Flying and Guns

txflyer

txflyer

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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
I was wondering if it is an issue or a non-issue when I throw a shotgun, a couple of pistols and maybe a hunting rifle or AR-15 in the back of the plane and fly up to the ranch?

If I'm ever ramp checked, should I know anything special, or expect any hassle out of the inspector about the guns? Thanks in advance. :)
 
txflyer said:
I was wondering if it is an issue or a non-issue when I throw a shotgun, a couple of pistols and maybe a hunting rifle or AR-15 in the back of the plane and fly up to the ranch?

If I'm ever ramp checked, should I know anything special, or expect any hassle out of the inspector about the guns? Thanks in advance. :)
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I don't know the answer, but I do it all the time and I never worry about it.
 
You just have to obey the local State laws of where ever you land.
 
If you're ramp checked, the FAA guy shouldn't be looking in your plane anyway. All you have to show him is paperwork, not your baggage. And if it's a DEA/DHS/Ministry of Truth stop, you're going to end up getting hassled mercilessly anyway.

Obviously have everything unloaded, cased and tied down and comply with local laws, other than that it's not much different than carrying guns in your car.
 
Try to not land in the one remaining state that thinks the second amendment sucks.
 
Norman said:
Try to not land in the one remaining state that thinks the second amendment sucks.
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Has something recently changed? I thought CA and NY and CO all had draconian laws about black plastic guns.
 
It's not a big deal even if you are. If you break the gun down, and put it in a duffle bag no one will be the wiser - although not really sure why one would want to.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
Has something recently changed? I thought CA and NY and CO all had draconian laws about black plastic guns.
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Ours are just about black plastic magazines so far. And we're about to recall another State Senator over it.
 
denverpilot said:
Ours are just about black plastic magazines so far. And we're about to recall another State Senator over it.
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CO deserves a high five for that!

high_five_640_30.jpg
 
Old Geek said:
I live in CA and have no problem keeping a pistol in my mountain survival bag.
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By black plastic, I meant something along the lines of an AR-15 or other similar weapon of mass destruction.
 
It's not the FAA's concern unless you try shooting it from the plane. It could become the NTSB's concern if you are dumb enough to have it loaded in flight and it is inadvertently discharged. Beyond that, you need to know the state/local laws where you land.
 
Still need to start that list of airports with shooting ranges within walking distance...
 
Ron Levy said:
It's not the FAA's concern unless you try shooting it from the plane. It could become the NTSB's concern if you are dumb enough to have it loaded in flight and it is inadvertently discharged. Beyond that, you need to know the state/local laws where you land.
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I may have been born at night, but not last night. ;)

In TX, guns are like cell phones.

Everybody's got one. :D
 
Ron Levy said:
It could become the NTSB's concern if you are dumb enough to have it loaded in flight and it is inadvertently discharged.
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I usually am carrying (loaded, holstered) when I fly, especially when XC. For some reason, I haven't had a AD/ND while flying. My guns must be defective...
 
txflyer said:
I was wondering if it is an issue or a non-issue when I throw a shotgun, a couple of pistols and maybe a hunting rifle or AR-15 in the back of the plane and fly up to the ranch?

If I'm ever ramp checked, should I know anything special, or expect any hassle out of the inspector about the guns? Thanks in advance. :)
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I've never had a issue, besides what in your plane is non of their damn business, just put your firearms in a soft case and that's that.

Q "What's in that case?"
A "personal property"
 
GauzeGuy said:
I usually am carrying (loaded, holstered) when I fly, especially when XC. For some reason, I haven't had a AD/ND while flying. My guns must be defective...
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No, you're just lucky. And not flying with me -- no rounds in the chamber in my plane. I'm just not worried about Abdul bin Terrorist coming down out of the sky, landing on my wing, opening the canopy and hijacking me while I'm cruising along at 130 knots and a few thousand feet.
 
It may be legal to fly in my plane with a gun, but evidently it is illegal to bring it into my hangar at my home airport. There is a sign posted that says just that.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, you're just lucky. And not flying with me -- no rounds in the chamber in my plane. I'm just not worried about Abdul bin Terrorist coming down out of the sky, landing on my wing, opening the canopy and hijacking me while I'm cruising along at 130 knots and a few thousand feet.
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Is a loaded chamber less safe in an airplane than on the ground?
 
denverpilot said:
Still need to start that list of airports with shooting ranges within walking distance...
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My old airport, 32S allows hunting and shooting on the airport grounds. Not uncommon to rotate and see orange dots all around.

