ForeFlight on Iphone Or Ipad Mini

[evapilotaz]

I download the trial version of Foreflight on my Iphone 5. It works ok on my cell phone for my first time use. I would like to hear from others using foreflight on their Iphone? What is your experience like?


What if I buy a IPad Mini without Cell services. What are my options to use foreflight with GPS tracking?

Most of my flights will be VFR only up to 200 miles from home airport. Mostly pleasure sight seeing flights.

Thanks for the help.

 

[ScottM]

I use my Foreflight on a MAXiPad and a MINiPad when in the airplane. I use it on my iPhone mostly to just check something out quickly before I am at the airport and sometimes to file a IFR flight plan. The iPhone version has it uses, but not as an inflight navigation tool IMHO

 

[rbridges]

You can use foreflight on 2 ipads and 1 phone (I believe but not 100% sure). I have an ipad mini without 4G and a disconnected iphone. I was using a bad elf as a gps source until my wife recently bought me a stratus 2.

I absolutely love having the ipad. I have a 430W, but I primarily use the ipad during flight because of the larger screen and better resolution.

 

[momalley]

I use a Dual XGPS150A with my wi-fi only iPad

 

[Sac Arrow]

I download the trial version of Foreflight on my Iphone 5. It works ok on my cell phone for my first time use. I would like to hear from others using foreflight on their Iphone? What is your experience like?


What if I buy a IPad Mini without Cell services. What are my options to use foreflight with GPS tracking?

Most of my flights will be VFR only up to 200 miles from home airport. Mostly pleasure sight seeing flights.

Thanks for the help.

The Ipad without cell service works fine, just no downloads or updates in flight. But, you do need the 3G model as the GPS is in the chipset, otherwise you have to buy a third party GPS adapter.

I use the full size Ipad, no data service, and the Iphone. I use the Iphone to get quick weather updates sometimes but that's about it. It's a nice backup too if your Ipad craps out.

 

[ScottM]

You can use foreflight on 2 ipads and 1 phone (I believe but not 100% sure).

That is true.

 

[JOhnH]

I find that I use the Ipad almost exclusively in the air or when planning a flight on the ground. For almost everything else I use the Iphone because I always have it with me.

Without WIFI, you will need an external GPS, like the Bad Elf. Alternatively, you could spend around $900 for a Stratus II and get GPS and ADS-B in as well. It's cheaper to get WIFI, but if you are paying for XM weather, the Stratus may be cost effective.

I spotted a whole bunch of planes last weekend after seeing them on the Ipad via Stratus that I would have otherwise not seen. It helped when approaching a couple of busy airports.

 

[ScottM]

Without WIFI, you will need an external GPS, like the Bad Elf.

You mean without 3G or 4G you will need the external GPS.

 

[JOhnH]

You mean without 3G or 4G you will need the external GPS.

That might be what I meant. It has been a long time since I did the research and made the purchase.

 

[flyingron]

I use foreflight in my phone primarily just to access the airport directory and METARs. Occasionally I'll look at the map. Works fine but the iPad is certainly a better idea for navigational use. As pointed out, the 3G/4G probably isn't too much of a deal if Apple hadn't tied the GPS onto the same chip. You'll have to balance the idea of using an external GPS (which has its advantages and disadvantages) to paying additional for the iPad with the cell/gps chip.

 

[evapilotaz]

Thanks for the replies.

I do not want to spend a boat load of money for this as I only fly short local trips. Also I do not want to pay for additional cell service to use foreflight. I like the Idea of this a Dual XGPS150A as long as it works. I like the Ipad mini well because its smaller over the full size IPad.

 

[N747JB]

You mean without 3G or 4G you will need the external GPS.

Yes, I learned the hard way, I bought an iPad 2 or 3 or whatever they called the dang thing and they guy at the Apple store insisted that I didn't need 4G for Foreflight to work. He was right it will work, but it won't show you where you are on the map! In Apple's defense, they did swap it out for a 4G model and I just paid the difference. I didn't activate the 4G for quite a while, but finally did, when I was having wifi issues at the beach. You do not have to have a 3/4G contract or activation, just have a capable iPad. Mine always works fine in the airplane without an external GPS. I use it in both high wing and low wing airplanes.

 

[JOhnH]

Thanks for the replies.

I do not want to spend a boat load of money for this as I only fly short local trips. Also I do not want to pay for additional cell service to use foreflight. I like the Idea of this a Dual XGPS150A as long as it works. I like the Ipad mini well because its smaller over the full size IPad.

I might be wrong about this, but I don't think you have to pay for cell service just because you bought the ability (although some salespeople will tell you otherwise). I believe you can still use the WIFI part with the service. But I am sure someone will confirm or dispute that.

