Flying into Telluride. Tips?

Tantalum said:
I would think so. The nice this about Telluride is that it's a bit off the beaten path so it doesn't tend to be as much of a tourist destination trap as other CO ski towns.. plus there are really two Tellurides, the old town and the newer resort area. My friend and I stayed in the old town and had no problem with rooms, even changing our accommodations the day before we went
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That's very good to know. Thank you.

Tantalum said:
As far as weather, maybe I got lucky but the day we arrived it went from hard IFR, to IFR, to marginal VFR, to total VFR by the time we landed.. and stayed clear blue skies the whole 4 days
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What time of year were you there?

Tantalum said:
PS.. I would recommend paying the extra money for a hangar.
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Any idea what that costs? It feels like a place like TEX would gouge for a hangar...
 
WiPilot said:
What time of year were you there?
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The week before Christmas last year

WiPilot said:
Any idea what that costs
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Call first, but I want to say $120 per night

Some pics below

FIRST, flight was from MYF.. most of the way everything under us was IFR.. GCN I believe was 200 OVC.. but it was breaking up fast
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APPROACHING TEX FROM WEST.. you can see that the approach to 27 is NOT that daunting.. just keep it fairly tight: (left traffic, obviously)
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AFTER ARRIVAL AT TEX
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We ended up being the only piston plane there.. there was a Piper turboprop there (Malibu conversion?) and a TBM as well
 
PS, note that the AP is *OFF* in the cockpit picture.. I know that's sheer insanity in a Cirrus, but you can actually drive it without AP!
 
Tantalum said:
PS, note that the AP is *OFF* in the cockpit picture.. I know that's sheer insanity in a Cirrus, but you can actually drive it without AP!
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Do you mean the AP is "off course," or "turned off" (inactive)?
 
@WiPilot

Ex-Colorado, current WI pilot here. Do a mountain flying course, that will answer all of your questions and make you far, far safer. The high rockies aren't something to go into willy-nilly. Stop and spend a day on the front range and grab an instructor, almost every flight school offers a mountain flying course that lasts 2-6 hours depending on the course.

Buy and read this book as well: https://www.asa2fly.com/Mountain-Canyon-and-Backcountry-Flying-Softcover-Book-P4071.aspx

Then go and have a great time :).
IMG_20180127_140827.jpg IMG_20180127_144047.jpg
 
Mtns2Skies said:
willy-nilly
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One thing to fly Rockies in turbo / turbine.. takes real cajones in a NA.. even Big Bear in the summer in a PA28 can be sobering. I can't imagine TEX in the summer
 
Mtns2Skies said:
The high rockies aren't something to go into willy-nilly. Stop and spend a day on the front range and grab an instructor, almost every flight school offers a mountain flying course that lasts 2-6 hours depending on the course.
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I'm going to get that book for sure. Know anyone/anywhere in our state where I can get the ground instruction? Obviously not going to get any mountain dual in WI...


Tantalum said:
One thing to fly Rockies in turbo / turbine.. takes real cajones in a NA..
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Now you're concerning me...when I said PA-32, I meant Cherokee Six 300....not a turbo lance or saratoga. I wouldn't be very heavy at all for the Six going across the passes (2800 pounds maybe?), and I've had it above 10,000 feet before and it still had plenty of climb left in it. But at 10,000' I'm down to about 18" MP at WOT. Am I gathering that pilots with NA airplanes don't regularly frequent TEX? My pax is somewhat of a nervous nelly to begin with, so I'm trying to do my homework ahead of time here to avoid any unpleasant surprises.
 
WiPilot said:
Now you're concerning me...when I said PA-32, I meant Cherokee Six 300....not a turbo lance or saratoga. I wouldn't be very heavy at all for the Six going across the passes (2800 pounds maybe?), and I've had it above 10,000 feet before and it still had plenty of climb left in it. But at 10,000' I'm down to about 18" MP at WOT. Am I gathering that pilots with NA airplanes don't regularly frequent TEX? My pax is somewhat of a nervous nelly to begin with, so I'm trying to do my homework ahead of time here to avoid any unpleasant surprises.
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Consult the POH carefully. If you'll be in winter the density altitude thing should work out in your favor.. but spend a bit of time looking at those take off performance graphs in the POH and work in some margin for yourself. Departing 27 there is really not much terrain (that I can remember) ahead of you at all.. one more reason to land on 27.. makes a go around far less stressful

I have departed Big Bear on high DA days (close to 10K) in your typical rental PA28 with 3 dudes on board.. so not a deal break, but do your math up front. I'm also in the camp of leaning for best power for takeoff when over 5K AGL.. if you have an engine gauge you can still monitor temps, etc.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
Or if you don't want to go so far and want better skiing come to Aspen, .
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Have been skiing Telluride for over 20 years every year. Quite often I'd see people that left Aspen and spent the remainder of their time in Telluride to avoid long lift lines. Unfortunately, people are finding Telluride ... used to be able to ski straight onto the lift with no other skiers around.

