Flying to Mexico

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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Yep, Mexico. Cozumel (MMCZ) to be specific.

Pitfalls? Pretty similar to Canada? Other things I need to know? Weather sources? Nav stuff?

It looks like flying direct from Key West to Cozumel is an easy trip in the Aztec (415 nm), but skirts the western tip of Cuba. Is this a problem? Information appreciated from those who've done it.

Thanks!
 
Contact Dave Siciliano - he's done it several times.

Also, contact Risk Gardner at Caribbean Sky Tours - they are the experts in Mexico flying and logistics.

http://www.caribbeanskytours.com/
 
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Thanks for the places to start!

Yeah, I figure DHS will come say hi to me at some point if I go, but I don't let that stop me from grand adventures.
 
don't forget the prop locks or club. An Aztruck would be a popular plane for drug runners to steal.
 
There is a little more involved in to going to Mexico than Canada but I don't have such great advice because I have never been there without using a handler. ATC sometimes doesn't speak such great English and they speak Spanish to the Mexican airplanes. For whatever reason they love DME arcs down there too.
 
Cuba was a non-event the few times I flew over it enroute from CR to FL.
 
don't forget the prop locks or club. An Aztruck would be a popular plane for drug runners to steal.

That would be a good point, especially when you figure the fact that all you have to do is wait for it to get cold and try to start it then if you want an easy steal.

Hot start? If they can start it they can have it. :)
 
I dunno. One can probably get a cheap tube flight to Cozumel. As much as I love adventure, I doubt I'd do it. I prefer to take my little puddle jumper into places jets don't go. That's adventure.
 
High Ted! I've done that a couple times; once from Addison to Merida and once from Stanford Fl to Cozumel. Cuba has an inner and outer ADIZ. You need permission in advance to fly through the inner; the outer is no problem--I was IFR. If you look at any of the charts with air routes on them, those are shown.
Have you called down to check on tie downs and fuel? Cozumel was flooded by hurricane Frances a few years ago and their fuel was underground when I went. Should be fine now, but I'd check. Also, check when customs is open. If you arrive at a different time, at the least, there will be an extra charge. The GA parking had cables on the ground or ground inserts that were farther apart than was we use in the states. Bring tie down ropes that are a bit longer; maybe four extra feet each.
There is a lot of excellent information on the AOPA site. There is a fee to land in Mexico that is payable once a year and a charge for passengers. Fuel must be paid for in cash (pesos or dollars). It was competitively priced, and there was an ATM nearby, but no credit cards or check were accepted. Flying from Florida, I was never out of radio contact, but I was at FL200. Lower, one might have to report key points through another aircraft, so, know how to give periodic reports and where they are to be given. You need a customs sticker. When returning, you will have to comply with the new requirements. I just had to call customs and file a flight plan when I went three years ago. The planes were near a barracks when I was there and soldiers accompanied me and passengers from the parking are to FBO facilities.
Do you have phone number for Merida Approach, tower and airport commander? Worth having in case needed. Jepp can provide a full trip kit. There are other charts that were DOD, but I don't know about current availability.
After crossing the Gulf route to Cancun, one turns south to Cozumel. Don't expect a lot of help with weather. Best weather was on a computer before I left. Merida Approach didn't have much but could call to Cozumel and relay what they said. DME arc approach if I recall correctly.
Have a great trip. If you have questions, I can pull out some of my last trip info and give you more details.

Oh yea, check on insurance. It seems to go back and forth on whether you need a Mexican issued rider or policy or if an American policy is acceptable if it specifically states Mexico is covered. I brought a copy of my U.S. policy with the part about Mexican coverage highlighted, but with an extra fee, a lot seems to get accepted. I'd research that before going.

Here's a link to the AOPA page if you're a member: http://www.aopa.org/members/pic/intl/mexico/index.html

Best,

Dave
 
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don't forget the prop locks or club. An Aztruck would be a popular plane for drug runners to steal.

A buddy of mine caught some Mexican scumbags in the act...over his Apache at Puerta Panascas MEX.
 
