Foreflight Basic vs. Pro

[MAKG1]

I never said I wanted to use all the GPS features, etc initially. I was pretty clear in my second post to you about that.

My main question had to do with whether all needed charts exist in the basic version. The same charts that are on paper, used the same way as if they were on paper. There's no logical difference between reading a chart on an Ipad or having it in your hand. Don't worry, I'll be thoroughly trained how to do things as manually as possible.

Yes, the basic version has all the charts. Just about every aviation planning app does. Plates and taxi diagrams just aren't georeferenced.

It's a good thing you're not trusting the GPS, because it isn't nearly as accurate as it claims. Real accuracy was a few miles in a recent trip, while it claimed no worse than 30m. The largest cross track error was just over 5 miles, and it varies slowly, indicating a probable uncompensated systematic, enough to bust.

Also, multiple devices aren't necessarily redundant. You'll need to schedule staggered updates and charging cycles for that. And if one display can't be read in bright sunlight, it's a fair bet the others won't be either.

The real concern for IFR is mounting the device. It's not acceptable to block instruments, or to make a lot of head movements, which excludes your lap and maybe the yoke. I find my mini has exactly one OK position in a 172, mounted on the yoke, vertical, as far to the right as possible to avoid blocking the tach.

 

[SPAJC]

I have the pro version...to my knowledge, the only difference is the geo-referenced charts and plates, hazard advisor and the synthetic vision. Geo-referencing is nice. I've never used the other two.


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[Witmo]

For me, the most difficult part of instrument training was learning to use the GPS. Garmin's interface was less than intuitive and not very well adapted for shooting multiple approaches n a training environment. I would be a lesser skilled instrument pilot if I hadn't been required to use a GPS especially now since GPS approaches are popping up everywhere.

 

[Tj1376]

I'll give you the same answer I gave my DPE for the IR checkride:

"I'll use my phone, since it *also* has a copy of Foreflight kept up-to-date on it."

And if that fails, I'll use the 496 in the plane. And if that fails, I'll use any resources I have available to me. Eventually, I suppose we could imagine enough failures where all I have left is the Cat and Duck. If those fail, I guess it's just my time...

Took the words right out of my virtual mouth. The joys of having both an iPad and an iPhone in the cockpit. Multiple GPS sources available with different battery sources!

TJ


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[midlifeflyer]

Took the words right out of my virtual mouth. The joys of having both an iPad and an iPhone in the cockpit. Multiple GPS sources available with different battery sources!

No kidding. When it comes to real IFR flight, most of have far more redundancy than anyone had in the "good old days of real pilots."

I don't recall if it was on this board but there was a recent discussion of how many GPSes people had in the cockpit. Just limiting it to things with some aviation functionality, most reported at least 3 - a panel mount with moving map, a tablet used as a primary EFB, and something that functioned as a backup EFB.

 

[jesse]

Yes, the basic version has all the charts. Just about every aviation planning app does. Plates and taxi diagrams just aren't georeferenced.

It's a good thing you're not trusting the GPS, because it isn't nearly as accurate as it claims. Real accuracy was a few miles in a recent trip, while it claimed no worse than 30m. The largest cross track error was just over 5 miles, and it varies slowly, indicating a probable uncompensated systematic, enough to bust.

Also, multiple devices aren't necessarily redundant. You'll need to schedule staggered updates and charging cycles for that. And if one display can't be read in bright sunlight, it's a fair bet the others won't be either.

The real concern for IFR is mounting the device. It's not acceptable to block instruments, or to make a lot of head movements, which excludes your lap and maybe the yoke. I find my mini has exactly one OK position in a 172, mounted on the yoke, vertical, as far to the right as possible to avoid blocking the tach.

Uh cross track error indicates you're flying several miles off the course you planned in Foreflight not that the GPS is off by several miles.

I have flown much IFR with an iPad sitting on my lap. That's also where basically all my instruments students have placed it as well.

