Flying Club Thoughts

kjwalker01

kjwalker01

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
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114
Location
Denver, CO
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Display name:
Keith
Recently got back into flying and am actively working on an IFR. The place that I'm flying out of sent an email that they are converting to a flying club in a few weeks. $50 upfront and $30/mo for existing customers. Rental rates will stay the same for members, at least initially.

The rates don't seem bad, but I'm curious as to opinions on this. Anything to be concerned about?
 
Well, three of the typical advantages of a club versus an FBO/school are lower hourly rates, lower or no overnight minimums, and increased availability with fewer pilots. It doesn't sound like you're going to be getting any of that, and just adding a new cost.

It may still be your best or only option, depending on where you are, but are you getting anything positive out of this new fee?
 
Well...a REAL flying club would cost a lot more. Try this: Entry fee of $3,500 (give or take), $180 / mo. dues, and occasional assessments. Our website: http://8ballfc.org/jm/

The benefit? Really nice planes at killer prices. Example:

* Like new 6 pass Saratoga...new paint, new leather inside: $132 wet Hobbs

* Really nice 172 with all the bells and whistles, including traffic - $115 wet Hobbs

And this is in LA, where everything costs way more.

My guess is you won't get much benefit for such a small investment.
 
kjwalker01 said:
Recently got back into flying and am actively working on an IFR. The place that I'm flying out of sent an email that they are converting to a flying club in a few weeks. $50 upfront and $30/mo for existing customers. Rental rates will stay the same for members, at least initially.

The rates don't seem bad, but I'm curious as to opinions on this. Anything to be concerned about?
Click to expand...
I guess it sort of depends on what "initially" really means, but right now it looks like they want you to pay for nothing.
It would make more sense for them to ask for a lot more to buy in, then provide lower rates and some sort of optimized scheduling. Never heard of a flying club such as you describe...
 
I agree with the above - doesn't seem like much of a "club" based on what you describe, seems more like an FBO trying to get more money out of the renters.

A more typical club would be an equity-based club, where when you buy in, you actually own a share of the airplane(s). Of course, these cost more to buy into, like in the thousands. But with ownership, now you can sell your share (depending on club rules) when you leave. Typically an advantage is fewer people using the airplanes, less wear and tear, nicer planes, hopefully the others treat it like they own it (as in, treat it nicer than renters). Downside is when there is maintenance, the bill is split among the owners (you).

A non-equity club like the one you're describing would only have any benefit if it resulted in lower hourly rates for club members, or some other reason to pay a monthly fee to belong. I've seen clubs where the rental rate is discounted say 10% for club members, so if you fly above a certain number of hours a month, it's a good deal. Otherwise not.

It doesn't seem like this "club" is giving you much benefit.
 
Clubs often are a great way to get access to better airplanes and better people than you would with sole ownership. And as a newer or returning pilot, you both don't know yet what you wish to purchase and don't know the ins and spits and costs of owning/maintaining.

Check out the club I am part of by clicking the link below.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66485
 
Are there any insurance benefits to being a member? Do you become a named insured or will you still need renter's insurance?

Scott
 
Flying clubs out my way are ... interesting. The same rental prices as FBOs (perhaps there's a difference in insurance, not sure) so essentially they want up-front fees & monthly fees so I can add a few people to my Facebook friends list. No thanks. ;)
 
l8evator said:
Are there any insurance benefits to being a member? Do you become a named insured or will you still need renter's insurance?
Click to expand...

There are some out there that explicitly state that you become named insured, and only need renter's insurance if you're also renting planes from somebody else. While I think this is the norm, I wouldn't take it for granted.

Also, given that flying clubs are often run by people who aren't professional administrator types, it's always possible that even a well-meaning club's leadership doesn't fully understand its own insurance policy, so it's worth double-checking the source documents.

But in the general case, yes, chances are you wouldn't need renter's insurance.
 
l8evator said:
Are there any insurance benefits to being a member? Do you become a named insured or will you still need renter's insurance?

Scott
Click to expand...

For MetroFlyers, you become part of the policy. Covers most/much of what you'd want/need for hull and liability.
 
Not sure why you would buy in to a club and pay a monthly fee ,if you don't get a break on the rental rates. Believe the fbo is just trying to get a positive cash flow in this tough economy.
 
AggieMike88 said:
For MetroFlyers, you become part of the policy. Covers most/much of what you'd want/need for hull and liability.
Click to expand...

Our Chandelle equity club in Austin carries an Avemco liability and hull damage policy that covers all members.

I personally find the the per seat liability a bit low, so I buy a renters policy that provides additional liability coverage on any airplane I fly, including the club planes.
 
Appreciate all of the input. I'd only be blindly guessing as to the owner's reasoning. I'm taking the approach that I like the instructor a lot, and they're one of the few in the area with steam gauges on a couple of 172s, so I'll just deal with it for now, then will probably do some G1000 training and checkout elsewhere after my checkride.
 
'Flying Club' is a label frequently abused by FBO owners and other operators of plane rental businesses. If you didn't put in any equity and you can't vote for a board of directors, it is not a club. Different motivations to call it a 'club':
- stable revenue from the monthlies to have a revenue stream for the fixed expenses during bad weather months.
- getting around airport regulations as to what is required of a FBO.
 
For me, having tried many FBO's, a Flying Club is a great way to fly nice planes at rates that are 20% or so lower than FBO planes. And most of the FBO planes I've seen are very rough around the edges...not plane's I'd use to take friends up.

Flying Clubs help defray the cost and the hassle of ownership, while providing some of the benefits.
 
rbridges said:
maybe the planes aren't getting flown much and the FBO is trying to generate cash flow.
Click to expand...

Ditto, the FBO is looking to make an extra $360 a year on each of its customers. Whether that's a good deal depends on what the competition offers.

I'd be concerned the the business is experiencing cash flow issues and the business may be in trouble. Thankfully he's only asking a $50 buy-in.
 
The term "flying club" is a loose one and can mean different things to different people at different times. The bottom line is does it make economic sense to get whatever benefits you'll derive from being a member.
 
KJ,

Small world, I think we are in the same 'club'.
 
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