Flying into Telluride. Tips?

narchee

narchee

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I've not flown into Telluride before. Any tips or suggestions? Looks like an interesting airport. Everything I've read says land 9 and depart 27. What is the primary reason for this? It's not really terrain you should be able to do a pattern to 27 if you needed to (see picture below) so is it more a factor of local winds and/or noise abatement?

18805.jpg
 
Here's a picture looking the other way (if you were to depart on 9).

Telluride-airport.jpg


People land on 27, I have, but I would think twice about taking off on 9.
 
I've been there twice both times in good weather.

The wind can howl down that canyon and make for some interesting low speed corrections. The second time I came in we had a heck of a wind from the SW so I aborted landing 9, and made left traffic for 27. I think it may be right traffic, but not sure. Either way, landing isn't an issue, but you do NOT want to take off into 9 unless you have a heck of a wind from the east which is very rare. Taking off 27 it's all downhill to the west, and even in the worst wind conditions you have room to play around out there. To the east, the canyon narrows and climbs pretty quick. I'm guessing you could take off with no problem, but then you're making some serious turns at low altitude.

KLAM is similar, except it's on the other side of the mountain.

<edited to correct runway num>
 
I've only been there in jets, but we've only ever done left traffic to 27. We keep the base pretty tight - for noise reasons we avoid flying over the town.

Beyond the DA, the hardest part about it (IMO) is that it's non-towered, which during a busy time can be challenging since you have a large variety of airplanes all maneuvering to land in a relatively small valley.
 
Just got back from KTEX. Had a fly-in for the weekend. A variety of aircraft from an LSA to Bonanza showed up. If you do not have mountain/high density altitude experience, I think you should get some before you go. Ktex is easy by mountain standards but you need a good level of knowledge about mountain flying to make it a safe trip.
 
narchee said:
I've not flown into Telluride before. Any tips or suggestions? Looks like an interesting airport. Everything I've read says land 9 and depart 27. What is the primary reason for this? It's not really terrain you should be able to do a pattern to 27 if you needed to (see picture below) so is it more a factor of local winds and/or noise abatement?

18805.jpg
Click to expand...

Message Fearless Tower, If I remember correctly he's flown there quite a few times. Nice guy as well!
 
There is room for a base and final on 27. Its a bit spooky if youve never done it before. You need a plane with plenty of power and a service ceiling of, well, get the ATIS and figure the density altitude. It can be as density altitude high as 14,000' when its hot. If you arent aclimatized to those altitudes, bring oxygen. A 182 and oxygen will do it just fine. It can be done in a 180 horse 172, but its a challenge. When its cold its a different less of a problem. Still, those mountains are pretty big. I once took off and climbed to the EAST and flew to Gunnison. That was high altitude for sure. The "pass" is over 13000'! You need decent climb rate up to 14k, minimum.
 
Since no one else has said it, I will. Don't come in short.

If you really want advice, take a few notes here, but watch all of the YT videos capturing arrivals and departures in TEX. Google Earth the airport and surrounding area. Read approach plates. Read the A/FD. I'm positive you're not the first one looking for advice about this field, search the internet for other forums and bits of advice.

If it's a CAVOK day, I wouldn't stress that much.
 
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Cpt_Kirk said:
Since no one else has said it, I will. Don't come in short.

If you really want advice, take a few notes here, but watch all of the YT videos capturing arrivals and departures in TEX. Google Earth the airport and surrounding area. Read approach plates. Read the A/FD. I'm positive you're not the first one looking for advice about this field, search the internet for other forums and bits of advice.

If it's a CAVOK day, I wouldn't stress that much.
Click to expand...
And if you're not used to flying mountains and high density altitudes, go find a good mountain CFI and take a lesson....or 3.
 
If you depart after dark, fly the SID!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
FloridaPilot said:
Message Fearless Tower, If I remember correctly he's flown there quite a few times. Nice guy as well!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the compliment. I have flown into TEX a few times in the last few years (in non-turbo airplanes), both summer and winter, although I'm sure Mari and the other CO pilots have been there more.

Here are a few of my thoughts on TEX: I don't think it is really a difficult airport as long as you are familiar with high DA operations and you treat it with the respect that it is due. You don't plan on a trip to Telluride in a piston airplane with a hard set schedule. I have cancelled as many trips to TEX as I have made. I only go there in good VFR weather. Never at gross weight. I am actually planning on stopping there on the 8th on my way out to Phoenix. But, I am prepared to go to Durango or ABQ if weather is iffy.

I can't say for certainty, but I believe the preference for landing on 9 vs 27 is the tight noise sensitive areas. The photo showing the view toward the town of Telluride should be explanation enough why you don't takeoff on 9. Like DocMirror said, taking off from 27 leaves you a much nicer path out without obstacles that helps unless you are over gross or their is bad weather.

You can certainly do Telluride in good weather without taking mountain specific training, but hopefully you have had some experience with aircraft performance at high DAs. I recommend reading Sparky's Mountain Flying Bible. It has some good advice and pointers for flying in the mountains and specifically weather phenomenon to be on the watch for.