 

[Unit74]

Just for the record, I'm not a real pilot. I have 3 GPS' and use them all the time, almost exclusively.


You guys make me chuckle just as much as the ones who say if you can't buy it cash, you don't deserve to buy it. Maybe it's time you shook the mold off and accepted aviation in the glass world.

 

[murphey]

Just for the record, I'm not a real pilot. I have 3 GPS' and use them all the time, almost exclusively.


You guys make me chuckle just as much as the ones who say if you can't buy it cash, you don't deserve to buy it. Maybe it's time you shook the mold off and accepted aviation in the glass world.

I'd love to have one certified GPS. But the price tag for a 430W is over $8K (installed) and $13K for the 650. Now let's add on another $4K for the ADS-B (hoping this price will drop in the next 3 years) and all of a sudden, just these two technologies are more than 50% of the value of the cherokee.

 

[azure]

I have flown much IFR with an iPad sitting on my lap. That's also where basically all my instruments students have placed it as well.

Me too -- in fact all of my solo training flights, and two IPCs. The only time the tablet goes onto the seat is during takeoff and especially during landing, since I sit high enough that it interferes with pulling the yoke far enough back.

I don't see a problem with iPad in the lap -- it's a lot better than a yoke mount that blocks some of the instruments. BTDT.

 

[James331]

I'd love to have one certified GPS. But the price tag for a 430W is over $8K (installed) and $13K for the 650. Now let's add on another $4K for the ADS-B (hoping this price will drop in the next 3 years) and all of a sudden, just these two technologies are more than 50% of the value of the cherokee.

Where are you getting a 430W INSTALLED for 8k?

 

[James331]

Just for the record, I'm not a real pilot. I have 3 GPS' and use them all the time, almost exclusively.


You guys make me chuckle just as much as the ones who say if you can't buy it cash, you don't deserve to buy it. Maybe it's time you shook the mold off and accepted aviation in the glass world.

Even for VFR?

 

[murphey]

Where are you getting a 430W INSTALLED for 8k?

Depending on how much I have to pay for the unit, local shop will install it for $1K but I also need the antenna and annunciator. So I figure the overall cost won't be over $8K.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Even for VFR?

Why not?

Some years ago, a rental airplane had an engine out emergency. The emergency landing was successful, in a field. The same reachable dustance away was a private runway, one of those extremely difficult to see unless you knew exactly where to look. School had a policy of no GOS on training flights. Ended up costing the school.

Yeah, yeah. We're all supposed to have perfect exact knowledge of our surroundings, yada yada yada. But why not take advantage of tools at your disposal?

 

[MAKG1]

Uh cross track error indicates you're flying several miles off the course you planned in Foreflight not that the GPS is off by several miles.

I have flown much IFR with an iPad sitting on my lap. That's also where basically all my instruments students have placed it as well.

Umm, I know what cross track error means.

In this case it does describe the tablet's GPS error because the tablet was not controlling the airplane. I will never use a tablet as primary nav.

If I know I'm on course by other means, and the tablet reports a 5 nm cross track error, the tablet is wrong by at least 5 miles. Even if it says it's good to 30m.

 

[kenjr]

As a IFR STUDENT, you need to leave the iPad at home.

Once you get your ticket, the pro version is what I use, being able to use GPS on the plates is a great advantage, also the SV add on should be free, but is still worth the extra 25 bucks.

This is ignorant advice. Learn on what you are going to be using to fly in the cockpit - especially IFR. As a VFR student pilot there's pretty much no reason to bring the iPad in until you're at the XC stage...in which case you wouldn't use them for the required but perhaps use them on an extra XC that you'd fly to acclimate yourself with the materials. My DPE and I talked EFB stuff on my PPL checkride for a while - including the Stratus. He let me use ForeFlight for all my weather briefing and even asked how I'd plot my course/NavLog in Foreflight.