For you Mac lovers

[EdFred]

http://webpages.charter.net/edfred/mac.wmv

Enjoy

Some language, but can you blame him?

 

[Iceman]

Thanks Ed I needed that!

 

[HPNPilot1200]

http://webpages.charter.net/edfred/mac.wmv

Enjoy

Some language, but can you blame him?

Isn't that just the best video? I've seen it many times before and each time have enjoyed it.

Thanks for a needed laugh,
Jason

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Youre a brave man Ed, those mac lovers are rabid, my b.i.l. is one and he is adamant. Gotta give him credit though he put his money where his mouth is with all that stock he has. I never could get one to do what I need, that is... interact with the rest of the world.

 

[fgcason]

That sounds like something from the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

...Just another reason on why I still love my old Apple IIe. Unlike Macs and PC's and whatever else, it's completely totally honest and doesn't have a mean IC in it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Enjoy

Some language, but can you blame him?

Game on!

Actually, it's sad. The guy's simply jealous. I can tell by what he's saying that he's never actually used a Mac! Did a good job of writing a humorous script though.

Now if he'd used a Mac, there might be more to the video than just some guy standing there b!+ching. You know, production value.

OBTW:

[ShookBook:~] shook% uptime
3:24 up 21 days, 10:39, 2 users, load averages: 1.02 0.78 0.52

Looks like only three weeks since I've rebooted for anything (software update I think). I wish it had a way to keep track of time since the last crash. Since upgrading to OS X several years ago, I think I have had two crashes (both early on, might have even been a beta version still) that required a full reboot. My brother took one of his two Macs and left it running w/o reboot (no updates!) to see how long he could go on uptime. He was well over 700 days when he finally had to give it back to his employer in exchange for a new one!

Signed,

Rabid Mac User (since 1986!) who hates to take these things so seriously, but can't stand the level of misinformation floating around about the best computers on the market.

 

[SkyHog]

Good video - it speaks the truth. What kind of operating system doesn't automatically copy stuff when you drag and drop it....ugh.

Don't know about the crashing tho....

 

[EdFred]

I've got a compaq here at the office that has been running non stop since 1997, and the only time it has been rebooted or had a problem is when the power has gone off.

 

[Frank Browne]

Signed,

Rabid Mac User (since 1986!) who hates to take these things so seriously, but can't stand the level of misinformation floating around about the best computers on the market.

I've been using Macs since about that time frame as well. Love mine. Much more intuitive (at least for me) than PC's.

 

[SkyHog]

Remember - those who can, program. Those who can't, use mac....

Ever try to write a program for the macintosh?

*Shudders*

 

[SJP]

Game on!

Actually, it's sad. The guy's simply jealous. I can tell by what he's saying that he's never actually used a Mac! Did a good job of writing a humorous script though.

Now if he'd used a Mac, there might be more to the video than just some guy standing there b!+ching. You know, production value.

OBTW:

[ShookBook:~] shook% uptime
3:24 up 21 days, 10:39, 2 users, load averages: 1.02 0.78 0.52

Looks like only three weeks since I've rebooted for anything (software update I think). I wish it had a way to keep track of time since the last crash. Since upgrading to OS X several years ago, I think I have had two crashes (both early on, might have even been a beta version still) that required a full reboot. My brother took one of his two Macs and left it running w/o reboot (no updates!) to see how long he could go on uptime. He was well over 700 days when he finally had to give it back to his employer in exchange for a new one!

Signed,

Rabid Mac User (since 1986!) who hates to take these things so seriously, but can't stand the level of misinformation floating around about the best computers on the market.

Oooh - I so agree.

We had a server that had racked up 1450+ days and change since it's last reboot.

Windows 2000 running on HP hardware. Unstable & unreliable right ?


If you don't mess with them, they pretty much go on forever.

 

[ScottM]

Game on!

Actually, it's sad. The guy's simply jealous. I can tell by what he's saying that he's never actually used a Mac! Did a good job of writing a humorous script though.

Now if he'd used a Mac, there might be more to the video than just some guy standing there b!+ching. You know, production value.

OBTW:

[ShookBook:~] shook% uptime
3:24 up 21 days, 10:39, 2 users, load averages: 1.02 0.78 0.52

Looks like only three weeks since I've rebooted for anything (software update I think). I wish it had a way to keep track of time since the last crash. Since upgrading to OS X several years ago, I think I have had two crashes (both early on, might have even been a beta version still) that required a full reboot. My brother took one of his two Macs and left it running w/o reboot (no updates!) to see how long he could go on uptime. He was well over 700 days when he finally had to give it back to his employer in exchange for a new one!