High Ted!

:rofl:

Thanks for the great input, Dave. The trip is still very much up in the air at the moment (pun intended). I should have a better idea within a few weeks. I've already got the customs sticker (heading to Canada next week). I asked my insurance broker and she said that for Mexico we'd need to add a Mexican policy. She's looking into cost on that.

I should probably go ahead and order the charts for reference to check them out, that should give me a lot of info. I'll definitely be IFR for the duration of the trip, but as you know the Aztec is no FL200 performer (I doubt it could make it up there even if I wanted to). So radio contact may be an issue there.

I'll let you know what happens with the trip. It's in the very early stages now, but we'll see what happens. Obviously there's the issue of survival gear as well. Since this would be a one-time trip and not regular, I'd probably see if I could borrow some, I know of at least one friend who's got a raft and life vests.
 
"Ted's Excellent Adventure" Sounds like a blast!

Duuuuuude! :)

Have Aztec, will travel. It's been good to me so far.
 
I'm not sure if this is a dog trip or not but if it is you should check on the requirements for documentation of shots to bring them across the border (this goes for Canada too, either direction).
 
Video tape customs when they are going through your plane. Maybe Dr. Bruce will chime in with his experience with U.S. Customs coming back from Mexico.
 
Obviously there's the issue of survival gear as well. Since this would be a one-time trip and not regular, I'd probably see if I could borrow some, I know of at least one friend who's got a raft and life vests.
If you can't borrow them, there are places you can rent them.
 
Yes, Fort Pierce is where I stop to rent if I don't have it on the way to the Bahamas. Decent FBO, customs and they do a lot of it; so, it's pretty seamless (not the life vests--the process <g>.

Best,

Dave
 
another thing to consider: insurance. check your policy, check Mexico's requirements. I do know that for rented N-planes landing in Mexico, special insurance is needed.
 
I asked my insurance broker and she said that for Mexico we'd need to add a Mexican policy. She's looking into cost on that.

another thing to consider: insurance. check your policy, check Mexico's requirements. I do know that for rented N-planes landing in Mexico, special insurance is needed.
Think he's got that covered, unless you think there's something his broker is missing.
 
Think he's got that covered, unless you think there's something his broker is missing.
Duhwoops, missed that. But it bears repeating. :D
Let's just say that if there is a problem and the authorities say "well... we can straighten this all out for a thousand or so", he's not talking pesos. :D
 
Well, this is looking like it may happen. Now that I've gotten my feet wet with Canadian flights, the Mexican ones seem pretty doable.

After looking at the route some more, I'm thinking that I will likely be going from the New Orleans area down to Cozumel. With full fuel that gives me enough reserve to be happy, even if one engine quits on me exactly half way and for some deviations for weather if necessary. After Sunday's flight, I confirmed with great certainty that both my on-board radar and Eye-Dar still work. Big green splotches = don't fly. It's either the ground or really bad weather, and neither one will be pleasant.

I'll check out the AOPA website some more as I continue my planning, and do need to call down to Cozumel for fuel information and such.

For charts, it looks like Jepp is my only option. Any concurrence there? If so, I'll just go ahead and order a trip kit. I have the Jepp Caribbean trip kit that I bought a year and a half ago, but now I can't remember if that has Mexico in it or not. My thought is it does, but I know it's outdated and best be refreshed.

For weather, it looks like ADDS has me mostly covered. The satellite images cover the entire Gulf, and they also have METARs for Cozumel (currently reading SCT015TCU...), plus the winds aloft cover the Gulf. Is there any Gulf radar available, or is the satellite going to be my best bet there? Haven't checked yet, but will check next time I'm flying to see if my NEXRAD has satellite images, but I'm about certain it doesn't have radar for that area. Basically if it's going to be anything but pretty darn nice weather, I'm just going to stay on the ground. There aren't enough outs in the Gulf for me to be willing to fly into weather that's looking questionable in my plane with my experience, and I'm giving myself enough extra days that a delay here or there won't be a problem.