Tantalum said:
PS, note that the AP is *OFF* in the cockpit picture.. I know that's sheer insanity in a Cirrus, but you can actually drive it without AP!
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You are a HUGE risk taker!;) Am POSITIVE your right hand was on the chute handle the entire time the auto-pilot was off :eek::eek::D

WiPilot said:
My pax is somewhat of a nervous nelly to begin with, so I'm trying to do my homework ahead of time here to avoid any unpleasant surprises.
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Mountain induced turbulence is not fun. The "30 knot" wind ridge limit often quoted in these courses is for SAFETY not for COMFORT. Was at the airport a couple of weeks ago on a windy day ... a pilot's wife after landing was in hysterics and said she'd never fly again and book her a commercial flight to go home. Exact same thing during a "brown out" last spring with a different pilot ... if you want your family flying, don't put them in moderate to severe turbulence.
 
I meant and I think most people would agree that Switzerland is gorgeous and the very high mountains east of Tex look like that.
If I was coming from the N E I would not go all the way south near Col Springs to cross the mountains.

And don't put me in severe turbulence either and I try to avoid moderate as much as I can.
 
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If you are talking about "long lift lines" in Aspen, most probably you don't know much about it. It would be rare to wait over 5 min in most lift lines most times of the day. But there are many other things that favor Aspen we have choice of 4 mountains, easier to get to, likely easier to both fly or drive into. Probably better weather.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
want better skiing come to Aspen
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oh God now I'm #triggered
although, Aspen is some place warm, a place where the beer flows like wine, where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano

Bill Greenwood said:
Telluride looks like the Swiss alps
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Yes! Part of the reason I stayed in the old town.. that main street is epic

danhagan said:
Am POSITIVE your right hand was on the chute handle the entire time the auto-pilot was off
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pin out. hand on handle. you know it!

N1120A said:
And landed without pulling the chute?
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it was truly a moment of bravery
 
WiPilot said:
This all helps a lot, thank you! I've never been to the Swiss Alps, so I'm not sure if Bill was complimenting TEX or saying it's not all it's cracked up to be.

I especially found the article on different routes that was shared useful. I was a bit confusing in referring to the pass I was asking about, as I mixed up Boulder and CO Springs. I had meant CO Springs south of Denver; from the article it looks like that might be what's called Wilkerson pass? If so, is the general consensus that that pass is not recommended?
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Wilkerson is so benign, most of the time I don't even notice I'm going thru/over it.
If you're south of KCOS, no need to go north to Wilkerson, keep going south and around the R areas to the west by Canon City then west to Hayden Pass. Wave at Ted and the Iman as you fly over SuperMax.
Avoid Monarch Pass.

My last questions revolve around general weather patterns. 4 Corner says TEX can get snowed in for days at a time, which I suppose makes sense for something at that elevation. How about the passes themselves? Do they sock in for long periods of time during the winter, or do they generally clear out pretty quickly due to winds? The article seems to imply that if one pass is socked in, another is usually(?) viable. Agree/disagree with that?
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Welcome to Colorado. Anything can happen with weather.
In Wisconsin it's not uncommon to see 600' OVC for a day or two at a time in the winter. When it's 10 deg F. on the surface that's a no-go day. So I'm trying to gauge if the general weather conditions are the same, better, or worse than what I'm most familiar with.
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Out here, cold, clear days are wonderful! No problems with density altitude. The problem is winds in the mountains. At this timestamp, it's bitterly cold outside (Denver, which really is flatland - high, but still flatland) but absolutely clear with just a light wind. If I didn't have other commitments, I'd head out to the airport and go fly. Tomorrow looks to be the same, so definitely going flying.
Oh, also...on the topic of not being on a rigid schedule...is it realistic to just show up in Telluride in February and find a hotel room same day? I would want to avoid hard-date reservations if possible.
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Let me add to the recommendations - plan for an extra day or even two in the Denver area BEFORE you head into the mountains. Contact one of the flight schools at one of the major Front Range airports (KAPA, KFTG, KBJC) and get an actual mountain lesson in your airplane. Reading the books helps but can in no way prepare you for what's really going to happen. Colorado Pilots has a list of mountain instructors, as well. Contact me off-list and I can provide not only the CPA list but recommendations of experienced mountain CFIs I've flown with.

