Flying through class B

[DavidEM]

AIUI the regs, I see some contradictions. However, I do allow that is is *possible* that I have the interpretations wrong.
Right now, my bird does not have an xponder and only a handheld radio; not even lights. Anyway:
I'm considering flying an LSA from north Alabama down to near the Mexican border (T65). Most economical seems to be Huntsville to Tuscaloosa, to Meridian, then head south-southwest to the corner of Louisiana, then follow the coast kinda closely from there down to T65. This means I have to zigzag a lot to avoid C's, D's, MOA's, and a couple B's. Worst to get around is Houston. If I go north of the 30 mile ring, I am W-A-Y out of my way, hugely increasing my time and fuel burn (aka $$$.)

I seem to remember that Class C and B airspaces sometimes have victors through their veils (even though sectionals no longer show them!) and you can fly through them without a transponder if you call ahead by at least an hour and get approval.
If I fly around the south of Galveston to avoid the Houston and Galveston circles, I'm out over the water way more than I want to be.
Am I missing something here?
Help, please.
Thanks,
David

 

[denverpilot]

I believe you can extend your statement to "You can fly through any controlled airspace with prior approval of the controlling agency, without a transponder."

Whether you'll get permission everywhere is a risk, but I had to fly our aircraft through the Denver Class Bravo once for transponder maintenance at another airport. A phone call the night before and an approval (ask for a name, they actually forgot to write mine down and lost it), and a request to call just prior to departure the next day, and I was given explicit instructions.

I was also required to maintain two-way radio contact with DEN TRACON and handed off to them by the Tower after informing them on Ground that I had made prior arrangements for the transponder-less flight.

Your mileage may vary. But don't hesitate to ask. Most places, they'll work with you if they can.

 

[flyingron]

What makes you think Victor airways have anything to do with being transponderless? Victor airways are part of the IFR system which you'll find darned hard to fly without a transponder (as well as other things your LSA likely does not have).

I've flown in and out of IAD NORDO a couple of times. I've flown without a transponder on days when the primary RADAR is out. It takes coordination, sometimes a lot of coordination.

 

[roncachamp]

AIUI the regs, I see some contradictions. However, I do allow that is is *possible* that I have the interpretations wrong.
Right now, my bird does not have an xponder and only a handheld radio; not even lights. Anyway:
I'm considering flying an LSA from north Alabama down to near the Mexican border (T65). Most economical seems to be Huntsville to Tuscaloosa, to Meridian, then head south-southwest to the corner of Louisiana, then follow the coast kinda closely from there down to T65. This means I have to zigzag a lot to avoid C's, D's, MOA's, and a couple B's. Worst to get around is Houston. If I go north of the 30 mile ring, I am W-A-Y out of my way, hugely increasing my time and fuel burn (aka $$$.)

I seem to remember that Class C and B airspaces sometimes have victors through their veils (even though sectionals no longer show them!) and you can fly through them without a transponder if you call ahead by at least an hour and get approval.
If I fly around the south of Galveston to avoid the Houston and Galveston circles, I'm out over the water way more than I want to be.
Am I missing something here?

You don't have to avoid MOAs, but I would advise that you do. You mention "veils" for Class C and B airspace, and a 30 mile ring. I believe you're referring to the Mode C veil which requires a transponder within 30 miles of the core airport in Class B airspace. Class C airspace has no such veil and aircraft that have never had an engine-driven electrical system are exempt from the transponder requirement anyway. You can't enter or overfly Class C or Class B airspace, but you can fly just outside or beneath the layers without calling anyone.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I've flown into class C and into an airport under class B without a transponder after making the phone calls. The class B controllers made it clear that I was to stay out of the actual B airspace.

 

[DavidEM]

LS Guy, that was my understanding of the regs. However, there is another reg that says you can't even enter the 30 mile ring of a Class B (under the layer or not!) without an Xponder unless you call first and get approval. And of course, they don't tell you what number(s) to call.

 

[Bill Watson]

You don't have to avoid MOAs, but I would advise that you do. You mention "veils" for Class C and B airspace, and a 30 mile ring. I believe you're referring to the Mode C veil which requires a transponder within 30 miles of the core airport in Class B airspace. Class C airspace has no such veil and aircraft that have never had an engine-driven electrical system are exempt from the transponder requirement anyway. You can't enter or overfly Class C or Class B airspace, but you can fly just outside or beneath the layers without calling anyone.

(deafening applause)
Imagine, content without the riddles

 

[DavidEM]

The 30 mile veils are for Class B, and Class C's are 5 and 10 miles. Restrictions in the 30 mile veils are much more onerous than the C's and D's. The ambiguity is in the airspaces underlying the upside-down layer cakes of the B's. My new experimental has an itty bitty electrical system (170W) but I can't afford an Xponder for several more weeks, maybe months, and I must get down to T65 as soon as I can to get rid of this tooth pain.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

LS Guy, that was my understanding of the regs. However, there is another reg that says you can't even enter the 30 mile ring of a Class B (under the layer or not!) without an Xponder unless you call first and get approval. And of course, they don't tell you what number(s) to call.

You do want to call first. Look in the facility directory and you can find a number that will work at least during business hours. They can give you the direct number into the radar room to call on the weekend if necessary.

 

[Steve]

http://www.houstonpilots.net/resources/FlyingInClassB/Part2/

"There are no published preferred VFR Transition Routes through the Class B, but there is a VFR Corridor under the Class B airspace oriented East-West between the two airports, below 2,000ft. MSL. Refer to the Houston TAC for the exact dimensions, but in general, you can fly north of Interstate 10 and south of Interstate 610 below 2000ft. MSL without a Class B clearance."

You would still need to call for prior permission for flight without a working transponder.

 

[BillTIZ]

Look at 91.215 real carefully, if your aircraft does not have an engine driven electrical system, you are allowed inside the 30nm Mode C Veil, at and below the ceiling of the associated Class B airspace without a transponder, and you do not have to call ahead and ask permission.

Looking at the north side of IAH, there is a 4000 MSL floor you can fly under, I notice the class B goes out to 30nm above 4000. South along the coast it easier to get past HOU below the 4000 floor.

Just remain outside of actual Class B airspace. I do it all the time.

Edit: looking at the Class B link above for HOU/IAH airspace, I would not try that below 2000 path between IAH and HOU without a good radio.

 

[BillTIZ]

LS Guy, that was my understanding of the regs. However, there is another reg that says you can't even enter the 30 mile ring of a Class B (under the layer or not!) without an Xponder unless you call first and get approval. And of course, they don't tell you what number(s) to call.

If you have an engine drive electrical system, you need a xpndr for the Mode C Veil. The phone number to call is listed in the AF/D for HOU or IAF, normally it is the approach control ops supervisor.

If you need to skirt the south side to not go over water, give them a route, eta, and low enough altitude, it should not be an issue.