Flying in Arizona

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skippy101

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Jeff
Hello everyone. Lets talk here about flying in Arizona!

I fly out of Scottsdale. I think I have almost hit every airport in Central and South AZ. Only KFLG, KSEZ, and KPAN to the north...
 
What'ya want to talk about? I'm. A third generation AZ aviator (although currently living in Virginia courtesy the USN).
 
The valley is a busy place. Time for you to spread your wings and check out the coast.
 
I am heading to Tucson for three weeks in early February, so I will fly in AZ.
 
It's a dry heat. Except in August when it's not dry.

Lots of MOAs and military training areas. Huge, not-very-welcoming Class B around PHX, with lots of traffic squeezed in around the perimeters.

Intensive flight training, often with foreign students, around several airports, notably DVT, GYR, IWA.

Get acquainted with the Special Flight Rules Areas around the Grand Canyon and in the vicinity of Luke AFB, just west of the PHX Class B.

Fly early in the day. Heat, turbulence, and sometimes diurnal thunderstorms, increase in the afternoon.

Google "haboob".

Enjoy flying in Arizona. It's spectacular.
 
Very cold the last few nights but forecast calls for 70's later this week, what were you saying about the east coast Geico? :wink2:
 
I fly AZ - moved here 19 years ago today from EGAD (google it !!) for work and better flying weather
 
skippy101 said:
Hello everyone. Lets talk here about flying in Arizona!

I fly out of Scottsdale. I think I have almost hit every airport in Central and South AZ. Only KFLG, KSEZ, and KPAN to the north...
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Recommend La Posada in Winslow for lunch, just north of the airport ...always worth a flight
 
Calexico has a decent Mexican restaurant on the field, and an outlet mall across the street if your flying companions are into shopping.
 
Bar 10 ranch in the Grand Canyon also looks interesting as well.

If you're going up North, meteor crater and monument valley are also interesting.
 
dans2992 said:
Bar 10 ranch in the Grand Canyon also looks interesting as well.

If you're going up North, meteor crater and monument valley are also interesting.
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+1 for monument valley, we do that most thanksgiving, also Page, if you fancy pushing north a bit more, Bryce and Kanab.
 
Been thru Arizona a couple of times. Didn't land though.
 

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Walboy said:
I'm from AZ and enjoy getting out of the PHX area due to high volume of training aircraft. The traffic situation is one reason I think I'm going to comply with ADS-B out early so that I can get a picture with ADS-B in. There are times when things are so busy, PHX approach doesn't call out traffic in a timely matter.
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I have a plane at Falcon Field and fly about 3 - 4 times a week for fun. I have rarely had traffic issues. I was a flight instructor for 8 years out of Falcon and know the training patterns of just about all the schools in the whole area. I don't teach any more although I still keep my CFII and CFI current. I just fly for fun now.
ADS-B won't help you much since not everyone has it and NEVER expect traffic control to be your look-out. Always use your own eyes and get on the right frequency for the training areas of the valley. 122.75 for the north of the valley basically from I-10 out on the west to US 60 out on the east. Everything north of that is 122.75. Everything South of that is 122.85. Then if you are on the north east, south east, south west or north west of the valley they will call out the part of the area they are in. Listen to that and you will have your own make shift TCAS system knowing where people are near you.
 
BTW does anyone have their own plane that ever flies to places with anyone else? I am looking for people to fly my plane along with, either loose formation or even just meet at a specific time at other airports around Arizona.
For example I know there is a group of RV owners that go to Payson on Saturdays for breakfast. I've been there a few times eating breakfast when they all fly in about the same time.
 
josh1usa said:
I have a plane at Falcon Field and fly about 3 - 4 times a week for fun. I have rarely had traffic issues. I was a flight instructor for 8 years out of Falcon and know the training patterns of just about all the schools in the whole area. I don't teach any more although I still keep my CFII and CFI current. I just fly for fun now.
ADS-B won't help you much since not everyone has it and NEVER expect traffic control to be your look-out. Always use your own eyes and get on the right frequency for the training areas of the valley. 122.75 for the north of the valley basically from I-10 out on the west to US 60 out on the east. Everything north of that is 122.75. Everything South of that is 122.85. Then if you are on the north east, south east, south west or north west of the valley they will call out the part of the area they are in. Listen to that and you will have your own make shift TCAS system knowing where people are near you.
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Josh, I disagree with you, just because someone else doesn't have ADS/B doesn't mean you won't see them. I have it in my plane and it has literally saved my life once when I had traffic on it, couldn't see the traffic, and ABQ Center didn't tell me about it. Just my 2 cents.
 
