Flying Club Bill Pay System

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WaarrEagle

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
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21
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Houston, TX
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WaarrEagle
My 50 member flying club is currently processing paper checks from all members and it appears to be not only administratively burdensome but we are also having issues with checks getting lost in the mail and/or misplaced during the manual deposit process at the local bank.

The benefit of the current system is no fees and access to a local bank, but I'm wondering if anyone is aware of any online services that would enable e-checks, auto-deposit via direct mail to the bank, credit card processing as long as we can bill any fee to the payer, etc. Anyone have any suggestions on how to bring this process into the new age of technology?
 
I'll be watching this thread. I'm struggling with it too.

I know QB will allow electronic payments but I'm not sure about the fees involved.

I'm considering a Paypal account that is linked for receipt and instructing members (14) to choose "send money to friends and family". I'm not sure if 14 payments per month would raise a EULA concern.
 
For what it's worth you might consider going the credit card route. Put a pencil to it. Do the credit card fees outweigh the hassles you are going through now?You may want checkout sites like Schedule Master that manage it for you.
 
I can't answer this from a business perspective but my bank has the option of 'transferring' money to someone's account just by using their email address. I don't recall there being any fees but don't quote me. I do know it was pretty dang convenient.
 
Talk to your current banker about ACH transfers. No muss, no fuss. Members simply give you their checking account and bank routing numbers, you then upload one batch of ACH transactions per month and the deal is done. The batch file can be created easily using a combination of QuickBooks and Excel. Bank fees for this are very minimal.

IMO you want to avoid credit cards. Fees have come down but it's still 2-3% AFIK. Multiply 3% times your club's annual revenue. Do you really want to flush that much money down the toilet every year?

The bank should also be able to secure the ACH account interface by limiting the maximum amount per batch, the maximum number of batches per month, etc. So no one will be able to get access to your ACH account information and rip off your members. Low probability event anyway, but it's worth a little work to make it even lower probability.
 
Get a lockbox account with your bank.It"ll cost some fees but you'll get rid of the need to process checks.

Many of the bigger banks give you free ACH deposits off a mobile device. A scanner through the bank to do the same is something silly like $200/month.
 
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ACH is pretty common for Business to Business. Consumers tend to be a little fearful of it, but it is really pretty risk free. There are also P2P (person to person) services like Venmo, that will do free transfers up to $2,999. https://venmo.com/
 
@airdale describes a"pull" transaction. For my club I prefer a push transaction. We are an equity club and the flexibility of when the member pays is important. Within reason of course.
 
weilke said:
Get a lockbox account with your bank.It"ll cost some fees but you'll get rid of the need to process checks.

Many of the bigger banks give you free ACH deposits off a mobile device. A scanner through the bank to do the same is something silly like $200/month.
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No need to process checks at all with ACH direct debit of members' accounts. Also no third party service to screw around with.
 
Ravioli said:
@airdale describes a"pull" transaction. For my club I prefer a push transaction. We are an equity club and the flexibility of when the member pays is important. Within reason of course.
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Yes. The club I am familiar with would email statements directly from QB during the first week of the month and the debit was scheduled for the 20th or the first subsequent business day. That gave members up to two weeks to review the statements for issues. Some members, of course, would not sign up. IIRC maybe 20%.
 
PayPal might have some options as well
 
We use Sharezen to keep the accounting up to date and each member has their own way to transfer money (electronically) and credits themselves for the payment. I end up summing up the transactions every few months just to keep things honest.

For a club of your size I'd really want some sort of "pull" billing option. Would seriously consider small business accounting software.
 
Our club uses Quickbooks and invoice by email at the first of each month. Owners and renters can remit payment by personal check or credit card.

Credit card transactions charge a 3% fee, so anybody who chooses to use that method gets 3% added to their bill.

If you're doing all of the financials by hand, then you definitely should invest in some type of program, that's a very tedious job.
 
Like @Ryanb, my flying club uses Quickbooks to keep up with things. Treasurer makes entries once a month for dues and rental costs, and invoices each club member by email. Most members pay through e-check (we don't accept credit cards due to the cost) and the cost to the club is very small (like $0.50). A few still mail their payments.
 
Our club used to send out statements and then users would send in their payment, either paper check or via the electronic invoice. We had a large problem with late pays.