Signed,

Rabid Mac User (since 1986!) who hates to take these things so seriously, but can't stand the level of misinformation floating around about the best computers on the market.

Seems to me he has never really used a MAC. I use both and what he describes happens more on PC than the MAC.

 

[Frank Browne]

Seems to me he has never really used a MAC. I use both and what he describes happens more on PC than the MAC.

Using my PC at home is a constant battle with adware/spyware. Very aggrevating.

 

[fgcason]

Rabid Mac User (since 1986!) who hates to take these things so seriously, but can't stand the level of misinformation floating around about the best computers on the market.

Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out....relax. It'll be ok. It really will.

I don't think that was a personal attack on macs. I think he wrote that script specifically as an attack on computers in general even if he didn't realize it. He just needed a computer name to use in the plot and a mac probably torqued him off recently. Replace 'mac' with 'pc' 'ibm' or '____fill in the blank___' and the context of the script would not change except for a few minor system specific words...and it would still be true.

I know people that swear by macs that don't crash. I know people who swear at macs that do crash. Same goes for the PC series machines. Computers are not innocent, they're evil TV's out to make you crazy. Considering how convoluted these contraptions are nowadays with the increasingly incompetent programmers/designers (not everyone but way way too many of them) I'm extremely surprized the failure rate isn't much much much much much MUCH higher.

That said, I have an old 8088 and 80286 machine running DOS5/4dos: Zero failures, zero crashes since new in 1987/1988.
I also have an Apple IIe: Zero failures, zero crashes since new in 1984.
These machines are still run regularly. The only exceptions to the zero crashes is when I'm designing one off hand crafted never invented before custom software and/or hardware that eats itself during prototyping. Reset fixes the computer problem instantly. After final debug/rewiring the problem never happens again so that kind of stuff doesn't count since it is self inflicted problems independent from the system it was attached to.

Then there's the old reliable Whizwheel E6-B: Hand-me-down from dad: Zero failures, zero crashes, zero errors since new in 1956. Beat that.

As system complexity approaches infinity, mean time between failures approaches zero.

P.S. I have deliberately electrocuted computers before. They had it coming.
P.S.S. I fully intend to throw a computer out of an airplane one of these days. The event will be documented very well. I will sell copies of the tapes to anyone who wants them.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Good video - it speaks the truth. What kind of operating system doesn't automatically copy stuff when you drag and drop it....ugh.

WINDOWS!!! He's talking about dragging something to the desktop - Windows doesn't copy it either last I checked, it makes a shortcut!

Here's what the Mac does when you drag a file: If you drag it to another drive, it makes a copy. If you drag it somewhere else on the same drive, it is moved. (Who'd want to have to go back and delete files?) If you hold the option key, the above behaviors are reversed (and the pointer will always show what will happen, with a little + superimposed on it if a copy will be made.) Likewise, hold the command ("cloverleaf," "open apple") key and an alias ("shortcut" to you Windows folks) will be made, again with a tiny shortcut arrow superimposed on the pointer as you drag so that you know what's going to happen.

Don't know about the crashing tho....

What crashing? OS X has memory protection and all that. The *computer* does not crash. Applications can still crash (Sometimes happens to my browser if I open up 500+ pages at a time), but when they do, you get a message on the screen asking if you want to automagically report the crash to Apple, reopen the program, etc.

Oh, and no worries about spyware, viruses, etc. slowing your machine down and crashing it.

Back when I had a computer consulting business, everyone was surprised to learn that I was a Mac user. "But you're a computer geek, you know how to fix Windows, why don't you use it, everyone else does?" My answer: Because I want my computer to work for ME, not the other way around. Average time between callbacks for windows clients: Three weeks. Average time between callbacks for Mac clients: Six months.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Remember - those who can, program. Those who can't, use mac....

Ever try to write a program for the macintosh?

*Shudders*

Have YOU ever tried to write a program for the Mac? Or Windows, for that matter?

The Mac OS is supposedly WAY easier to program for than Windows (Caveat: I've never tried to write a Windows program). Sure, it's much easier to write a text-only program under Linux, but any time you're going to write a program for a GUI you're going to spend more time than a simple "hello world" text based program.