The airport just south, 6S5 has a shooting range at the airport port.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Of course not....but stashing guns with chambered rounds in cars and houses is not a real smart thing either.
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You should tell that to the cops, military, etc

I find firearms function far better with a round in the chamber :goofy:
 
bqmassey said:
Is a loaded chamber less safe in an airplane than on the ground?
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It is then a calculated risk -- the chance of unintended discharge vs immediate need to use the weapon. There is no immediate need t use the weapon in my airplane (or any other where you control who gets aboard) and hence no return in keeping the weapon loaded in flight.
 
Ron Levy said:
No, you're just lucky. And not flying with me -- no rounds in the chamber in my plane. I'm just not worried about Abdul bin Terrorist coming down out of the sky, landing on my wing, opening the canopy and hijacking me while I'm cruising along at 130 knots and a few thousand feet.
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It's not luck at all, it's training and common sense. I have carried firearms for almost thirty years, on duty and as a private citizen, and never had one go off when not intended. This is because I follow the basic and obvious rules of firearm safety. Guns have no will of their own and don't "just go off", and the firearm does not know it's in an airplane and should change that behavior.

There is nothing wrong with an over abundance if caution and not allowing chambered firearms in your plane if you so desire, but there is equally nothing wrong with responsible people having loaded guns on a GA airplane. To call such actions dumb is just...dumb. I guess Sky Marshals and the commercial pilots authorized to carry loaded guns are just nut bags.
 
bullwinkle said:
It's not luck at all, it's training and common sense. I have carried firearms for almost thirty years, on duty and as a private citizen, and never had one go off when not intended. This is because I follow the basic and obvious rules of firearm safety. Guns have no will of their own and don't "just go off", and the firearm does not know it's in an airplane and should change that behavior.

There is nothing wrong with an over abundance if caution and not allowing chambered firearms in your plane if you so desire, but there is equally nothing wrong with responsible people having loaded guns on a GA airplane. To call such actions dumb is just...dumb. I guess Sky Marshals and the commercial pilots authorized to carry loaded guns are just nut bags.
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I'm with Andy's first sentence. I carry a Glock that always has one in the chamber; eliminates having to rack the slide in an emergency when time is super critical. The Glock is not for an inexperienced shooter and must be treated with utmost respect. Mine is constantly holstered and in the fifteen years I've carried it there have been no unexpected occurrences. Gun safety is what the holder of the weapon makes it.
 
Norman said:
I'm with Andy's first sentence. I carry a Glock that always has one in the chamber; eliminates having to rack the slide in an emergency when time is super critical.
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Please explain to me the emergency which would require you use your Glock that fast in your airplane in flight.
 
Norman said:
. The Glock is not for an inexperienced shooter and must be treated with utmost respect. Mine is constantly holstered and in the fifteen years I've carried it there have been no unexpected occurrences. Gun safety is what the holder of the weapon makes it.
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Basically any pistol you're going to buy has been drop tested by the manufacture. Guns don't "just go off" that's for the movies, or a poorly modified/butchered gun.