Remember, you are going from flatland to 14K....not just the airplane.

Another option - take a more southern route, come around by Durango and Cortez.
 
WiPilot said:
I'm going to get that book for sure. Know anyone/anywhere in our state where I can get the ground instruction? Obviously not going to get any mountain dual in WI...




Now you're concerning me...when I said PA-32, I meant Cherokee Six 300....not a turbo lance or saratoga. I wouldn't be very heavy at all for the Six going across the passes (2800 pounds maybe?), and I've had it above 10,000 feet before and it still had plenty of climb left in it. But at 10,000' I'm down to about 18" MP at WOT. Am I gathering that pilots with NA airplanes don't regularly frequent TEX? My pax is somewhat of a nervous nelly to begin with, so I'm trying to do my homework ahead of time here to avoid any unpleasant surprises.
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10,000 ft aint gonna do it.
Rule of thumbs....
for weight, never more than 90% of max gross.
always accept that you will land someplace else and rent a car
always accept that it might be a better idea to land at one of the southern Front Range airports (KCOS or KPUB), rent a car, and drive to Telluride.
 
What is the amount of time spent >12,000 feet in these passes? Have any of you had to bring oxygen with?
 
WiPilot said:
What is the amount of time spent >12,000 feet in these passes? Have any of you had to bring oxygen with?
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You don't need oxygen to be legal, no. But you should also assess your own health to determine if you might get hypoxic at lower altitudes than the FAA's mandated oxygen altitudes.
 
WiPilot said:
What is the amount of time spent >12,000 feet in these passes? Have any of you had to bring oxygen with?
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At 12,499 (FAA legal) I'm around 86-89 percent... everyone is different, and I can tell you that while I feel "fine" I do feel a little bit off.. I like to don O2 at 10K or above.. just seem to think a little more clearly.. less anxiety or something.. maybe it's all in my head! (pun intended)
 
Agreed on all of that - I phrased the question wrong. Should have asked, what is the amount of time spent in the passes >12,500 feet? Many of these passes are calling for 13k and 14k altitudes to cross safely. But I don't know how long you have to stay there to clear the terrain you're trying to get across? Probably depends on the pass? The article outlining the different passes/routes didnt make any mention whatsoever regarding O2.
 
86 %O2 is really low and yes if I was going to fly into Telluride I would for sure have a portable O 2 tank with me and use it especially for a pilot from sea level. I usually use O2 anytime Im going above 12, 500 unless is is brief like 10 min. and if I am going to fly at 11,500 for couple of hours I want O2 also, You are sharper and more rested and alert with O2, and I live at 8000 ft.
By the way most people can come here and do pretty well , even ski, but many don't do as well at BKD at 10.000 ft and some have to go back down to Denvers' mile high and usually recover ok there.
Tex is 8700 ft.
 
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Bill Greenwood said:
If you are talking about "long lift lines" in Aspen, most probably you don't know much about it. It would be rare to wait over 5 min in most lift lines most times of the day. But there are many other things that favor Aspen we have choice of 4 mountains, easier to get to, likely easier to both fly or drive into. Probably better weather.
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Aspen is pretty cool, especially with the free bus service. And they allow uphill traffic. If you want you can skin up to the upper lifts (where tickets aren’t scanned) and ski all day for free. Not many places allow that. Wish I could afford to live there.
 
I have visited Telluride in the summer, but have not skied there. Dan Hagan says people come to Tex to avoid the long lift lines in Aspen. But the new issue of SKI magazine is out and a poll of readers guess what, Aspen is rated the no 1 ski resort in the country, and one of the reasons is usually no real lift lines. We also have 4 mountains, 3 at town and one 10 miles away, and each has its own character, If you are a novice, Buttermilk right next to the airport is the best place to learn to ski I have ever found. Sign up for 3 to 5 days of group lessons and you will soon be at least able to ski on easy slopes with good snow. At the other end if you are a college racer there are plenty of double black runs to keep you interested and a special bowl to hike on top of Highlands, serious double black. And while you are not skiing you are at a major resort with good restaurants and shopping. You can fly private right into Aspen or United Express or drive from Denver in bout 5 hours or GJC in 3. And our weather is usually somewhat moderate, not a lot of wind in winter. Of course summer is great too.