Remember, Mac OS X came from NextStep, which was known for its ease of development - They even had a flight simulator on NeXT that I was told was created *without a single line of code!* (I may have been the first person to land a plane successfully in it too. ) In fact, the OS routines you call when writing an OS X program all start with "NS".

 

[SJP]

WINDOWS!!! He's talking about dragging something to the desktop - Windows doesn't copy it either last I checked, it makes a shortcut!

Here's what the Mac does when you drag a file: If you drag it to another drive, it makes a copy. If you drag it somewhere else on the same drive, it is moved. (Who'd want to have to go back and delete files?) If you hold the option key, the above behaviors are reversed (and the pointer will always show what will happen, with a little + superimposed on it if a copy will be made.) Likewise, hold the command ("cloverleaf," "open apple") key and an alias ("shortcut" to you Windows folks) will be made, again with a tiny shortcut arrow superimposed on the pointer as you drag so that you know what's going to happen.

Try using ALT, CTRL or SHIFT when dragging/dropping in Windows - you'll get the same little pointer cues, and the same results. ALT makes a shortcut, CTRL toggles copy/cut.

Default behaviours differ between the Mac and Windows, but at least on mine, drag to another folder on the same drive moves the files, adding the CTRL key toggles to making a copy. ALT forces a shortcut to be made. Dragging to the desktop only makes shortcuts to certain types of files by default - when I was checking earlier, it moves most files to the desktop, except for those of registered applications (say, Word) for which it makes a shortcut instead (so that you don't have mutliple copies of the executable for an installed program)

 

[Brian Austin]

WINDOWS!!! He's talking about dragging something to the desktop - Windows doesn't copy it either last I checked, it makes a shortcut!

Here's what the Mac does when you drag a file: If you drag it to another drive, it makes a copy. If you drag it somewhere else on the same drive, it is moved. (Who'd want to have to go back and delete files?) If you hold the option key, the above behaviors are reversed (and the pointer will always show what will happen, with a little + superimposed on it if a copy will be made.) Likewise, hold the command ("cloverleaf," "open apple") key and an alias ("shortcut" to you Windows folks) will be made, again with a tiny shortcut arrow superimposed on the pointer as you drag so that you know what's going to happen.

What crashing? OS X has memory protection and all that. The *computer* does not crash. Applications can still crash (Sometimes happens to my browser if I open up 500+ pages at a time), but when they do, you get a message on the screen asking if you want to automagically report the crash to Apple, reopen the program, etc.

Oh, and no worries about spyware, viruses, etc. slowing your machine down and crashing it.

Everything you just described is exactly how Windows XP operates, aside from key names...including application vs OS system crashes. The only BSoD I've seen in XP/2003 has been during hard drive failures, which don't care what OS you're running.

Macs have good features. So does a decent XP system. Depends on the setup, use and maintenance on either system. I can crash a Mac with the right code...and I can set up a XP system to not have any issues with viruses, spyware, etc., regardless of where I visit.

The biggest problem isn't the machines....it's users.

 

[Greebo]

/agree Brian.

There is no such thing as an invulnerable computer.

If you want an invulnerable computer, you must first remove it from all power sources...

 

[deafsound]

funny stuff.
I always say that MAC folks can deal with PCs, but PC guys can't deal with MACs.
All computers are stupid if you ask me.

 

[SkyHog]

Have YOU ever tried to write a program for the Mac? Or Windows, for that matter?

Nope, never done either, I just like making references to things I have no knowledge on

What you are hearing from other people, is the same thing that people used to say about Amigas: "They're the best for graphics and music, anything else is pretender to the throne." That may have been true years ago, but its certainly not true anymore. The problem with Mac users is that they still use arguments from years back to support the Apple as being superior.

And no - programming for the mac is not easier, in fact, you have less control and less power with any language I've ever tried to use on the Macintosh.

And what about the most useless of any diagnostic device ever: The Sad Mac. What are you supposed to do to fix it? It gives no error message, it gives no help as to what caused the error. At lease in Windows, when you get a fatal error, it tells where what and where the problem is, not just a pathetic attempt at humor with no solution in sight. (for those who don't know what it is, when a Mac boots up, it shows a Smiling Macintosh. When something prohibits it from loading, you get a Frowning Macintosh).

 

[mikea]

Oooh - I so agree.