12128. As used in this chapter, the "drop safety requirement for handguns" means that at the conclusion of the firing requirements for handguns described in Section 12127, the same certified independent testing laboratory shall subject the same three handguns of the make and model for which certification is sought, to the following test:
A primed case (no powder or projectile) shall be inserted into the chamber. For pistols, the slide shall be released, allowing it to move forward under the impetus of the recoil spring, and an empty magazine shall be inserted. For both pistols and revolvers, the weapon shall be placed in a drop fixture capable of dropping the pistol from a drop height of 1m + 1cm (39.4 + 0.4 in.) onto the largest side of a slab of solid concrete having minimum dimensions of 7.5 X 15 X 15 cm (3 X 6 X 6 in.). The drop distance shall be measured from the lowermost portion of the weapon to the top surface of the slab. The weapon shall be dropped from a fixture and not from the hand. The weapon shall be dropped in the condition that it would be in if it were dropped from a hand (cocked with no manual safety applied). If the design of a pistol is such that upon leaving the hand a "safety" is automatically applied by the pistol, this feature shall not be defeated. An approved drop fixture is a short piece of string with the weapon attached at one end and the other end held in an air vise until the drop is initiated.
The following six drops shall be performed:
(a) Normal firing position with barrel horizontal.
(b) Upside down with barrel horizontal.
(c) On grip with barrel vertical.
(d) On muzzle with barrel vertical.
(e) On either side with barrel horizontal.
(f) If there is an exposed hammer or striker, on the rearmost point of that device, otherwise on the rearmost point of the weapon.
The primer shall be examined for indentations after each drop. If indentations are present, a fresh primed case shall be used for the next drop.
The handgun shall pass this test if each of the three test guns does not fire the primer.
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On a side not, I've always viewed the glock as a beginners pistol, most cops who don't have a shooting background are issued them, many first time pistol buyers are recommended to go with the glock route. Now a SVI Infinity, that's not a entry level pistol :wink2:
 
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ChitDisturber said:
Basically any pistol you're going to buy has been drop tested by the manufacture. Guns don't "just go off" that's for the movies, or a poorly modified/butchered gun.
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Well or a crappy design. Ask Springfield about their XDS recall.

But the problem in that case happens when the round is chambered without the grip safety engaged. So if it's already loaded and in a proper holster, nothing happens.
 
Ron Levy said:
Please explain to me the emergency which would require you use your Glock that fast in your airplane in flight.
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Probably safer to carry and leave holstered then to have your average meatbag rack the gun empty without accidentally shooting something.
 
Ron Levy said:
Please explain to me the emergency which would require you use your Glock that fast in your airplane in flight.
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If you are properly trained and you carry all the time, you want the weapon to be in the same configuration. If it's safe to carry in a car, it will still be safe to carry in an aircraft and you won't have to change it's configuration depending on which one you happen to be in at the time. Like we used to say in the military, you train the way you're going to fight. For carrying, you train the way you're gonna carry and you carry the way you trained.
 
Some of the revolvers with a hammer and firing pin, not a transfer bar, if you drop it on it's hammer with a round in front of it, it can discharge.

I keep all but my most personal snub .38 that's hidden unloaded, because we have grandkids and kids and dogs and other idiots that don't know **** from shinola about guns running around. I couldn't live with myself if a kid hurt himself with one of my guns.
 
The gun won't go off by its self but a human can do something stupid and cause it to go off. True, it probably won't happen but once is all it takes.

I keep a pistol and two loaded magazines in my nightstand, I figure there's a 1 in 1000 chance I'll ever use it for self defense... and probably a 1 in 10 chance I'll be using it to defend farm animals from coyotes or foxes or some other predator. No reason to risk leaving it chambered, I can have a mag in and the slide back almost as fast as I can think it anyway.
 
ChitDisturber said:
You should tell that to the cops, military, etc

I find firearms function far better with a round in the chamber :goofy:
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Uh, dude I am in the military and have carried a condition 1 weapon (and used it) likely far more than you have. We don't leave our weapons lying around the place with rounds in the chamber.

I also know of firefighters and countless kids who are DEAD because some idiot thought it was a good idea to leave a weapon with a chambered round lying around the house or stuffed in a closet.

There is a time and place to chamber a round. If you are not able to properly distinguish when that time and place is, then you probably shouldn't possess a firearm.
 
Show and tell.

These hang in my office, unloaded, and the ammo is locked away in the safe.


.220 Swift with wide field scope and ND3 laser designator (it's a hog killing, zombie night slaying machine)
.250 Savage custom with Mauser bolt action ( I guess Dad killed a kraut for it ;))
30-06 Whitetail Nightmare
 
ChitDisturber said:
Guns don't "just go off" that's for the movies, or a poorly modified/butchered gun.
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They do when the house (or aircraft as the thread suggests) is on fire and the round in the chamber cooks off. That sort of thing has killed firefighters before.

Again, it goes back to the need vs risk. It takes me less than a second to chamber a round in a pistol. Why on earth anyone (other than a very select few who do so as part of their work duties) have a need to carry a condition 1 weapon in an aircraft is beyond me.
 
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