Telluride is very easy to get to coming from Arizona/Utah/NW New Mexico. It can be a bit more challenging/require some mountain pass flying coming from the East.

Hope you are able to make the trip. It is IMHO one of the most beautiful places to fly.
 
I agree the biggest issue with TEX is making sure you are familiar with high DA performance issues. I always add a little extra safety margin to performance calculations with high DA airports compared to their sea level cousins.





Fearless Tower, Check your PM's
 
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When going to a new airport which is different than I'm used to, I will sometimes check their accident history.
Some airports seem to have the same recurring type of accident so it is occasionally useful to study these. (not sure about TEX)

Also notes from airnav, a few pearls:

Gradient: RY 09/27 GRADIENT FM NEAR MIDPOINT TO RY END 09 +1.5%; FM NEAR MIDPOINT TO RY END 27 -1.7%.
Operational restrictions: RY 09/27 RCMD TKOF RY 27; LAND RY 09 AND AVOID POPULATED AREAS. RY 09/27 GRADE -.08 ON RY ENDS, -1.3 TO APPROX MIDPOINT THEN +.75.
NOISE ABATEMENT PROCEDURES IN EFFECT. FOR MORE INFO CONTACT TEX CUSTOMER SERVICE 970-728-8600.
- NO SNOW REMOVAL AT NIGHT.
- RISING TERRAIN ALL QUADRANTS.
- ARPT ON 1000 FT MESA; STRONG VERTICAL TURBULENCE IN AREA OF MESA EDGE.

http://airnav.com/airport/KTEX/A#c

(in case you did not get this already)

.

.
 
Taking off 9 points you towards rising terrain. That can lead, and at that particular airport has led, to poor outcomes for some aircraft. Also the runway is 0.4% grade up to the east so you're taking off uphill if you depart 9. Still, if the winds dictated and performance allowed, I might use 9. Also takeoff 27 and land 9 is requested in the noise abatement doc.

Also beware of downdrafts from wind dropping off that mesa and don't freak out and pull back too much and stall it.
 
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Years ago I landed at TEX in a turbo Mooney in nice weather. Landed on 9; departed the next day on 27. Shortly after liftoff the cabin door opened so I made left traffic to land on 27. Both landings were very easy in a capable aircraft in nice weather.
 
Was there just this weekend. No issues with the Jabiru. Land 9 and take off 27. 27 is uphill but plenty long. DA was around 11000 when we left around 10am. Landing fee and tiedown charge. Tiedown is waived if you don't buy gas.
 

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Side note; If you have an engine pre-heater, bring your extension cords - TEX has electrical outlets at the tiedowns that you can plug into. Even in the early fall/late spring, it can get cold enough overnight to make preheating important.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Side note; If you have an engine pre-heater, bring your extension cords - TEX has electrical outlets at the tiedowns that you can plug into. Even in the early fall/late spring, it can get cold enough overnight to make preheating important.
Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks for the tip.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Side note; If you have an engine pre-heater, bring your extension cords - TEX has electrical outlets at the tiedowns that you can plug into. Even in the early fall/late spring, it can get cold enough overnight to make preheating important.
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You can see one just behind my plane in the ramp picture.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
When going to a new airport which is different than I'm used to, I will sometimes check their accident history.
Some airports seem to have the same recurring type of accident so it is occasionally useful to study these. (not sure about TEX)
Click to expand...

Interesting. In the last 15 years, there were 9 accidents and FOUR of those were due to either landing/taking off with a tailwind or strong crosswind.

I honestly don't care if there is a noise abatement procedure if this means I have to land with a tailwind. Crashing makes a lot of noise too. :D
 
narchee said:
Interesting. In the last 15 years, there were 9 accidents and FOUR of those were due to either landing/taking off with a tailwind or strong crosswind.

I honestly don't care if there is a noise abatement procedure if this means I have to land with a tailwind. Crashing makes a lot of noise too. :D
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A local friend say she won't fly if the xwind component is more than 10 knots. Too much turbulence sitting on that ledge.
 
dans2992 said:
If you depart after dark, fly the SID!
Click to expand...

Unless things have changed, they don't have night activity whatsoever.

ejensen said:
A local friend say she won't fly if the xwind component is more than 10 knots. Too much turbulence sitting on that ledge.
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I ski there twice a year for the past 20 odd years (week at a time). Wind can go from calm to massive to calm very quickly. They ought to eliminate the noise abatement ... the heli-lift, power gliders and drunks at night are much louder than we would ever be at pattern altitude.
 
danhagan said:
Unless things have changed, they don't have night activity whatsoever.



I ski there twice a year for the past 20 odd years (week at a time). Wind can go from calm to massive to calm very quickly. They ought to eliminate the noise abatement ... the heli-lift, power gliders and drunks at night are much louder than we would ever be at pattern altitude.
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Closed from 2100 - 0600 local. Winter dark at both ends. They do have good lighting.

Most of the noise abatement if due to ultra expensive home right below 27.
 
I departed after sunset in the winter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Here are the departure procedure and the LOC/DME approach.