We had a server that had racked up 1450+ days and change since it's last reboot.

Windows 2000 running on HP hardware. Unstable & unreliable right ?


If you don't mess with them, they pretty much go on forever.

How did the other users on your network like getting all of those NIMDA and Code Red probes from that system?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The problem with Mac users is that they still use arguments from years back to support the Apple as being superior.

Such as?

And no - programming for the mac is not easier, in fact, you have less control and less power with any language I've ever tried to use on the Macintosh.

Your statement doesn't make sense. What are you talking about? What language? What are you comparing it with? I hereby throw a blue screen of death at you!

And what about the most useless of any diagnostic device ever: The Sad Mac. What are you supposed to do to fix it? It gives no error message, it gives no help as to what caused the error.

The Sad Mac did have two rows of

ARGH!!! I'm actually posting this from a PC at work, and some damn spyware thing just made the mouse start jumping all over the screen, windows opening and closing themselves... I think Bill's watching!

Anyway, to complete my thought, the Sad Mac had two rows of hex codes underneath, basically the same type of stuff you find on the blue screen of death. Besides, I don't think sad macs exist any more (nor do happy macs). Finally, the only thing that caused sad macs was catastrophic hardware failure. In all my years of using and supporting Macs, I never saw a sad mac that wasn't caused by me pushing the right buttons on bootup to purposefully bring it up and see what the latest machine would do in an error situation - For instance, the earliest Power Macs would play a wonderful digital car-crash-with-broken-glass noise when you brought up the sad mac.

[/quote] At lease in Windows, when you get a fatal error, it tells where what and where the problem is, not just a pathetic attempt at humor with no solution in sight. (for those who don't know what it is, when a Mac boots up, it shows a Smiling Macintosh. When something prohibits it from loading, you get a Frowning Macintosh).[/QUOTE]

*mutters something about using arguments from years back to support your platform of choice*

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I don't think that was a personal attack on macs. I think he wrote that script specifically as an attack on computers in general even if he didn't realize it.

Well, he shoulda said "Windows" then... But then it wouldn't be passed around nearly as much, 'cuz it'd be true, and people don't like to bash themselves or their own possessions.

See the all-out death match, me vs. Nick, this year at Gaston's!

(Nick may well kick my ass, but I'll still have a better computer. )

 

[Flyboy]

We used to use macs for typsetting and I'm not sure it it still applies but our problems went somthing like this.

Apple releases new OP system level.

Programs won't run with current op system, have to spend hundreds of dollars buying software upgrades.

--or-

Recieve free upgrade from program A

Upgrade needs latest operating system

Spend hundreds of dollars upgrading other software that now won't run on current system.

Then we looked at windoze. (at that time it was the horrid 3.1 or so) and all the same software said "minimum dos 3.0 and windows 3.1 required". We continued upgrading windows over the years, usually when buying new PCs and only until the last couple of windoze versions did we HAVE to upgrade a software package.

My latest Apple foray has been Ipod nanos for the kids. I love the nano device itself, but the itunes software rquired to communicate with it is horrid compared to other windows programs I use with my non apple mp3 player.

 

[SJP]

How did the other users on your network like getting all of those NIMDA and Code Red probes from that system?

Well, Nimda and Code Red both relied on specific methods of infection - none of which happened to be open on that box - so it never got infected.

 

[Dakota Duce]

For all you Mac lovers. You do know what the letters "Mac" stand for, don't you?

Make Another Choice

Yep.. When it come to computers, it's the best advice I've heard of yet. By the way.. and just so you know, me and my "Win 2000 Pro" operating system have had exactly ZERO problems when I installed it many years ago.

Dakota Duce

"May All Your Flights Be Of Good Weather!"

 

[deafsound]

For all you Mac lovers. You do know what the letters "Mac" stand for, don't you?

Make Another Choice

Yep.. When it come to computers, it's the best advice I've heard of yet. By the way.. and just so you know, me and my "Win 2000 Pro" operating system have had exactly ZERO problems when I installed it many years ago.

Dakota Duce

"May All Your Flights Be Of Good Weather!"

Oh, c'mon now. You know what PC stands for, right? Piece o Crap.

 

[SkyHog]

The Mac vs. PC debate is one that will go one forever, like politics. errr....rather, I should say it will go on until Apple finally realizes that without the iPod they've got nothing and they stop making Macs.