A few months ago we went to an ACH system, where the members automatically have the amounts deducted from their accounts. It works great. I don't need to do anything to send in a payment, and late pays have been drastically reduced (currently the ACH system is an option). Also, it's a lot easier on the finance officer, who is like every other board member, a volunteer.
 
airdale said:
No need to process checks at all with ACH direct debit of members' accounts. Also no third party service to screw around with.
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That is for the members willing to give you ACH authorization. There is a suprising number of old farts whose only way to know how much beer money they have left is by looking at the register in their checkbook.
 
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weilke said:
That is for the members willing to give you ACH authorization. There is a suprising number of old farts whose only way to know how much beer money they have left is by looking at the register in their checkbook.
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I suppose it depends on the club. The one I am familiar with had about 10%, at most 20%, of members not wanting to participate in the ACH. It didn't tend to be heavily old farts; it seemed to be more young people on tight budgets who could not be sure their checking balance would be adequate every 20th when the funds were taken. The number was slowly being whittled away by making ACH the default option for new members. Still, 80% participation saved a huge amount of clerical work.
 
I am the treasurer and we pay 50 cents per draft for each member who uses it. No minimums.

It auto posts into QBs and it is great.

I still get 4-6 checks per month.

I had a member who asked me to use the CC option since he gets 1% back. I told him we were charged 3% and I would have to add that to his bill. He uses the draft without complaint.
 
eman1200 said:
I can't answer this from a business perspective but my bank has the option of 'transferring' money to someone's account just by using their email address. I don't recall there being any fees but don't quote me. I do know it was pretty dang convenient.
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No fees at my bank when transferring via email address

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
texasag93 said:
I had a member who asked me to use the CC option since he gets 1% back.
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As a merchant, it is depressing how many people think that "cash back" or other CC perks are just a freebie from the CC company...

More accurately described as... the merchant is going to charge you at least 3% more than they otherwise would, on average, and we'll give you back some of it.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
As a merchant, it is depressing how many people think that "cash back" or other CC perks are just a freebie from the CC company...

More accurately described as... the merchant is going to charge you at least 3% more than they otherwise would, on average, and we'll give you back some of it.
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May be true for a mom and pop shop, but everywhere else u pay the same amount whether u pay via credit card or not

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WannFly said:
May be true for a mom and pop shop, but everywhere else u pay the same amount whether u pay via credit card or not
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You're paying more whether you pay cash or not. Only gas stations and a few other places charge different amounts.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
You're paying more whether you pay cash or not. Only gas stations and a few other places charge different amounts.
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Depends where you're at. Some gas stations offer a cash only price and many times, that is what's advertised. If you're unaware of this and use a credit or debit card, you might think you're paying the price per gallon on the sign, when in fact you may not be. A big reason why 'cash back' is offered for fuel purchases.

Large retailers don't do this. The price listed on the shelf doesn't change whether or not you pay by cash or credit, although I'm sure they have a fudge factor built into the price as you say, but the actual charge still remains the same.

Sorry to derail the thread...back to the topic. :D
 
The reason it relates to this thread is that until just the last few years, the CC companies prohibited the merchants from charging more for using a CC. A few did anyway and got away with it, but it was rare until the CC companies lost a major court battle.

You can legally charge more to CC users, so it could be worthwhile to the club to setup a Square or PayPal account so they can accept CCs if that is what the member prefers. Might get paid faster too in some cases. Charge 2.5% or 3% more, let them get their 1-1.5% cash back and some folks are ok with paying 1-1.5% net fee for the convenience of not paying that bill (possibly) until the next CC billing cycle comes around, or maybe they're ok with carrying a CC balance (not your problem, as long as you get paid).
 
Someone already beat me to mentioning that you didn't used to be able to charge more for CC transactions vs cash, it used to be in the card processing agreements. It's pretty much gone now, but worth a careful read of your processor's rules.

A LOT of small businesses use Quickbooks I've noticed, but there are alternatives to it that have good reviews. The processing fees are often where those all in one accounting and payment processing software packages compete heavily so it's worth looking around if you don't already have an accounting package you like. Many also can assess late fees automatically and re-invoice late payers, etc.