This is all coming together nicely. I also finally got around to ordering a camcorder so I can hopefully take some in-flight videos. Every time I'm flying through something that I think "Hey, this would be cool to take video of" I am, of course, without anything to record it with.
 
don't forget the prop locks or club. An Aztruck would be a popular plane for drug runners to steal.

A good friend of mine had his mechanic create a dummy fuel line that was blocked, for his Turbo 206. When he landed and was staying for few days he replaced the real fuel line with the dummy one.

While a good idea, it wasn't very effective. They just waited until he was leaving and as he was taxiing to the end of the runway they blockaded him in with vehicles and forced him from the airplane with automatic weapons.

He now has a very nice T182. Last I heard he was working on some sort of arrangement to covertly mount a SPOT messenger in the back so that it constantly tracked the location of the aircraft. I am unsure if or how he gets around the 24hr automatic shutoff on it.

Brian
 
Detailed report today/yesterday Redboard ref Loreto;return BCS might checkitout - Kareem et al
 
The big trip is coming up. Looks like on Monday I'll be leaving. I've got my Jepp trip kit, am borrowing the required over water survival gear tomorrow. Plane is ready.

There's one thing I can't seem to find a good answer for, and that's on who to file my return flight plan to the US with. I did a mock flight plan with fltplan.com and it looks like it'd work. However it also looked like it would work in Canada, and never seemed to pop up. I only tried it once, and after that just filed my outbound flight plans with Canada.

Any suggestions from the folks who've done it?
 
Ted: If you leave from where there's a good FBO, they will assist. Fltplan.com does a good flight plan from what many have said. If it doesn't get filed properly; print it and let the FBO file it including the customs form. Also, the e-mail help at Fltplan.com is very responsive. I'd send them an e-mail with any questions and see it they can't clear them up for you.

Have a great trip. Looking forward to hearing all about it.

Best,

Dave
 
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.....................who to file my return flight plan to the US with................?

Hi; used to ferry cropdusters to south America and once in a while bring one back; last one was December 2001; following info might be dated, but I still do some international flying. Be prepared for culture shock; things take more time south of the border; learn to take it easy:cheerswine:, smell the flowers and leave your type A personality at home:cornut:.

In Mexico, file your outbound flight plan either in person or by fax and have it signed off and stamped by their version of FSS and/or by the girl at the FBO and/or by customs; the more stamps, the more impressive it looks. If by fax, you should get a confirmation by fax from the Mexican FSS.

Prior to your departure from Mexico, call the US Customs office in Key West and advise them of your ETA Key West* in local time EDT (they do not speak zulu or GMT). Before your departure from Florida, verify with them that you got the correct number, procedure and their hours of operations. I assume you are familiar with the eAPIS; that still applies. You might want to ask them if upon arrival in Key West, if they want you to remain seated in the plane until they authorize you to get out, or if you can deplane and take your paperwork to their office (different custom offices have different procedures; like the FSDO's)

At your first radio contact with the USA air traffic control, be prepared to give them your complete flight plan all over again.

Cuban airspace crossing is a non-event. I did have to fax some information to a Miami office**, but the Cubans do not charge for private flights. All my flying was VFR w. flight following; much less complicated.

Please let us know how it worked out. Some stuff will have changed and I could use some "recurrency training":hairraise: I suspect that by now they might have computadores. Good luck and enjoy the trip.:thumbsup:


*Key West: assuming you return via Florida. US Customs say, if you do not fly a cabin class turboprop/jet, you need to land at the first customs airport on your route. If you fly a King Air, you would be allowed to fly direct to Orlando (if that was your destination anyway).


**I'll post it if I find it back; chances are that when outbound from Florida, the local FBO knows more about it then what I remember.
 
Thanks for the info! I'll be sure to let everyone know how the trip goes. :)
 
Well, 7,000' apparently didn't work so well for a west-bound flight. Tried 8K briefly, then back down to 6K. We didn't need another Brazilian-style mid-air! :no:

Edit: 6K was 5 Kt faster.
 