 

[evapilotaz]

I might be wrong about this, but I don't think you have to pay for cell service just because you bought the ability (although some salespeople will tell you otherwise). I believe you can still use the WIFI part with the service. But I am sure someone will confirm or dispute that.

Ok if the device has the capabilities for Cell service I wont activate it. Gotcha!

I want GPS flight tracking without having the need for cell service. Verizon already gets plenty of money from me.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I might be wrong about this, but I don't think you have to pay for cell service just because you bought the ability (although some salespeople will tell you otherwise). I believe you can still use the WIFI part with the service. But I am sure someone will confirm or dispute that.

That is correct. You have to have a separate contract with your provider to use the 3G/4G.

Personally, I use a standard iPad 2 with Stratus for my GPS input and use my cell phone hotspot for wifi when local wifi isn't available on the ground.

 

[rbridges]

Thanks for the replies.

I do not want to spend a boat load of money for this as I only fly short local trips. Also I do not want to pay for additional cell service to use foreflight. I like the Idea of this a Dual XGPS150A as long as it works. I like the Ipad mini well because its smaller over the full size IPad.

IMO, you will get spoiled after a while. It was such a pain making sure I had current sectionals during PP training. Heaven forbid you want to fly to the next area--my airport usually didn't have one available. Now everything is at the click of a button.

 

[comanchepilot]

almost everyone eventually uses it on a mini - a simple search would have turned up lots of examples -

It makes zero sense to rely on 3G/4G inflight for 'updates.'

You want updates buy a Stratus.

 

[Sac Arrow]

almost everyone eventually uses it on a mini - a simple search would have turned up lots of examples -

It makes zero sense to rely on 3G/4G inflight for 'updates.'

You want updates buy a Stratus.

Certainly you wouldn't want to rely on it of course. But I rarely have a loss of data service, so I'll use it if I have it.

 

[Pilawt]

I use Foreflight (with a Stratus 1) with iPhone on the yoke mount for basic magenta-line following in my C172. On cross-country flights I keep the iPad 2 in the map pocket, ready for other tasks. That way I don't have to lose the active nav screen when I'm looking up airport data or checking enroute weather. For just stooging around the familiar local area, the iPhone is plenty.

I tried the iPad on a yoke mount, but it was too big and heavy. It covered too much of the panel, and its mass was annoyingly noticeable at times, such as in crosswind landings. The Mini might be a nice compromise, but I haven't tried one yet.

 

[evapilotaz]

almost everyone eventually uses it on a mini - a simple search would have turned up lots of examples -

It makes zero sense to rely on 3G/4G inflight for 'updates.'

You want updates buy a Stratus.

I always use search before posting anything.

My questions is very specific so I thought.

In my situation should I just use a Iphone or should I invest in a Ipad mini with an External GPS source. This is the root of my question keeping in mind I fly local VFR within 200 miles radius.

 

[comanchepilot]

local VFR in a 200nm of Gilbert AZ? You can SEE that far!

I would NEVER rely on the internal iPad GPS for anything above 2000AGL - it simply is not that reliable. You will have 10000 posts telling that the aGPS chip is that and this etc etc etc - but you want proof? Take it up in an airliner or a GA airplane over 4000 or so AGL. The aGPS is worthless without input from the cell system . . .

You might get a good lock - and might not. If I were relying on a system for navigation, whether primary VFR, backup IFR/VFR etc- I'd get an external GPS.

Want one? I'll sell you my GPS150 bluetooth external for $55 including priority mail shipping.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I always use search before posting anything.

My questions is very specific so I thought.

In my situation should I just use a Iphone or should I invest in a Ipad mini with an External GPS source. This is the root of my question keeping in mind I fly local VFR within 200 miles radius.

If I were you I'd do the latter. If it were me though I'd pay a little bit more for the 3G enabled Ipad so you don't need to tote around another GPS device.

 

[Sac Arrow]

local VFR in a 200nm of Gilbert AZ? You can SEE that far!

I would NEVER rely on the internal iPad GPS for anything above 2000AGL - it simply is not that reliable. You will have 10000 posts telling that the aGPS chip is that and this etc etc etc - but you want proof? Take it up in an airliner or a GA airplane over 4000 or so AGL. The aGPS is worthless without input from the cell system . . .

You might get a good lock - and might not. If I were relying on a system for navigation, whether primary VFR, backup IFR/VFR etc- I'd get an external GPS.

Want one? I'll sell you my GPS150 bluetooth external for $55 including priority mail shipping.

Zero issues up to 10,000 feet.

 

[evapilotaz]

local VFR in a 200nm of Gilbert AZ? You can SEE that far!

.

I mean I wouldn't travel any distance most likely 200nm radius on any given flight.