TELLURIDE, CO
TELLURIDE RGNL (TEX)
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS AND (OBSTACLE)
DEPARTURE PROCEDURES
AMDT 2 11181 (FAA)
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 9, NA-obstacles.
Rwy 27, std. w/ min. climb of 463' per NM to 10500, or
5400-3 for climb in visual conditions.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwy 27, climb to 12000 via
heading 273° to intercept the ETL R-096 to ETL VOR/
DME, or for climb in visual conditions: cross Telluride
Airport westbound at or above 14300 via ETL R-095 to
ETL VOR/DME. Note: All aircraft cross ETL VOR/DME at
or above airway MEA/MCA for direction of flight.
NOTE: Rwy 27, trees beginning 32' from DER 421' left of
centerline, up to 100' AGL/9381' MSL. Trees beginning
173' from DER, 46' right of centerline, up to 100'
AGL/9094’ MSL. Light support structure 8' from DER, 60'
left and right of centerline, up to 4' AGL/9039' MSL.
Terrain beginning at DER, left and right of centerline, up to
9075' MSL.
 

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I don't see any other threads about flying into TEX in here, so I'm going to resurrect this 4 year old one. I'm debating a trip to TEX in February and am looking for general feedback. Is this realistic in a PA-32? The temperatures would be cold so I'm not really concerned with DA issues, but more looking at the feasibility of getting there from the east in winter.

Does anyone with knowledge of the area know where the best pass is to get across the continental divide in that area? I'd be approaching the mountains in the neighborhood of Denver, CO. It looks like there might be a pass to the south of Denver by Boulder, CO?
 
Corona Pass is just west of Boulder which is 20 miles north of Denver and a good place to cross the mountains, then go along the highway and valley till you get north of Telluride and come in from the west. Corona Pass is 11,660 ft so possible at 12,500 and better at 14,000. You then have 4 more airports on the way to Telluride.
Or if you don't want to go so far and want better skiing come to Aspen, just Corona Pass to Eagle and up the valley to Aspen. The Inn at Aspen is right next to the airport.
Telluride looks like the Swiss alps.
 
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No parallel taxiway.

Land 9 and the exit is in front of you. Depart 27 and you clear the runway sooner.
 
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I did left traffic to 27 due to winds. Also departed 27.
 
It's a great airport to visit and fine for winter operations if you are time-flexible. You may not be able to get in or out of there for days at a time with winter storms. If that's a problem, Montrose MTJ or Cortez CEZ are not that far away and have cars, other transportation options at MTJ.
They do clear the runway pretty quickly after a storm.
The airport is closed to most traffic at night. Lights are basically for medevac flights, not private or commercial operations.
Jon
 
D3063-FB2-1-D2-A-4-D38-B8-CC-614848-E89463.jpg


.4% grade, 9k MSL runway and it appears to be on a ridge so know which way the lee side is.

I’d also say at that elevation and location, disregard their noise abatement with PIC authority for the safety of flight. Fly it whatever way is the safest for you.
 
This all helps a lot, thank you! I've never been to the Swiss Alps, so I'm not sure if Bill was complimenting TEX or saying it's not all it's cracked up to be.

I especially found the article on different routes that was shared useful. I was a bit confusing in referring to the pass I was asking about, as I mixed up Boulder and CO Springs. I had meant CO Springs south of Denver; from the article it looks like that might be what's called Wilkerson pass? If so, is the general consensus that that pass is not recommended?

My last questions revolve around general weather patterns. 4 Corner says TEX can get snowed in for days at a time, which I suppose makes sense for something at that elevation. How about the passes themselves? Do they sock in for long periods of time during the winter, or do they generally clear out pretty quickly due to winds? The article seems to imply that if one pass is socked in, another is usually(?) viable. Agree/disagree with that?

In Wisconsin it's not uncommon to see 600' OVC for a day or two at a time in the winter. When it's 10 deg F. on the surface that's a no-go day. So I'm trying to gauge if the general weather conditions are the same, better, or worse than what I'm most familiar with.

Oh, also...on the topic of not being on a rigid schedule...is it realistic to just show up in Telluride in February and find a hotel room same day? I would want to avoid hard-date reservations if possible.
 
WiPilot said:
is it realistic to just show up in Telluride in February and find a hotel room same day
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I would think so. The nice this about Telluride is that it's a bit off the beaten path so it doesn't tend to be as much of a tourist destination trap as other CO ski towns.. plus there are really two Tellurides, the old town and the newer resort area. My friend and I stayed in the old town and had no problem with rooms, even changing our accommodations the day before we went

As far as weather, maybe I got lucky but the day we arrived it went from hard IFR, to IFR, to marginal VFR, to total VFR by the time we landed.. and stayed clear blue skies the whole 4 days

PS.. I would recommend paying the extra money for a hangar. We stayed outside and had the plane plugged into one of the heaters, however the whole plane (sans engine) was covered in a layer of frost.. so our early morning departure became a late morning departure as we we were rotating the plane to keep her in the sun and melt the frost off
 
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