Walboy said:
I'm from AZ and enjoy getting out of the PHX area due to high volume of training aircraft. The traffic situation is one reason I think I'm going to comply with ADS-B out early so that I can get a picture with ADS-B in. There are times when things are so busy, PHX approach doesn't call out traffic in a timely matter.
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Whenever I fly into Phoenix I almost always go IFR and fly into PHX. I have never had an issue IFR. I'm not a big fan of VFR flying around the PHX area.

So much has changed since I grew up flying with my dad in the Phoenix area. He learned to fly at Sky Harbor and used to keep the Lance at PHX back when there was still a decent GA presence.
 
My first-ever visit to Phoenix was in July (!) 1987, flying a C-172P into Sky Harbor on a business trip from LA. Easy, in those days. (I almost said "no sweat," but in truth there was a lot of sweat. As I said, it was July. :p )

Inbound to PHX I took the photo below of the Caterpillar Proving Ground, just because the lettering in the dirt was interesting. The proving ground is gone now, making way for the community of Verrado, where my son and his family now live. Weird how things work out.

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Departing PHX that afternoon a haboob was approaching from the east. On takeoff from 8R I asked ATC for a westbound turn ASAP and skedaddled out of there.

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Now with family living in the Phoenix area we fly down there three or four times a year. When the kids lived on the east side we parked at either IWA or FFZ; now that they're on the west side, we go to GYR.
 
Pilawt said:
Lots of MOAs and military training areas. Huge, not-very-welcoming Class B around PHX, with lots of traffic squeezed in around the perimeters.
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I've never had any issue with the PHX Class B, including when I landed there. In fact, ATC was very helpful and accommodating. May have just been a slow day.

dans2992 said:
If you're going up North, meteor crater and monument valley are also interesting.
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Monument Valley is an awesome trip. I did that over the Thanksgiving weekend with my dad and it was great.
 
LevelWing said:
I've never had any issue with the PHX Class B, including when I landed there. In fact, ATC was very helpful and accommodating. May have just been a slow day.
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Back before I got my IR and before the Superstitions crash, PHX TRACON could get downright hostile with VFR traffic. It has improved since the crash.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Back before I got my IR and before the Superstitions crash, PHX TRACON could get downright hostile with VFR traffic. It has improved since the crash.
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When was this? I don't have my instrument rating yet so I've only flown VFR in there and they've been helpful. This has only been in the past couple of years though.
 
LevelWing said:
When was this? I don't have my instrument rating yet so I've only flown VFR in there and they've been helpful. This has only been in the past couple of years though.
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It was right around Thanksgiving 2011. A Twin Commander departed FFZ VFR at night under the Bravo and flew into the mountains.

While not directly responsible for the crash, the general difficulty in getting VFR services out of Phoenix TRACON was brought to attention and they became noticeably more VFR friendly after that.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It was right around Thanksgiving 2011. A Twin Commander departed FFZ VFR at night under the Bravo and flew into the mountains.

While not directly responsible for the crash, the general difficulty in getting VFR services out of Phoenix TRACON was brought to attention and they became noticeably more VFR friendly after that.
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That's more recent than I thought. You definitely have to be careful in the valley at night, especially if you aren't familiar with the mountains around there. I started flying in that area after that so that might explain why the controllers are helpful.
 
I've crossed AZ in little planes. And overnighted in Winslow!
 
Havasu is good, don't know if the BBQ joint is still at the field.
 