All depends on how you want to run things. I'm planning on playing with a few so if I come up with any insights as to what I like, I'll share in a new thread sometime. My goals are to be able to handle CC payments, charge more for it, and also invoice from a mobile device, preferably iOS/Android agnostic with a decent app for each, not a web page. And also not get completely screwed on monthly costs. I can pass on CC transaction fees and make that clear up front, but most systems have a monthly on top of that and as a part timer, seeing an hour of pay go up in smoke per month to have nice software tools, isn't going to happen.

As far as ACH goes, I like ACH for must-pay items, but I wouldn't authorize a monthly ACH for discretionary spending. I want to sit down and see those happen in real-time. I'll gladly do one-time ACH with vendors I trust over and over again, as long as I'm in the "pay now button" driver's seat. Even with an automated budgeting system that pulls data from my accounts. Spending on the light bill and propane bill? Going to do that no matter what. Automation for those. But a club payment? No. I don't do those on autopilot usually. I waffle a bit on that one, but most of the time the best you'll get from me is a credit card number that I can contest the charges if needed. Have only needed that twice in two decades but when you need it, you need it, on the "consumer" side of those transactions.
 
denverpilot said:
... A LOT of small businesses use Quickbooks I've noticed, but there are alternatives to it that have good reviews. ...
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Agreed. Peachtree is one that I think is superior to QB. I also think Intuit is a slimy company and would prefer to not do business with them.

BUT --- there is an important consideration that I frequently warn my small business consulting clients about: Do you want to pay your CPA or your tax preparer to become familiar with an out-of-the-mainstream accounting package that you feel is superior to QB? This can be very expensive and, as a small client, it will be almost a recurring expense, paid every time you have to interact with your professional. Said another way, CPAs and tax preparers are almost universally very familiar with QB, leading to my conclusion that it is not a good idea to go off into uncharted territory. Even if you find one who knows Peachtree, do you expect that he/she will be your support person forever? If not, will you be able to find another Peachtree expert who also meets your other selection criteria?

For a flying club, this may be somewhat moot if the Treasurer is filing the IRS990 him/herself. There is no need for professional help. But even here, the next Treasurer is far more likely to be familiar with QB than he/she is likely to be familiar with the "superior" accounting package you have chosen.

So, reluctantly, I recommend QB to almost everyone.
 
I started using Square www.squareup.com for accepting payments for classes I teach. But still haven't chosen an accounting app for book keeping (still using spreadsheets). I used QB for consulting for years and had love/hate relationship with it (more hate than love). So, I'm still looking for free or almost free app for simple book keeping.
 
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airdale said:
Do you want to pay your CPA or your tax preparer to become familiar with an out-of-the-mainstream accounting package that you feel is superior to QB?
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My accountant and his team accept five different software packages, and don't have any preference. Maybe it's four plus a custom CSV format if you like CSV brain damage or have your own bookkeeping system. Either way, he's thankfully not Quicken/Intuit centric.

Out of the ones he not only can accept, but are integrated with his tax prep system, it looks like Freshbooks is leading the pack of non-Quicken/non-Intuit software. Direct import.

I haven't started my own evaluation of it yet, but reviews are also generally positive.

If using any of the five packages his system will integrate with, his system becomes both a repository for data from each, and also a document/filing system. He has six years of my tax data and forms so far (while still providing me with hard copy) in an easily accessible web based file structure that I can even pull up on my phone, if forced to. Phone is a little small for docs. But it works.

Lovely system he uses. I don't know what it is on his end, but flawless PDFs generated for everything and his cover letters, instruction letters, etc. All very nicely done.

One of those awesome references from a friend who's had his business accounting with the guy for years and years. So glad I asked.
 
We use QB Pro. Cash or checks only. Many members use their online bill pay to cut checks that are mailed to our PO Box. We encourage members to keep funds on account with the club. Their account gets charged for their flying through QB and they are notified by email or in person at the airport when their accounts get low.

50 member club. Treasurer has about 1-2 hrs work after the weekend depending on the activity.
Getting flight times into spreadsheet for glider maintenance tracking and invoices into QB.
Deposits are made weekly. We do not bill dues monthly, that is too much work. Dues are paid annually along with SSA dues. The club cuts one check to SSA at renewal time.

With QB Pro, monthly activity reports for balances and cash flow (Monthly P & L) are instantaneous.
Member accounts balance report is published weekly.
 
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