 

[ScottM]

Ok if the device has the capabilities for Cell service I wont activate it. Gotcha!

I want GPS flight tracking without having the need for cell service. Verizon already gets plenty of money from me.

I have two iPads. One is activated for the cellular service, the other is not. The one that is not activated for cellular service is the main one I use in the airplane. I can confirm that you do not need it activated to work properly. The cellular capability is needed because that is what will get you the internal GPS functionality.

 

[evapilotaz]

I have two iPads. One is activated for the cellular service, the other is not. The one that is not activated for cellular service is the main one I use in the airplane. I can confirm that you do not need it activated to work properly. The cellular capability is needed because that is what will get you the internal GPS functionality.

Scott do you have something connected externally to your Ipad without Cellular for GPS functions? Thanks.

 

[Wbauman]

I've looked at foreflight on my iphone on a commercial flight and it showed 32000 feet and airspeed. I've done it several times flying commercial and it's always worked.

I usually use my iphone while flying local and ipad for longer flights

 

[GeorgeC]

I had a 4G-capable iPad mini without a data plan. The internal gps worked great. The highest I had it was 17,000. High wing, low wing, bubble canopy, spam can, composite, whatever; it Just Worked.

 

[Sac Arrow]

The only thing a data stream gets you with the internal GPS is more accurate location, since the Iphone/Ipad location system uses multiple sources. But it's more than accurate enough for navigational purposes.

 

[evapilotaz]

I've looked at foreflight on my iphone on a commercial flight and it showed 32000 feet and airspeed. I've done it several times flying commercial and it's always worked.

I usually use my iphone while flying local and ipad for longer flights

Maybe I will just use my Iphone for now and see how I like it for local flights.
I haven't flown with it since I installed it but I will this weekend. I do not have a paid subscription with foreflight yet.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Thanks for the replies.

I do not want to spend a boat load of money for this as I only fly short local trips. Also I do not want to pay for additional cell service to use foreflight. I like the Idea of this a Dual XGPS150A as long as it works. I like the Ipad mini well because its smaller over the full size IPad.

You don't need cell service.

You probably want a GPS source of some kind. Your options for that are:

1) Buy an iPad with 3G/4G cellular capability, which will have a built-in GPS. $130, gives you the option to add cell service if you can't find WiFi and need a data update somewhere. Also gives you the option to check weather from anywhere, which is very nice.
2) Buy an external GPS. ~$99 plus shipping, and another battery to keep charged.
3) Buy a Stratus. ~$800 but gives you traffic and weather in flight with no subscription fees. Probably overkill in your case, UNLESS you're flying an airplane equipped with ADS-B Out in which case it might be worthwhile for the traffic.

I would NEVER rely on the internal iPad GPS for anything above 2000AGL - it simply is not that reliable. You will have 10000 posts telling that the aGPS chip is that and this etc etc etc - but you want proof? Take it up in an airliner or a GA airplane over 4000 or so AGL. The aGPS is worthless without input from the cell system . . .

Simply not true. Want proof? Do exactly as comanchepilot says. I used an iPad with its internal GPS in flight for years (usually use the Stratus GPS now). I had exactly ONE issue with it, solved with a reboot.

aGPS does not need input from the cell system, the cell system simply allows you to get a faster lock when the device doesn't know where it is. If you turn it on prior to takeoff you'll be fine. If you turn it off, fly several hundred miles, and turn it back on above 10,000 feet you may not get a fast lock. However, this is far from how most people use them. Mine's on from startup to shutdown.

Older devices could lose their lock at 250+ knots up in the flight levels, but that doesn't seem to be a problem any more, and I doubt that applies to anyone going 200nm VFR anyway.

The only thing a data stream gets you with the internal GPS is more accurate location, since the Iphone/Ipad location system uses multiple sources. But it's more than accurate enough for navigational purposes.

Also somewhat misleading - Despite what the dialog boxes may say, the only thing that WiFi or cellular signal gets you is a *faster* initial location. Once they've got a GPS lock, it's as accurate without any other signals as it is with them.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Maybe I will just use my Iphone for now and see how I like it for local flights.
I haven't flown with it since I installed it but I will this weekend. I do not have a paid subscription with foreflight yet.

I'm not sure if you can download data to your device for use in flight if you don't have a subscription. It'll work fine on the ground where you have an Internet connection, but the trial may not work for you in the air.

Try rebooting the phone, putting it in Airplane mode and then pinch/zoom along your intended route of flight to see if you can still get the data you need.

 

[denverpilot]

2 iPads one phone here. All work fine. Phone is way too small for anything but emergency use.

 

[Sac Arrow]

You don't need cell service.