Is there a downside to Aspen, yes it is expensive, but I never heard anyone who had just spent a week here say they wish they had stayed in Jersey. Like Dom Perignon cost more then Shiners and taste like it. A hint, if you find some place that is recommended for skiing, check what the weather is like, For instance it can be grey at Jackson Hole and windy on top of Breckenridge and not very pleasant that way.
 
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“Fly private into Aspen”

be careful with that. During Christmas-New Years, you probably won’t be able to park and will be told to go to Rifle and rent a car. Very limited space at both Aspen and Vail airports.
 
How much of the year is Christmas -New Years? Maybe 10 days out of 365? And unlike Aspen, there is no airport in Vail despite their pr.
If you don't need an instrument approach there is an airport in Glenwood Springs, 40 road miles from Aspen and served by taxi, uber.
 
Don't over think it, sometimes that is the worst thing a pilot can do. I've been there five times, in four different planes, and find it simple and easy to get in and out of. The air temp even in summer doesn't tend to be really hot, and in winter it is damn cold. You have over 7,000 feet of runway, which is a massive amount of runway in my opinion. Lean out your engine to best power during the run up, and relax, your not on 2000 feet of grass with tall trees at the end, and it isn't going to be 90F plus temps, it was a non-event in my flying experience.
 
Shuswap BC said:
Don't over think it, sometimes that is the worst thing a pilot can do. I've been there five times, in four different planes, and find it simple and easy to get in and out of. The air temp even in summer doesn't tend to be really hot, and in winter it is damn cold. You have over 7,000 feet of runway, which is a massive amount of runway in my opinion. Lean out your engine to best power during the run up, and relax, your not on 2000 feet of grass with tall trees at the end, and it isn't going to be 90F plus temps, it was a non-event in my flying experience.
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Thank you, that's exactly where I'm at -- between over thinking it and worried I might be overlooking some critical info. You came in from the Northwest when you were there?
 
He's right to a certain extant, just don't go unless the weather is good vmc. NO maybe weather in mountains that you are not familiar with.
 
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Bill Greenwood said:
I have visited Telluride in the summer, but have not skied there. Dan Hagan says people come to Tex to avoid the long lift lines in Aspen. But the new issue of SKI magazine is out and a poll of readers guess what, Aspen is rated the no 1 ski resort in the country, and one of the reasons is usually no real lift lines.
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Was just passing info I received from several skiers over the years. I do need to add that the Aspen line complaint was during the usual "kids Christmas break" time period. Now that mine is 24 years old, I plan on *NOT* vacationing during school break(s).
 
Tantalum said:
The week before Christmas last year


Call first, but I want to say $120 per night

Some pics below

FIRST, flight was from MYF.. most of the way everything under us was IFR.. GCN I believe was 200 OVC.. but it was breaking up fast
View attachment 79313

APPROACHING TEX FROM WEST.. you can see that the approach to 27 is NOT that daunting.. just keep it fairly tight: (left traffic, obviously)
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AFTER ARRIVAL AT TEX
View attachment 79315

We ended up being the only piston plane there.. there was a Piper turboprop there (Malibu conversion?) and a TBM as well
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Wow! beautiful pictures!

As funny as it may sound, I first heard of TEX when I got FSX many years ago. One of the missions has you flying a Lear-45 from roughly the Cones VOR into rwy 9. I loved that short mission so much. Then I found a DVD of a King Air 350 pilot flying from APA to TEX and back. One of my favorite cockpit DVDs! Then in my other flightsims I found out how beautiful Innsbruck Austria is (especially in VR).

So all of this has me wanting to takeoff and land at TEX at least once in my lifetime!!! However, I live in the Northeast and I do not own an airplane. Are there any options (flight school, etc) for me to take a mountain flying course, or just a "discovery flight", if I book a trip there one day? Preferably during fall/winter. Maybe I could plan it for next year 2020, bucket list present to myself. My birthday is in October, so that would probably work out.

Any ideas?
 
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There was somebody doing flight instruction at Telluride, but I'm not sure the business is still operating. Call the FBO for info. This page gives a decent primer:
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to...ide-airport-cliffs-downdrafts-and-turbulence/

As I said, you can do it, maybe just not on the particular day you had in mind coming or going. Winter IFR=icing+turbulence about 100% of the time, and you're very close to inhospitable terrain with no radar service. Plan the flight in with a back-up at one of the other airports if the weather is marginal. Can always move your plane over another day.