Here's the easiest way to explain my choice against Mac:

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 - PC Only
Half Life 2 - PC Only
Windows Media File Format - PC Only
Adobe Premier Pro - PC Only
World of Warcraft - PC Only
Call of Duty - PC Only
Acid Studio - PC Only

And the list goes on and on - here's one:

Many tasks are completed much faster without using the mouse, and using keyboard shortcuts instead. When filling out forms that have a drop down box, for example, an address form with the state in a drop down box, its much faster to tab to the drop down and press "N" 5 times to get New Mexico than it is to click on the down arrow and scroll down to New Mexico. Try it on a Mac sometime - tab skips over the Freaking Dropdown box!! ARGH!

I should also point out that everyone's arguments about Macs being more stable will end now that Mac has gone to the Intel chipset also - now they're running the same hardware.....good move Apple.

There are no hard feeling towards anyone who disagrees with me (even you Kent ) but you have to see that for the common user who wants to run whatever he wants, the PC is the way to go....emulators aren't perfect, so Virtual PC is not the solution.

Mac only software:

Crap like SimpleText

Thats about it.

 

[Brian Austin]

Adobe Premier Pro - PC Only

Wow. That surprised me. Adobe was a big Apple supporter for as long as I can remember. Wonder if they got ticked off at Apple's move into photo editing with Aperture? I just reviewed their product list and noticed several other Adobe mainstays that are now PC only, too.

 

[deafsound]

.

Here's the easiest way to explain my choice against Mac:

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 - PC Only
Half Life 2 - PC Only
Windows Media File Format - PC Only
Adobe Premier Pro - PC Only
World of Warcraft - PC Only
Call of Duty - PC Only
Acid Studio - PC Only



Mac only software:

Crap like SimpleText

Thats about it.

I agree that gaming is better on a PC, but you probably haven't watched a movie or listened to a record in a really really long time that wasn't put into either Avid or Pro Tools--in a mac. They have pro tools for PCs, but it doesn't work as well---in fact, it's almost stupid on a PC.
I like razzing people who love "their" computer.
I am typing into a PC right now, BTW, but when it's time to make the music happen, it's all mac, and I know all the keyboard shortcuts.

 

[mikea]

I just ordered another Mac. I'll have a 12" Powerbook in my pocket in a week or so.

I figger it'll fit the mission of having something wireless internetable (WiFi and via Bluetooth / cell phone net link) for on da road and in duh air, and can serve to do real work by connecting to an external display.

I think I'll be putting my Compaq laptop back on eBay from wence it came.

I guess I should turn on my screamer Windows XP system once in a while to keep the fan motors lubricated.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

until Apple finally realizes that without the iPod they've got nothing and they stop making Macs.

Nick, man, you're funny. Where do you get this stuff?

Here's the easiest way to explain my choice against Mac:

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 - PC Only

Sucks anyway - Try X-Plane, which, BTW, is developed on Macs but is platform-agnostic so you can run it from Linux while you're having your OS identity crisis.

Windows Media File Format - PC Only

Really? How did I see the Mac-bashing movie in the first place then? It's a common misconception that M$ doesn't support the Mac very well, but I'm running Windows Media Player 9.0 for Mac. It's been on the Mac for quite a while, as has Office (Word and Excel were originally written for the Mac, and were out on the Mac long before Windows even existed). M$ isn't dumb - They make a lot of money on the Mac. Low support costs.

Half Life 2 - PC Only
Adobe Premier Pro - PC Only
World of Warcraft - PC Only
Call of Duty - PC Only

I will concede one point: Hard-core gamers should not buy a Mac. There aren't nearly as many games on the Mac. However, there ARE quite a few good games. You know the guys who developed Halo for XBox and Windoze and all? Bungie Software. Their original hit product was a game called Marathon, which was Mac-only. Marathon 2 was also Mac-only, IIRC, then they wrote Marathon Infinity and several subsequent games cross-platform before M$ bought them. Kudos to them for making Halo very cross-platform! How many games do you ever see on both consoles and PC's?

But, my life is too valuable to waste time on games (and viruses, and Windows in general ) so it really doesn't affect me. BTW, I think you may have erred on one of the games above. I forget which it is, but one of the major Internet games (not sure if it's World of Warcraft or something else) *is* available for the Mac.

And the list goes on and on - here's one:

Here's some more for you...