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Well, 7,000' apparently didn't work so well for a west-bound flight. Tried 8K briefly, then back down to 6K. We didn't need another Brazilian-style mid-air! :no:

I filed for 6,000, but they then screwed up my clearance and sent me on what started out as a 175 heading down to Marathon (see flight track). Somewhere around Key West they realized that I should be at an even-number altitude, and said Havana wanted me at 8,000, so they wouldn't give me 6. Asked Havana if I could have 6,000 and he said "Let me check with Miami, you're still in his airspace and he said he wanted you at 8,000." Then got 6. Communication fail.

As I said in the other thread, the plane is happiest at 6,000 in the summer. In the winter it's a different matter. Sure, it'll do higher, but I like to keep it happy. Most planes have a sweet spot.
 
Well, last night after 47.9 hours and a bit under 7000 miles of flying (actually probably 7000 or so when you figure that we didn't go direct for a good portion of the trip), the Aztec, Laurie, and I made it back to Williamsport where we'd started. The trip was a partnership between Cloud Nine Rescue Flights (my non-profit - www.cloudninerescueflights.org) and the International Fund for Animal Welfare (www.ifaw.org), details here: http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw_united_states/media_center/press_releases/7_14_2010_63179.php

Those who want more info on the animal aspects of the trip can check out the blog (not posted yet, give me a week or so), I'm going to focus on the flying aspects of the trip here.

As with any major trip, there's a lot of preparation involved. First one is getting appropriate charts for the trip. For IFR charts, I just ordered the Jeppesen trip kit. For $100 ($130 if you count the plastic binder to put it in), Jepp will send you their complete "manual" for Mexican flight, with current en route charts and approach plates for all of Mexico. If you're not used to Jepp charts, I would spend some time to look over them and get used to them. I use the NACO stuff because it's cheaper and suffices for me just fine. The charts are pretty self-explanatory, they just look different. You'll also need to have your survival gear. This can be rented from various FBOs or else purchased. In my case, I borrowed a nice raft and some vests from a friend of mine. Make sure that they're easily accessible. Putting them in the nose of the plane won't do you a lot of good if you're over water and need to land. We kept it behind my head where any of the three people on board could easily grab it, with vests behind the second row passenger (figuring the raft was significantly more important).

Filing your flight plan to Mexico is just as easy as any other flight within the US. A few things to be aware of. First, Cuba has the inner and outer ADIZ zones. Going into our fuel stop prior to heading to Cozumel on the first leg, I asked approach if they had my clearance, and they said I needed to refile. So I got a phone number to call Miami center, and found out the guys there didn't realize it was alright to fly through the outer ADIZ without prior approval. We settled that, and I was on my way.

Florida has a lot of warning areas, and as such they gave me a convoluted clearance around them before I got on B646 Marathon to somewhere out over the Cuban outer ADIZ where I picked up the other B route that goes straight into Cozumel. Expect to be on airways over the Gulf. For one, over a large part of it they may not have you on radar. At 6,000 ft heading from Florida to Cozumel, we were always in radar contact. However the same was not true over the Gulf heading from Cozumel to New Orleans, or from Cozumel back to Florida (they sent me home on a different route than they sent me out on).

You don't need to call Mexico ahead of time to let them know you're coming. Just file your flight plan (make sure it's landing at an international airport), and be on your way. Calling ahead to confirm availability of fuel and parking is a good idea (a tip from Dave Siciliano), but they wouldn't give me a fuel price ahead of time. However you do need to file your outbound eAPIS with the US. Make sure you get your eAPIS account ahead of the trip.

Havana center and Merida centers were very polite and professional. If you're used to IFR flight in the US it's pretty much the same there. The controllers actually gave more proper speak rather than a lot of the abbreviated communication that we get used to in this country.

Cozumel airport is actually very nice. Most of the flights they get in are from American companies. I think the direct flights are from Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta. There is also a healthy number of piston and turbine GA aircraft that go in.

