For Sale For Sale - 1976 Piper Archer II in San Diego

[robertb]

Hello everyone,
My hangar neighbor just doesn't have enough time to enjoy his Piper Archer II and I am helping him sell it. I have spent a lot of time in 4731F and it is a fun little plane. Here are the specs:

Asking price is $100,000 but see comments below.
1976 Piper Archer II (PA 28-181)
4,100 Airframe Hours
2,090 SMOH on O360-A4M (Compressions at last annual Overhauled/72/75/75)
SkyTec Starter
Bogert Copper Battery Cables (From battery to starter - impressive modification)
Garmin GNS430W (Just repaired by Garmin w/ warranty, screen in great condition)
KX155 Nav/Comm
S-Tec 60-2 Auto-pilot
Garmin GTX327 Transponder
ADS-B Out by UAvionix Tailbeacon
PMA8000B Audio Panel
BatteryMinder
Electric Trim
IFR Pitot-Static & Transponder completed August 2023
Annual Due August 2024
Paint in very good condition

It flies regularly so hours are approximate.



I haven't sold a plane in about 10 years and any thoughts on what I've failed to list, just let me know. The plane is listed on Trade-A-Plane and will soon be on Controller too. As AOPA's VRef valuation tool is no longer available and my research shows values all over the place, any respectful thoughts or feedback on value, marketing, or other comments are welcomed. All 40 photos can be viewed at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/171tDGUgX-FgdepXn4gYxIv_5va3GM_12?usp=sharing .

 

[robertb]

Did I post this in the wrong place? I figured I would have gotten a dozen comments by now about how it is priced too high, too low, the photos are blurry, not enough info, too much info, why we aren't using a broker, why we shouldn't use a broker, and, most important, boxes or briefs?

I haven't posted much since the Red Board and Purple Boards went away. Has everyone here gotten nice and friendly and afraid to hurt my feelings? ... the pot has been stirred...

 

[Rcmutz]

Ask yourself if plane is worth $160k after engine OH. TBO is just a number, but a buyer will be looking at the high time SMOH and asking themselves the same question. I have heard in the past that a lot of banks might not loan against high SMOH planes.

 

[robertb]

Ask yourself if plane is worth $160k after engine OH. TBO is just a number, but a buyer will be looking at the high time SMOH and asking themselves the same question. I have heard in the past that a lot of banks might not loan against high SMOH planes.

Thanks for the response! Good way to look at it. I suspect there may be a price adjustment once I get a little more feedback.

 

[Mason]

We aren't supposed to comment on price.

 

[robertb]

We aren't supposed to comment on price.

True and thank you for the response. If the op invites comments, it's ok. I wondered about that too and looked at the forum rules on that topic before posting. Maybe I should post in the general group and ask, "what's it worth"? That might bring more comments.

 

[asicer]

I figured I would have gotten a dozen comments by now about how it is priced too high, too low, the photos are blurry, not enough info, too much info, why we aren't using a broker, why we shouldn't use a broker, and, most important, boxes or briefs?

If you didn't get many comments then that may be a sign that your pricing might be in the ballpark.

 

[Lindberg]

Did I post this in the wrong place? I figured I would have gotten a dozen comments by now about how it is priced too high, too low, the photos are blurry, not enough info, too much info, why we aren't using a broker, why we shouldn't use a broker, and, most important, boxes or briefs?

I haven't posted much since the Red Board and Purple Boards went away. Has everyone here gotten nice and friendly and afraid to hurt my feelings? ... the pot has been stirred...

The Purple Board was still there the last time I checked.

 

[robertb]

The Purple Board was still there the last time I checked.

Cool. Thanks. For some reason I thought it went away.

 

[robertb]

If you didn't get many comments then that may be a sign that your pricing might be in the ballpark.

Good point!

 

[eman1200]

If you didn't get many comments then that may be a sign that your pricing might be in the ballpark.

Good point!

Or not in the ballpark. One or the other.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I’m sure you’ve researched comparables
Oh wait, there’s yours right there

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I’ve given up trying to figure plane prices out, here is a 81 Mooney J, for the low low price of $348750.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?make=MOONEY&model_group=MOONEY+M20+SERIES&model=M20J+201&listing_id=2431320&s-type=aircraft

I think I need to sell my plane if this is representative of the market.

 

[stevenhmiller]

Ask yourself if plane is worth $160k after engine OH. TBO is just a number, but a buyer will be looking at the high time SMOH and asking themselves the same question. I have heard in the past that a lot of banks might not loan against high SMOH planes.

This right here. First thing I thought was engine TBO is over Lycoming recommendation and therefore should be either overhauled or replaced. The asking price doesn't leave much room to account for this. Just my opinion.

 

[robertb]

This right here. First thing I thought was engine TBO is over Lycoming recommendation and therefore should be either overhauled or replaced. The asking price doesn't leave much room to account for this. Just my opinion.

I hear you and appreciate the info. While the engine is past TBO, running engines beyond TBO seems to be more common now than, let's say, 10 years ago. If compressions are good, oil filters and oil analysis are looking good, I am comfortable running an engine beyond TBO. My O-470 is just past TBO. I foresee an overhaul on the horizon but don't see the recommended TBO as a predetermined time when it needs to be done. Of course, if someone it using the plane for commercial purposes, that's a different story.

 

[SFDukie]

Hi Robert!
I’m not actively in the market, but I try to keep roughly abreast, and archers are my “rental sweet spot”- the fbo where I rent, they’re slightly less expensive than the equivalent 172S, and I enjoy flying them.