Ad-Aware: PC Only
Spybot: PC Only
Panda antivirus: PC only
Countless thousands of viruses, trojans, and spyware programs: PC only

Many tasks are completed much faster without using the mouse, and using keyboard shortcuts instead. When filling out forms that have a drop down box, for example, an address form with the state in a drop down box, its much faster to tab to the drop down and press "N" 5 times to get New Mexico than it is to click on the down arrow and scroll down to New Mexico. Try it on a Mac sometime - tab skips over the Freaking Dropdown box!! ARGH!

Easily solved. System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts. There is a pair of radio buttons at the bottom. Switch it from "Text boxes and lists only" to "all controls."

I should also point out that everyone's arguments about Macs being more stable will end now that Mac has gone to the Intel chipset also - now they're running the same hardware.....good move Apple.

Stability has a LOT more to do with software than hardware (Compare Linux vs. Windoze on the same hardware, for instance). This is Apple's second major architecture change with Macs, the first being the switch from Motorola's 680x0 architecture to PowerPC in 1994. I'm glad that Apple has the versatility to use whatever hardware will work the best, and the time has come to make the switch.

Word is that the new Macs boot up so fast that the Apple only flashes on the screen for a fraction of a second! And IBM thought that Apple was "stuck" with them, so they were paying too much attention to the game console chips and not enough to the ones that Apple wanted (hence, no G5 PowerBook). They were sorely mistaken, and they got "Steved!" One thing you DON'T do is mess with Steve Jobs, he's not known for taking that sort of thing well.

There are no hard feeling towards anyone who disagrees with me (even you Kent )

None here either, as soon as you admit that Macs aren't the antichrist.

but you have to see that for the common user who wants to run whatever he wants, the PC is the way to go....emulators aren't perfect, so Virtual PC is not the solution.

Actually, I think it's the other way around. The common user will do just fine with a Mac. The "common user" is going to be doing word processing, e-mail, and web surfing, and can go either way with no problems. (Well, except for the viruses and spyware )

While there are more software titles available on Windows, Just the fact that you can get 10 spreadsheets for Windows and two for the Mac is meaningless - Everyone's using Excel anyway! It's the people who need something highly specialized that might actually need a PC. In the last 8 years or so, I've only needed to use Virtual PC for some specialized EE software (SystemView and PSpice) and the Garmin 430 simulator.

The only other problem I have is the lack of good flight software on the Mac. Niche market squared = lack of titles. There's some flight planners and some logbooks and that sort of thing, but IMNSHO they all suck. I plan to rectify that situation myself one of these days, but unless I find some investors it won't be very soon.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

We used to use macs for typsetting and I'm not sure it it still applies but our problems went somthing like this.

Apple releases new OP system level.

Programs won't run with current op system, have to spend hundreds of dollars buying software upgrades.

--or-

Recieve free upgrade from program A

Upgrade needs latest operating system

Spend hundreds of dollars upgrading other software that now won't run on current system.

Ron,

That says "Quark" all over it. They were the biggest pain in the butt piece of junk software (and company) there was, but they pretty much had a lock on the high-end page-layout market until Adobe came out with InDesign, which is now, of course, causing Quark some major headaches because the rest of us are tired of them.

I once installed a lab of about 24 computers which had to have Quark on them. The current version of Quark was something like 6.2.2, and the "install" process went like this:

1) Install Quark 6.0
2) Install Quark 6.1 Update. Have to launch 6.0 on every computer and match the update install discs to the specific copy (serial #) of Quark that's on each particular computer.
3) Install Quark 6.2 update, matching serial numbers again.
4) Install Quark 6.2.1 update. No serial number match this time.
5) Install Quark 6.2.2 update, guess what - gotta match 'em again.

I think it took about 2.5 days just for the Quark install. Inexcusable.

The other problem Quark used to cause people is that it "phoned home" and looked all over the internet for a copy running the same serial number. It continued to do this as it ran. When ISDN part-time connections were popular, a lot of small companies were surprised to get a bill for several thousand dollars their first month - Yup, Quark kept reconnecting it. Ugh.

So, I make no excuses for them. (They're using hardware dongles now. Sheesh.) But, realize that this is a special case and has nothing to do with Apple. Most software works just fine after a system update.

My latest Apple foray has been Ipod nanos for the kids. I love the nano device itself, but the itunes software rquired to communicate with it is horrid compared to other windows programs I use with my non apple mp3 player.

