Flying after a DUI

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squirrels

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squirrels
I know I am probably going to get a lot of negative comments and things like that, but any honest advice will be greatly appreciated. I am currently 19 years old, I turn 20 in June. A few days ago I was arrested(not yet convicted, haven't been to court yet) for a super extreme DUI in Arizona. I am getting a lawyer to help with the situation.

I have always loved flying and after college was considering pursuing a career in flying. I was really just wondering how this would affect my chances of flying for a regional airline, possibly a major airline, or flying on the corporate side of things. If you have any advice of where I could get more help, tips on how to handle the situation, or things I can do to make the best out of things, please let me know. I'm currently attending Arizona State University on a scholarship with chemical engineering as my intended major but am considering changing it to something more aviation related. In high school I was in flight school for long enough to complete my first solo flight, but never received my license.

I know I really ****ed up, but am just looking for advice right now. Like I said honest opinions will be greatly appreciated. This situation scared me and I will definitely be working hard in the future to make the best out of the situation.
 
Give up the booze, it has f-d you up on what you want to do. Others will be along to tell you how you can make this work. Some will say the FAA is too tough on this subject, but that won't help you fly. Listen to Dr B or Dr Fowler if they post here.
 
Forget about flying part, you screwed up just driving drunk. There's no excuse. It's worse because you're a pilot and are held to a higher standard.

The answer is never again and only you know right now if that means no more drinking. I'll admit that's my standard - if I have to drive to get to where I'm sleeping, then it's not even one. That's not because I'm worried about, but because I'm going to eliminate any possibility of it happening.

It's not fatal. You can get a medical under your conditions and it probably isn't even as painful as it should be. But you should expect abstinence as a way of living because you've shown a lack of responsibility here. You didn't handle it, you need to fix that.
 
You beating the criminal charge isn't going to mean much to the FAA. You're going to have a tough road to certification and I guarantee that it will involve being totally abstinent from alcohol and being tested to prove it. If you can't do that, you might as well give up now before you waste a lot of money. Despite what you hear, there's never really a pilot shortage for the majors and your history will put you at a disadvantage between people who were able to keep themselves sober.
 
squirrels said:
...for a super extreme DUI in Arizona
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Does "super extreme" mean a high BAC? If yes, what was it?

The BAC recorded into evidence for your arrest will have some bearing on what the FAA will ask of you to maintain your medical certificate.

And I wonder if being under age will create its own set of future career challenges.
 
OP: Sorry this happened, everyone makes mistakes but unfortunately sometimes there are consequences for those mistakes. Based on the description of "super extreme DUI" it's likely you will have to go through the whole HIMS route. As others have mentioned this board is full of HIMS tales so you can review those. If I were you I would contact one of the AME's on this board for a consultation. If you consult another AME, make sure you ask them if they have successfully seen applicants with a similar situation as yours through the medical process. They can then provide you with information you can trust.

If you want to pursue becoming a professional pilot you can probably achieve it but it will likely be expensive, time consuming and frustrating so you need to decide if it's worth it and if you want to go down that path. If you will be satisfied with flying for recreation look into Sport Pilot.

I would focus on finishing up the ChemE degree and then evaluate the industry and your options after that...

Best Wishes!
 
The best thing you can do for yourself is to quit alcohol completely. It is clear that you are not able to handle it. If you were over 0.15, you are in for a long road if you want to fly again. Be thankful that you did not kill anyone.
 
Basic Med isn’t even an option at this time for recreational flying to finish your ppl. At least for a few / 2 years from when the case is settled.

Focus on your engineering degree. Maybe start digging to see what it would take to sort this out. You’ll have to be a college student with not one drink. No pot, nothing. And prove it.

What is worse than no hope is false hope. Good luck.
 
squirrels said:
yes I did. it was only a 3rd class medical certifiate.
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Another question is whether your student pilot certificate has expired. This is important, because if it has not expired, then as I understand 14 CFR 61.15(e), you will have to report any motor vehicle action, as defined in §61.15(c), to the FAA within 60 days of the action.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...c75eae099&mc=true&node=se14.2.61_115&rgn=div8

§61.15 Offenses involving alcohol or drugs.

(a) A conviction for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of final conviction; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.