The cafe at Marana (KAVQ) is still there and is pretty good as is the one at Ryan Field (KRYN).
 
pmanton said:
Oh no the Italian food is gone from Falcon the BBQ gone from Havasu
They're dropping like flies.
Paul
Salome, AZ
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The place at Falcon moved to an off airfield location and I understood that has closed as well. Food was ok but the prices were crazy for what it was, it was always busy when I was there
 
retpd2001 said:
Josh, I disagree with you, just because someone else doesn't have ADS/B doesn't mean you won't see them. I have it in my plane and it has literally saved my life once when I had traffic on it, couldn't see the traffic, and ABQ Center didn't tell me about it. Just my 2 cents.
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Is it not the pilot's responsibility to "see and avoid" other aircraft? I had simply commented on someone who was saying Phoenix Aprch doesn't always call out the traffic for you, and they seemed to want to rely on ADS B instead. I also offered the highly overlooked solution by many GA pilots to get on the practice area frequency and monitor and even transmit your position to be safe. That and your eyes are far more effective than relying on PHX Appr and having your head in the cockpit looking at ADSB or a GPS. Besides, if a privately owned GA plane is flying around without any GPS onboard at all and certainly no ADS B, then how is it going to report/transmit out it's GPS precise location for ADS B to pick it up? You will not see it because your ADS B won't pick up any GPS position reported by the other aircraft without a GPS receiver and/or ADSB.
 
Using the "practice area frequency" is of little help for out of towners...
 
Walboy said:
Seriously?

A good deal of the practice areas and large amount of training traffic is within Phoenix's Mode C veil. Almost everyone I know flies with their transponders on. Won't a properly ADS B out equipped airplane within line of sight of ADS B towers be able to pick up traffic equipped with only transponders?

All I know is that I see traffic on my buddy's 530W well before I see them with my eyes in many cases and is a huge safety enhancer in my opinion.
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Yes, the ADSB-IN is getting ABSD-R or rebroadcast from the towers or your 530W is recieving TIS-B if the PHX area still has TIS-B. It is being phased out as adsb comes online.

The ADSB-R is adding the transponder only targets to the -IN data stream.
 
Scrabo said:
The place at Falcon moved to an off airfield location and I understood that has closed as well. Food was ok but the prices were crazy for what it was, it was always busy when I was there
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The bread pudding with whisky sauce at Anzio's was to die for.
 
My airplane went to stellar airpark when I sold it. Apparently an upscale fly in community with lots of restored beautiful aircraft plus sharp new ones. A P51 ( susu) crashed there a couple of years ago. It was based there.
 
Scrabo said:
Really ???
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That's what I thought. I grew up within 2 miles of Stellar. I do not recall anything 'upscale' about the place back then other than a few houses around the field had hangars with airplanes in them.

When I was in the area last (a year ago) I didn't specifically drive into Stellar, but the whole area surrounding it is just a sea of concrete.
 
Walboy said:
You're just wrong on that, sorry. I have flown in this area for more than 30 years.

All I can say is during my commercial check ride debrief, the DPE who administered the check ride with 20k+ hours told me about a mid air collision he had with another airplane with a CFI in it. His point was if it can happen to highly experienced aviators like them, it can happen to anyone. This incident happened south of Phoenix with everyone walking away. It definitely got my attention.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Small-plane-down-in-Chandler-after-mid-air-collision-172893631.html
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The guy who did my private, instrument and commercial checkrides was in that airplane, as was a friend of mine. Unfortunately it is a fact of flying in this area, and before that accident happened I probably didn't take it seriously enough.... no one where I flew out of did. CGZ is a nuthouse, but again that is a fact of living here and flying here and a fact I live with as a CFII.

Every area has its own challenges. Phoenix has heat in the summer and traffic volume. I have done a lot of flying in the midwest too and their challenges (wind, thunderstorms, ice) are different but challenges still exist. For those of us that learned here, it's just part of it. I love flying here.
Just coming home from a day-trip to Vegas last week
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My airplane is hangared at CHD, but you can find me at SDL approximately 40 hours a week ;)
 
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