Once you land in Mexico, you'll have to go through Mexican customs and immigration. About 7 people came out to the plane (including the military folk in full out camo gear and guns) to ask us questions. They were very polite and friendly, but it was the first of a number of forms we had to fill out. This was just about who was on board. Inside was standard customs declaration and getting the passport stamped, then getting the bags inspected, any food items taken away, etc. Each of these people requires that you fill out one form.

At this point you think you're done, but you're not. For one you have to get the plane refueled at the FBO. The fuel price was actually not bad at all (I don't have an exact price, but it was in the $4.50 range, I think), but of course they don't speak very good English. In Cozumel they did accept credit cards to pay for fuel, but you had to tell them ahead of time. As a reuslt, I ended up paying cash since the fuel guys filled out the form assuming cash.

You also need to close your flight plan. Cozumel has a flight service station there where you file your trip completion report. The man there was quite friendly. This form is filled out in triplicate (no joke), and you have to get stamps from four people, all located in different parts of the airport. It's a scavenger hunt. The first person is Operations, with whom you pay the immigration tax. This must be paid in cash. Crew are exempt from paying. So if you have more than one pilot on board, claim the other pilot as crew. Since Laurie is a pilot, we claimed her as first officer. I don't know if you could claim a third person as flight engineer... :)

The second and third stops are customs and immigration. You will have already talked to these people, but they will now require another form each, each of which has the same information you have had already. Write down the name, nationality, birth date, and passport number and expiration of each person on board, plus address. You'll need it for eAPIS and coming in and out of Mexico. Also pilot's certificate numbers for all pilots.

The fourth person was "Commandancia", basically the airport police. Make sure when you go to him you have your registration, airworthiness certificate, and Mexican insurance policy ready. They will make sure that your aircraft is legal, and will then issue their fourth stamp. Additionally, you will pay this person the aircraft entrance fee (in cash). This is supposed to be paid once per calendar year, so he should issue a multi-entrance paper. Of course, he doesn't want to do that, because he has to then fill out more forms (and probably means he won't be able to pocket the cash you just gave him). Make sure you get it from him. The person we talked to was friendly, but told us he was doing us a favor.

The whole process from landing to being ready to leave the airport and fully fueled up took 2 hours the first time, and 1 hour 15 minutes the second time. It helped that we knew where we were going, and plus the fuel guys knew who we were and drove right up as soon as we landed. That helped expedite things. However it would have taken much longer if we didn't have a local who assisted us with translation. Although he had no idea about how the process worked, he spoke Spanish and was able to converse with the people we dealt with (who didn't speak English very well).

Leaving was effectively the same process in reverse. Filing the flight plan was somewhat fun since I was actually talking with the flight service station person (to his face). He called up Cancun approach to confirm they would be alright with the route I wanted, and walked me through all the individual bits, including survival gear. Of course, this form (filled out in quadruplicate) needed four stamps from the same four people, and more forms. Operations charged the leaving Mexico tax (once again, not applicable to crew), customs and immigration (again, two separate people with separate stamps) needed their (separate) forms of who was leaving with passport numbers. Commandancia wanted to reverify that the plane was legal, although at this point the multipass form was acceptable. This took a bit over an hour the first time, and about 45 minutes the second time.

At the end of your journey, you shall be granted the final reward: your flight plan will be filed, and you can leave Mexico and go home! I found the Cozumel tower controllers to read clearances differently than Americans, and am told that's normal in Mexico. You get the same information ultimately. A lot of Mexican instrument procedures include DME arcs (both for coming and going), but so long as they have radar working, as soon as I took off I got told to proceed direct to whatever fix and resume own navigation.

Flying to New Orleans puts you over a longer section of the water, much of which where you won't be able to talk to Houston at the altitudes that a naturally aspirated aircraft will want to fly at. I relayed position reports through jets. Yes, a real position report like they taught you in IFR training and you never thought you'd use!

For customs returning to the US, you'll need to file your eAPIS (of course). Don't forget you need to also call the airport of entry you're landing at ahead of time. This is a good idea anyway to make sure they'll be there. A lot of them have hours that you may be landing outside of, and that will typically require prior arrangements. The same goes for Canada flight. The customs people I dealt with were very courteous and quick, even including all the animals I was bringing into the country. Really, they just needed to see the same sort of documentation that is required for any legal transport of animals, so it's not a problem.