(b) Committing an act prohibited by §91.17(a) or §91.19(a) of this chapter is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for a certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of that act; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.

(c) For the purposes of paragraphs (d), (e), and (f) of this section, a motor vehicle action means:

(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;

(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or

(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.

(d) Except for a motor vehicle action that results from the same incident or arises out of the same factual circumstances, a motor vehicle action occurring within 3 years of a previous motor vehicle action is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of the last motor vehicle action; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.

(e) Each person holding a certificate issued under this part shall provide a written report of each motor vehicle action to the FAA, Civil Aviation Security Division (AMC-700), P.O. Box 25810, Oklahoma City, OK 73125, not later than 60 days after the motor vehicle action. The report must include:

(1) The person's name, address, date of birth, and airman certificate number;

(2) The type of violation that resulted in the conviction or the administrative action;

(3) The date of the conviction or administrative action;

(4) The State that holds the record of conviction or administrative action; and

(5) A statement of whether the motor vehicle action resulted from the same incident or arose out of the same factual circumstances related to a previously reported motor vehicle action.

(f) Failure to comply with paragraph (e) of this section is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of the motor vehicle action; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.​
 
Not trying to downplay your DUI. I’d start with your attorney right now, see where things end up.

I know a girl from 20 years ago, near the 1st time she drank she killed another. It was one supreme screwup.

Some act like a pilot can’t even look at a cold IPA, not the case. One just has to plan ahead some, use your head.
 
Some act like a pilot can’t even look at a cold IPA, not the case. One just has to plan ahead some, use your head.
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In some cases that's true, in this case it isn't. As long as you don't have a diagnosed substance abuse disorder, the FAA doesn't care if you drink as long as you don't do it proximate to flying or allow it to progress to the a disorder.

However, in this case he does have what the FAA is going to define as a substance abuse disorder (based on the old DSM-IV definitions that the FAA lives and breathes by). To come back from that is going to mean COMPLETE ABSTINANCE. If he can't commit to that, he doesn't have a chance for a pilot career.
 
Consult a good aviation attorney to know your real and viable options.

it is different than an attorney to handle the driving issues.

the FAA has totally different definitions and standards than ANY one else, that is why you need an attorney specialized in FAA medical issues, which is what you are facing.

properly handled, this is not a show stopper. It IS an issue. Some people have to overcome the fact they can’t fly worth a crap... we all have something. This is going to be one of your “somethings”.
 
FAA medical certification is an administrative process, more so than a medical one. ESPECIALLY if it’s substance abuse related.

I’d talk to Joe Lorusso in CO first.
 
Tools said:
FAA medical certification is an administrative process, more so than a medical one. ESPECIALLY if it’s substance abuse related.

I’d talk to Joe Lorusso in CO first.
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He should talk to either Dr. Bruce or Dr. Lou before engaging the lawyer.
 
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So from a FAA standpoint do they weight underage drinking DUI differently then a regular “of age” DUI???
 
I'm curious -- @bbchien

If you get a 3rd class/student pilot cert, and the medical expires are you still eligible for Basic Med? Or do you have to have a 3rd class AND PPL to be Basic eligible?

It's of interest to me because my girlfriend has had a 3rd class but her student pilot cert is expired. Can she do Basic, get another student cert and continue, or does she need another 3rd first?

[She doesn't have the DUI issue, and is unlikely to ever have such an issue, but someone in the thread implied that you can't do basic with a student cert]
 
Ravioli said:
I'm curious -- @bbchien

If you get a 3rd class/student pilot cert, and the medical expires are you still eligible for Basic Med? Or do you have to have a 3rd class AND PPL to be Basic eligible?

It's of interest to me because my girlfriend has had a 3rd class but her student pilot cert is expired.
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Student pilot certificates never expire now. If she has the old yellow piece of paper with a combined student certificate and medical, she can apply for a new student certificate with the help of her CFI.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/student_replacement/

She can then go on Basic Med as long as her medical is within the last ten years.
 
WDD said:
Basic Med isn’t even an option at this time for recreational flying to finish your ppl. At least for a few / 2 years from when the case is settled.
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Has he provided enough details to determine that?
 