I think most will look- despite the compressions, & new jug, at the time since major, and discount the cost of a new or overhauled engine. Yes, many go past TBO- but that comes with a “worry factor” when you’re buying someone else’s plane. One’s own- sure, may stretch several hundreds hours. But one you don’t have the personal history with?

So, to me, seems a bit high.

 

[robertb]

...

So, to me, seems a bit high.

Good info and thank you. I am a real estate broker and, when it comes to homes, it is pretty easy to see final sale prices. Too bad there isn't a database of equivalent info for airplanes. I have not been paying attention to Archer values so valuation is a bit challenging.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

I have no data points for you on the Archer, but about a year ago, I bought a Comanche with a TBO'd engine (although it's been rebuilt 1,000 hours ago, the last owner didn't 0-timed it), 1,000 hours less in total time but 16 years older. Also, no fancy avionics, just your standard VFR instruments, but upgraded wing tips and pretty nice leather interior. I paid about half of your asking price for that plane.

It's hard to price an airplane. I sold five planes and bought six. With some of them, I thought I priced them just right and they wouldn't sell. With others, I thought I overpriced them and they sold within weeks. For the Archer, not many are for sale that are similar to yours so pricing it is a shot in the dark. Plus, looking at asking prices is somewhat pointless as what you really need is sold prices.

Closest plane for sale to yours right now is this one: https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/234083687/1974-piper-archer-piston-single-aircraft

Listed at $115,000. 700 SMOH on the engine. Would someone buying your plane be able to get a 700 hour engine for $15,000 on the plane? If so, you are priced right. Also, the plane above is "pending" - maybe give the broker a call and ask how much it's selling for. He may or may not disclose the number. If he does, you'll have an incredibly accurate data point. But still, only one data point ;-)

 

[robertb]

...

Closest plane for sale to yours right now is this one: https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/234083687/1974-piper-archer-piston-single-aircraft

Listed at $115,000. 700 SMOH on the engine. Would someone buying your plane be able to get a 700 hour engine for $15,000 on the plane? If so, you are priced right. Also, the plane above is "pending" - maybe give the broker a call and ask how much it's selling for. He may or may not disclose the number. If he does, you'll have an incredibly accurate data point. But still, only one data point ;-)

Chris,
That's good info and I can tell you put some thought into your reply. Thank you sir!
I'll reach out to that broker and see if he has any info he can share.

Another thought - Trade-A-Plane vs. Controller.
Controller was very economical for an ad. Controller was about 8x the cost for a similar ad, iirc. I have two thoughts:
1. I shouldn't be cheap when trying to sell an high value asset.
2. Anyone who is looking for an aircraft is probably looking at both Controller and TAP.

You've been on both sides of the transaction quite a bit. Any thoughts?

 

[Tantalum]

Thanks for the post and the pictures, I fly out of SEE and MYF almost daily and pretty sure I've seen and heard this plane on the radio! Something like this might be a great addition to a small club fleet or for a person working on ratings and not interested in some of the hassle that comes along with renting

Without commenting on the price, that engine TBO figure is, if nothing else, a psychological concern for most buyers I'd say. While compressions are over 70, and I know many people take their planes past TBO, there is going to be that worry factor, AND, from a financial planning and hourly reserves perspective, something to more judiciously plan for than a plane, say, with 900 hours on the engine.

Privately this might fly 50 hours per year (?).. is that engine going to need replacement in 1 year, 2? Or will it march on for 10? This will also make reselling that much harder for the new buyer, that engine ain't getting any younger!

If put in a club it might fly 80-100 hours in a month, fills the coffers faster but means more abuse and likely an overhaul (much) soon(er)

...PLUS, if in a club there's a big CYA factor these days, should there by any "event" involving loss of power having an engine past TBO will have less than desirable optics.

Good luck though, we need MORE low wings out there not less. Despite 500 hrs/yr in 172 I still generally hate high wings, with the exception made for the 210.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

Chris,
That's good info and I can tell you put some thought into your reply. Thank you sir!
I'll reach out to that broker and see if he has any info he can share.

Another thought - Trade-A-Plane vs. Controller.
Controller was very economical for an ad. Controller was about 8x the cost for a similar ad, iirc. I have two thoughts:
1. I shouldn't be cheap when trying to sell an high value asset.
2. Anyone who is looking for an aircraft is probably looking at both Controller and TAP.

You've been on both sides of the transaction quite a bit. Any thoughts?

I always put up my ads on both + Barnstormers + Kijiji (Canadian version of Craigslist just less yucky) + flyers at airports within 2 hours of flight (more as an excuse to go flying). My thinking is, a few hundred dollars won’t matter when selling an asset like an airplane.

Having said that, every buyer of the planes i sold came from Kijiji. I had leads from all sources, but converted only those who found the planes on Kijiji. Another thing, two of the planes i sold, i offered owner financing. For those two, that was the only way to get full asking price as the other offers were much below asking. Worked out in the end but certainly was somewhat risky.

 

[robertb]

I always put up my ads on both + Barnstormers + Kijiji (Canadian version of Craigslist just less yucky)...

Having said that, every buyer of the planes i sold came from Kijiji...

Thanks Chris! I just placed a Barnstormers ad and one on Kijiji. That's great that you had high conversion on the Canadian site. I am going to be curious to see what kind of response I get there. I appreciate the idea of using Kijiji! Hopefully I don't get bumped off it for speaking 'Merican.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

Thanks Chris! I just placed a Barnstormers ad and one on Kijiji. That's great that you had high conversion on the Canadian site. I am going to be curious to see what kind of response I get there. I appreciate the idea of using Kijiji! Hopefully I don't get bumped off it for speaking 'Merican.

Well, part of the reason I get good conversions from the Canadian site is because I am Canadian and the planes I sold were Canadian registered planes ;-)