Gulf weather is interesting. Aside from the Gulf area forecast (available at www.aviationweather.gov), we also looked at the Caribbean satellite from www.intellicast.com and local METARs to get information on what was going on. There's not a lot in the way of storm predictions over the gulf, but the satellite gives you a good idea of what's going on if you look at it. Personally, I think that unless it's a perfect day (which our first two gulf crossings were), having on-board radar is a good idea. XM provided me some satellite images, but no radar, and you definitely don't have center to rely on. You can paint something of a picture of what's going on with how jets are diverting (or not), but it really is best to have your own.

I am told that Cozumel has had a lot of drug trafficing recently, and as such is especially strict with their procedures. The fact that it took as long as it did may have to do with that Mexico itself. I can only speak to my experience in Cozumel. In retrospect, I'm not sure if I would do it again if it was for personal visitation, but I think the flight over the gulf itself is worth doing, and it is a neat experience. You need to have a GPS at naturally aspirated altitudes. I don't know if you can pick up VORs in the flight levels, but I certainly couldn't for more than half of the flight. I found the jets to be very helpful in relaying messages for us. While I probably could have gotten away with not doing it, I felt a lot more comfortable knowing that center knew where I was and that I was still alive.

The rest of the trip was great. In 47.9 hours I had barely 1 hour of actual and zero instrument approaches. We only had one weather delay, which was waiting for some storms to dissipate before crossing the gulf back to Cozumel from New Orleans to get our second trip going. The weather couldn't have cooperated with us any better to my mind - the trip actually could've been done without an instrument rating, although I think it's easier filing IFR for all the different international legs. I would recommend it, although I'm not sure I would recommend Cozumel simply because of the time that it took to arrive and leave. However I can say that the plane was certainly safe where it was kept. No problems whatsoever, and there were several much nicer aircraft there.

Pictures to come later.
 
Thanks for the detailed PIREP Ted! We haven't flown into there since hurricane Francis passed through but really liked it there and may fly down again. You reminded me of a lot of things; talking to Havana Approach was interesting to me since as a former Army guy I thought I might have been visiting on less than friendly terms in the past.

Thanks again.

Dave
 
Nice write up Ted.
Thanks for the info.

Sounds like a fun time.
 
Thanks for the detailed PIREP Ted! We haven't flown into there since hurricane Francis passed through but really liked it there and may fly down again. You reminded me of a lot of things; talking to Havana Approach was interesting to me since as a former Army guy I thought I might have been visiting on less than friendly terms in the past.

Dave, I don't know how Cozumel compared to your other visits to Mexico in terms of getting through customs. We felt the process took longer than it should have, but given the problems they've had with drug trafficing, I can also understand their paranoia and trying to crack down on the problem. The second time was easier than the first, I think in part because we knew everyone and they knew why we were there.

Interesting comment on Havana approach, as I was questioning how friendly or unfriendly they would be. I was pleasantly surprised to hear how professional and courteous they were. First trip through when they transfered me to Merida center I gave them my "125.2 for 6927Y, gracais adios" and got back an "de nada, adios", it seemed to me that they were alright folk.

How were the fish tacos in Cozumel?

Didn't have any fish tacos, but the fish was excellent. Actually, all the food was great, just stay away from the fried touristy stuff and stick to the local specialties.

One thing I forgot: when we went back out to the plane, our bags were put through the x-ray machine. They questioned my pocket knife the first time, and made me fill out a form to bring it on the plane with me. I argued with them on this as it's my plane, and what am I going to do, threaten myself and hijack my own plane? Filled out the form the first trip, and the second trip just left the knife in the plane to avoid the hassle.
 
I may have had a slight advantage on u Ted; three nieces in halter tops breezes right through! Never tried it with dogs.
 
I may have had a slight advantage on u Ted; three nieces in halter tops breezes right through! Never tried it with dogs.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'll have to try that next time, Dave! ;)
 
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