You probably want a GPS source of some kind. Your options for that are:

1) Buy an iPad with 3G/4G cellular capability, which will have a built-in GPS. $130, gives you the option to add cell service if you can't find WiFi and need a data update somewhere. Also gives you the option to check weather from anywhere, which is very nice.
2) Buy an external GPS. ~$99 plus shipping, and another battery to keep charged.
3) Buy a Stratus. ~$800 but gives you traffic and weather in flight with no subscription fees. Probably overkill in your case, UNLESS you're flying an airplane equipped with ADS-B Out in which case it might be worthwhile for the traffic.



Simply not true. Want proof? Do exactly as comanchepilot says. I used an iPad with its internal GPS in flight for years (usually use the Stratus GPS now). I had exactly ONE issue with it, solved with a reboot.

aGPS does not need input from the cell system, the cell system simply allows you to get a faster lock when the device doesn't know where it is. If you turn it on prior to takeoff you'll be fine. If you turn it off, fly several hundred miles, and turn it back on above 10,000 feet you may not get a fast lock. However, this is far from how most people use them. Mine's on from startup to shutdown.

Older devices could lose their lock at 250+ knots up in the flight levels, but that doesn't seem to be a problem any more, and I doubt that applies to anyone going 200nm VFR anyway.



Also somewhat misleading - Despite what the dialog boxes may say, the only thing that WiFi or cellular signal gets you is a *faster* initial location. Once they've got a GPS lock, it's as accurate without any other signals as it is with them.

I thought they used cell tower triangulation if available?

 

[evapilotaz]

I'm not sure if you can download data to your device for use in flight if you don't have a subscription. It'll work fine on the ground where you have an Internet connection, but the trial may not work for you in the air.

Try rebooting the phone, putting it in Airplane mode and then pinch/zoom along your intended route of flight to see if you can still get the data you need.

I have driven with the Iphone foreflight installed and see GPS tracking works in the Car without Wifi Internet connection. I see the little blue airplane moving along in the direction I'm heading on the Highway.

 

[ScottM]

Scott do you have something connected externally to your Ipad without Cellular for GPS functions? Thanks.

I do, but I do not need to because I have the 3G. I have a Stratus 2. But I have that for the ADS-B capability more than the extra GPS precision. If I had a WiFi only iPad I would HAVE to have an external GPS.

 

[GeorgeC]

I used my iPhone4 for a VFR breakfast run to KESN last weekend. Stuck the RAM suction cup mount on the window and called it good. Worked great.

Maybe I will just use my Iphone for now and see how I like it for local flights.
I haven't flown with it since I installed it but I will this weekend. I do not have a paid subscription with foreflight yet.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I thought they used cell tower triangulation if available?

No. They have a database of the locations of cell towers and they can get the time from the cell tower as well. That allows them to know which satellites to look for immediately. That's how they get a fix so fast. If you take a GPS with no WiFi or Cellular capability out of the box, it usually takes minutes for it to tune into enough satellites to figure out where it is. By starting with rough position (from the tower database) and time, the phone can immediately tune the GPS receiver to the channels for satellites it knows will be visible.

The cell tower "triangulation" is a common misconception - Triangulation would require receiving usable signal from at least three towers, aGPS really only needs one (as long as it's a known tower and broadcasting a reasonably correct time).

EDIT: Forgot to mention WiFi. They can use WiFi in the same way, though I think they're getting the network info from the Internet in that case. The Google vans are listening for WiFi networks as they drive around as well as taking Street View pictures, and this is why. That's also why a device with no GPS and no cellular signal (such as an iPod Touch) can still know roughly where it is if it's in range of a known WiFi network.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I have driven with the Iphone foreflight installed and see GPS tracking works in the Car without Wifi Internet connection. I see the little blue airplane moving along in the direction I'm heading on the Highway.

You don't need WiFi to get GPS tracking or charts on the ground - The iPhone will download the charts as you move around through the 3G/4G Internet connection, and the internal GPS will track where you are.

What I meant is that in the air you won't be able to download charts, so you need to download them prior to takeoff. On the iPhone, go to the Menu in ForeFlight - the button for it is at the upper left of most screens - and then scroll all the way to the bottom. You'll see "Downloads" on the last screenful of the menu. Tap United States, choose Arizona, go back to the main Downloads screen, and tap the green Download button. If you can't do that, your device does not have the charts on it and is getting them solely from the Internet, which will not work in the air.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I use an ipad mini with foreflight, was keeping it rested on my knee but just got a RAM suction cup mounted X-grip which I can't wait to use.

I also have it on my iphone. Carry it for backup and use the phone to check METARs and TAFs.

In flight I use an XGPS160 for GPS, but I have once or twice used just the internal GPS to record my flight on CloudAhoy(usually if I'm riding with someone who's got a Garmin in the panel) with no loss of a signal.