Funny you should mention that. When I first started using MP3's, I used a great piece of software called SoundJam Pro. When OS X came out, SoundJam was in beta for OS X when Apple hired the author to write iTunes. So, SJP for OS X was never finished, and I was ****ed 'cuz I hated iTunes. Now, it's gotten much better - As long as you're in Browse view. The instantaneous (and I mean it!) search box is very cool.

 

[Iceman]

Nick, man, you're funny. Where do you get this stuff?



Sucks anyway - Try X-Plane, which, BTW, is developed on Macs but is platform-agnostic so you can run it from Linux while you're having your OS identity crisis.



Really? How did I see the Mac-bashing movie in the first place then? It's a common misconception that M$ doesn't support the Mac very well, but I'm running Windows Media Player 9.0 for Mac. It's been on the Mac for quite a while, as has Office (Word and Excel were originally written for the Mac, and were out on the Mac long before Windows even existed). M$ isn't dumb - They make a lot of money on the Mac. Low support costs.



I will concede one point: Hard-core gamers should not buy a Mac. There aren't nearly as many games on the Mac. However, there ARE quite a few good games. You know the guys who developed Halo for XBox and Windoze and all? Bungie Software. Their original hit product was a game called Marathon, which was Mac-only. Marathon 2 was also Mac-only, IIRC, then they wrote Marathon Infinity and several subsequent games cross-platform before M$ bought them. Kudos to them for making Halo very cross-platform! How many games do you ever see on both consoles and PC's?

But, my life is too valuable to waste time on games (and viruses, and Windows in general ) so it really doesn't affect me. BTW, I think you may have erred on one of the games above. I forget which it is, but one of the major Internet games (not sure if it's World of Warcraft or something else) *is* available for the Mac.



Here's some more for you...

Ad-Aware: PC Only
Spybot: PC Only
Panda antivirus: PC only
Countless thousands of viruses, trojans, and spyware programs: PC only



Easily solved. System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Keyboard Shortcuts. There is a pair of radio buttons at the bottom. Switch it from "Text boxes and lists only" to "all controls."



Stability has a LOT more to do with software than hardware (Compare Linux vs. Windoze on the same hardware, for instance). This is Apple's second major architecture change with Macs, the first being the switch from Motorola's 680x0 architecture to PowerPC in 1994. I'm glad that Apple has the versatility to use whatever hardware will work the best, and the time has come to make the switch.

Word is that the new Macs boot up so fast that the Apple only flashes on the screen for a fraction of a second! And IBM thought that Apple was "stuck" with them, so they were paying too much attention to the game console chips and not enough to the ones that Apple wanted (hence, no G5 PowerBook). They were sorely mistaken, and they got "Steved!" One thing you DON'T do is mess with Steve Jobs, he's not known for taking that sort of thing well.



None here either, as soon as you admit that Macs aren't the antichrist.



Actually, I think it's the other way around. The common user will do just fine with a Mac. The "common user" is going to be doing word processing, e-mail, and web surfing, and can go either way with no problems. (Well, except for the viruses and spyware )

While there are more software titles available on Windows, Just the fact that you can get 10 spreadsheets for Windows and two for the Mac is meaningless - Everyone's using Excel anyway! It's the people who need something highly specialized that might actually need a PC. In the last 8 years or so, I've only needed to use Virtual PC for some specialized EE software (SystemView and PSpice) and the Garmin 430 simulator.

The only other problem I have is the lack of good flight software on the Mac. Niche market squared = lack of titles. There's some flight planners and some logbooks and that sort of thing, but IMNSHO they all suck. I plan to rectify that situation myself one of these days, but unless I find some investors it won't be very soon.

Ron,

That says "Quark" all over it. They were the biggest pain in the butt piece of junk software (and company) there was, but they pretty much had a lock on the high-end page-layout market until Adobe came out with InDesign, which is now, of course, causing Quark some major headaches because the rest of us are tired of them.

I once installed a lab of about 24 computers which had to have Quark on them. The current version of Quark was something like 6.2.2, and the "install" process went like this:

1) Install Quark 6.0
2) Install Quark 6.1 Update. Have to launch 6.0 on every computer and match the update install discs to the specific copy (serial #) of Quark that's on each particular computer.
3) Install Quark 6.2 update, matching serial numbers again.
4) Install Quark 6.2.1 update. No serial number match this time.
5) Install Quark 6.2.2 update, guess what - gotta match 'em again.

