from an ipad 1 to an ipad mini, also. What a difference in speed. Foreflight has gotten to the point where the original ipad is sluggish. IIRC, they are no longer supporting it with upgraded software.

Personally, I like the mini b/c it fits the yoke perfectly in my mooney.