Jon
 
WiPilot said:
Thank you, that's exactly where I'm at -- between over thinking it and worried I might be overlooking some critical info. You came in from the Northwest when you were there?
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Have come at it from several directions, landed both directions to.
Lots of room to fly downwind, base, and final. Maybe it's because I learned to fly in British Columbia Canada, but I found it extremely simple. If you ever find yourself in BC, come to Mabel lake, land, and have a visit. I'll take you out flying, and show you some interesting places to land. You have a Cherokee six correct? They are actually a good plane for reasonable small strips, even grass or gravel. I do find that a common mistake made by people who usually fly into and out of lower airports, is they try to take off at full rich mixture, or barely leaned out. I lean out slightly in taxi, then do my run up and after mag checks, I lean it to max power, taxi into position and then take off. People who don't live in the mountains are scared to lean, or forget to. The engine is running so pig rich at even just 4,000 feet asl, imagine how much it is over fueled at 9,000.
And again it's cool up at Telluride, in mid summer, in mid afternoon you might get up to 75F. Any other season, morning, evening, it is more likely going to be 5F - 50F. You might find your density altitude is only 6,000 - 7,000 feet. In the Okanagan region where I live we can be at over 100F, 2,000 feet of grass, and 4,000 feet asl, but density altitude of 7,000. Those are the days that make your butt pucker. 7,100 feet of asphalt is like a pilot's dream airport for people like me. My home strip is 2,900 feet of grass, but in summer temps soar, and it still feel long to me. My last flight was to an airport with 5,500 feet of asphalt, and a parallel 1,600 feet grass strip. I purposely chose the grass runway. That particular airport has a tricky situation to it though, you can either come in over a steep hill right at the end of the airport, or be faced with it if you have to do a missed approach.
My home grass strip is either land uphill towards tall trees, or land downhill after coming in over the trees. But at 2,900 feet long the options are open. The mountains are not tight to the runways ends in Telluride either, you are flying off into open air with plenty of room for lazy turns once up. Biggest thing is to just remain calm always, panic is what kills pilots too frequently. Panic leads to poor decisions, poor decisions are deadly.
 
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Mtns2Skies said:
Eagle isn't very far at all.
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EGE is a 40 minute ride to Vail via interstate highway, less to Beaver Creek. For the cheapskates out there, you can take the ECO transit bus from the airport to Avon or Vail for all of $4. Excellent service and reasonable prices there. I got lucky with last weekend's snowstorm, because they were still on summer rates until Nov 1, so overnight in the heated hangar for my Mooney was $55.
Jon
 
The Eagle airport isn't very far from Eagle, however the ski area or resort are not at Eagle. And if you are flying into Eagle about 10 minutes more flight time will put you either at Glenwood Springs or Aspen. Vail is a major ski resort, if you don't mind a lot more people and much more of a urban atmosphere than Aspen. The same Ski mag in which readers rate Aspen no. 1 rates Vail 11. Eagle is to Vail about like Appleton is to Oshkosh.

The Aspen Airport is about 1/2 mile from BM ski area and 2 miles from Aspen or Highlands.
 
redtail said:
or just a "discovery flight", if I book a trip there one day?
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4CornerFlyer said:
There was somebody doing flight instruction at Telluride, but I'm not sure the business is still operating. Call the FBO for info. This page gives a decent primer:
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to...ide-airport-cliffs-downdrafts-and-turbulence/
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When I was there the airport seemed very sleepy and quiet to be honest.. on arrival and departure day I was the only traffic that I saw or heard and I didn't see any business or other stuff around the airport.. just the main building which also doubled as a small terminal building for the occasional commercial traffic
 
Had the opportunity to go to Telluride today which has beautiful weather and a 2.5 hour flight from El Paso, but need to finish up some work. Reason for the post is I did check hangar cost and it's $57 for the RV. I don't have a Tanis heater yet and they're getting down to 0* F at night. Hangar is heated to 45-50*. Room rates are now off season so they dropped from even last week's rates (Durango has as well)...
 
Shuswap BC said:
You have a Cherokee six correct?
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Correct, with 300hp injected IO-540. No turbo or anything, not sure if any Sixes even came that way but Lances and Saratogas did. Hence the concerns about altitude. I'd looooove to get up to Canada (and Alaska)...baby steps first.

danhagan said:
Reason for the post is I did check hangar cost and it's $57 for the RV.
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That's way better than $120! They could always move it in the night before I planned to leave once the weather forecast for the morning was sorted out.
 
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