DesertNomad said:
She can then go on Basic Med as long as her medical is within the last ten years.
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It not the past ten years, it's the ten years prior to the passage of the federal law that enabled BasicMed. In other words, she has to have had a valid medical at any point since July 15, 2006. As long as that condition is met, it's OK if it is expired.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/media/basicmed_faq.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/basic_med/
 
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Having lost someone to a drunk driver, I have no empathy for you.. Not having the smarts to use Urber or Lyft when drinking, well lets just leave it at that.

Extreme DUI in AZ... Mr Google tells me you're going to be a guest at the Grey Bar Hotel.. pay some large fines, community service, addiction education, and have one of the devices installed in your car...
Don't waste your time with a lawyer.. they are just going to pick your pocket and in the end you're still going to pay a fine, be remanded to the system, and have some other stuff to deal with. I don't care what the adverts say and now-a-days they have this down to a science. Question, did you blow at the scene and then again at the cop shop?

Be thankful you didn't kill someone and not being charged with felony DUI.

If it were me, wanting to become a pilot would the be the least of my worries right now.
 
benyflyguy said:
So from a FAA standpoint do they weight underage drinking DUI differently then a regular “of age” DUI???
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An arrest for drinking fits into the DSM-IV problem regardless of age. The FAA is concerned with that and more concerned if the BAC is high (>= .15) because that indicates tolerance which is a bigger problem.
 
Ok, I gotta ask..... what is a ''super extreme DUI''.??

What defines a ''super extreme DUI''.??

Is that an official charge.??
 
Zeldman said:
Ok, I gotta ask..... what is a ''super extreme DUI''.??

What defines a ''super extreme DUI''.??

Is that an official charge.??
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One could GTS...
What is an Extreme or Super Extreme DUI/DWI Charge in Arizona?

If an individual is arrested with a BAC level between 0.15 and 0.19 percent, it is considered an Extreme DUI in Arizona. An Extreme DUI has harsher consequences, which include increased fines, jail cost and other fees. These penalties differ for a First Extreme DUI and a Second Extreme DUI.

In Arizona, a Super Extreme DUI is when an individual is arrested with a BAC of 0.20 or more. The legal limit allowed in Arizona is 0.08%, so a Super Extreme DUI is two and a half times the legal limit and carries even harsher penalties and fines.
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So... BAC over .20.

Wow.
 
A Super Extreme DUI, with blood alcohol level 0.20% or more, requires a minimum jail term of 45 days. For an Extreme DUI conviction in Arizona, with BAC between 0.15% and 0.20%, the minimum jail term is 30 days. For a standard DUI in Arizona, the minimum jail term is 1 day.

Getting the rest of your life sorted out is going to be a much greater concern than getting your pilot certificate.

The fact that you are able to function at all with BAC over 0.20 is going to (as it should) make it very hard to convince the FAA that you are safe to fly. It is clear that you have made some poor choices and almost certainly have a serious problem with alcohol.
 
Note, that the "legal limit" is not .08 in Arizona. At 0.05% or less you are presumed to NOT be under the influence. At 0.08% or more, you are presumed to be. Between those levels, other indications fo the influence of intoxication have to be shown (but the BAC can be used as part of that evidence).

Note for those under 21, any measurable amount is illegal in AZ. For CDL drivers, 0.04 is illegal.
 
DaleB said:
One could GTS...

So... BAC over .20.

Wow.
Click to expand...

Wow is right! I had to look that up, and it would take a 180lb man 10 drinks to get to .20, not allowing for any metabolization (so probably more than 10 unless you chugged them fast). I wouldn't be driving (or walking or standing) after that.
 
Advice for the OP. Do get a lawyer, plead guilty and try to get the lesser charges. That should be your main concern right now - minimize the jail time.

Thank your lucky stars you didn’t kill or injure yourself or others.

You likely will need to report this to the FAA, as noted. And with complete abstinence, enough money and time in the HIMS program, and a lifetime of monitoring, you probably can go on to be a pilot.

Many people make very bad mistakes when young and drinking. I wish you the best on your road to recovery and forgiveness. You still have a long life ahead of you and will put this behind you.
 
Advice to the OP: Comply with 61.15 as pasted a ways up by Richard Palm (Palmpilot). If you don't the suspension of your Student Pilot Certificate itself is CERTAIN. If you don't comply they will DEMAND it back, backed ultimately by the US marshall service.
 
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