I think it took about 2.5 days just for the Quark install. Inexcusable.

The other problem Quark used to cause people is that it "phoned home" and looked all over the internet for a copy running the same serial number. It continued to do this as it ran. When ISDN part-time connections were popular, a lot of small companies were surprised to get a bill for several thousand dollars their first month - Yup, Quark kept reconnecting it. Ugh.

So, I make no excuses for them. (They're using hardware dongles now. Sheesh.) But, realize that this is a special case and has nothing to do with Apple. Most software works just fine after a system update.

Quote:
My latest Apple foray has been Ipod nanos for the kids. I love the nano device itself, but the itunes software rquired to communicate with it is horrid compared to other windows programs I use with my non apple mp3 player.

Funny you should mention that. When I first started using MP3's, I used a great piece of software called SoundJam Pro. When OS X came out, SoundJam was in beta for OS X when Apple hired the author to write iTunes. So, SJP for OS X was never finished, and I was ****ed 'cuz I hated iTunes. Now, it's gotten much better - As long as you're in Browse view. The instantaneous (and I mean it!) search box is very cool.

Yeah I agree no time for games...

I spend about 1/5 the amount of time dealing with viruses etc that you Mac people spend defending/talking up your system.

 

[jesse]

Oh man... I could argue on all day here. I'll tell you what I use and why.

1.) I have two servers. One is based in Virginia in a data center. I use this primarily for business, my personal website, e-mail, and as a place to backup my dad offsite. My other server is local in my house, It's used for data backup. Both of these run Debian Linux. I can make Linux perform these tasks with minimal effort. It updates itself, and hasn't rebooted..since god knows how long. There hasn't been a security flaw that has effected the kernel for years.

2.) I have two desktop PCs. One of them runs Windows XP Pro. The reason I run Windows XP Prof on it is sometimes I just need something to WORK that I just bought or downloaded, I don't have time to dick around for hours trying to make it work in Linux. If it's something I use a lot I'll make it work in Linux, but for now it works OK on Windows. I also do a decent amount of consulting, which if you are going to be worth a crap you better understand all worlds. Windows, Linux/Unix, Mac. By understanding all of it you can actually get the task for the client done in the best way. As far as what OS this task would be best under, that varies.

3.) I had a MacMini that I borrowed and used it for a few months before I had to give it back. I plan on buying a PowerBook when I get some money again.


Basically what I'm saying is that one thing is not perfect for everything, understand and use everything and you will be a lot better off.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Yeah I agree no time for games...

I spend about 1/5 the amount of time dealing with viruses etc that you Mac people spend defending/talking up your system.

Yeah, but it's so much more fun than viruses.

Man, did I really write all that?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I also do a decent amount of consulting, which if you are going to be worth a crap you better understand all worlds. Windows, Linux/Unix, Mac. By understanding all of it you can actually get the task for the client done in the best way. As far as what OS this task would be best under, that varies.

Right on Jesse!

When I still had my business I had a pair of coloc servers. The main one was a Mac (various models as I upgraded, started at Workgroup Server 7250 and ended up G3/300 tower) and I ran WebStar, EIMS, QuickDNS Pro, and all the other stuff you'd normally see on a web server. Rock solid, never hacked, never crashed.

The second server was originally a Mac, but I traded it for an Apple Network Server 700. Big behemoth, the only OS's it was capable of running were AIX (IBM's UNIX) and LinuxPPC, which is what I ran on it. I only used it as a backup MX/DNS box for the most part, though I did have Apache running on it and had a couple of pages on it. It would have been cool to actually use all seven hot-swap SCSI drive bays and such, but that was kind of overkill for my mission!

Every OS does have its place, though...

Palm for mobility
Mac for productivity
Linux for development
Windows for Solitaire.

Used to be able to get that on a T-shirt from MacSurfShop, but apparently they've closed.

 

[SkyHog]

I hate to say it, because virii suck - but y'all need to chill on the no viruses on Macs thing. You're just gonna convince someone to create one.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I hate to say it, because virii suck - but y'all need to chill on the no viruses on Macs thing. You're just gonna convince someone to create one.

I thought it was too hard?

Actually, the first Mac virus was created specifically for that reason. It didn't do any harm, but it was a wake-up call.