Fly to an intersection on an approach plate when cleared for the visual?
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Ravioli
Ejection Handle Pulled
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FTFY
Plano Pilot
Line Up and Wait
Even back in the day before GPS I would get direct to the LOM, Compass Locator at Outer Marker, then cleared for the visual. Nothing new.
aterpster
En-Route
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aterpster
More straight-forward in those days, because the ILS runway didn't also have a "200 and 1/2" LPV approach.
TRocket
Line Up and Wait
Yesterday, as I approached KSUS (Spirit of St. Louis near St. Louis) on an IFR flight plan, I was told to expect the visual to 26L. Right before being switched to the tower I was told to fly direct to EAVES and was cleared for the visual to 26L.
I punched EAVES into my GPS and all was well, but then I tried to find it on my IFR low-level chart in Foreflight & couldn't find it. But, when I typed it in the search box a box popped up that said 'Named Intersection' and showed the Lat/Lon coordinates.
When I got home I researched it and found that EAVES is the LOM for the ILS 26L approach. I thought that was odd the controller cleared me direct to a point on the ILS approach when I wasn't flying the ILS. It worked out OK since my GPS could find it, but what if I wasn't GPS equipped? How would I have known to look for EAVES on the ILS approach chart? Or, did they give it to me knowing I had a GPS and could easily find it?
Always something new on every IFR flight
Learned this the hard way, shortly after getting my IR ticket, had filed IFR on a CAVU day. Got cleared direct to a fix (had not been cleared yet but expecting a visual) into GMU. Couldn't find it on the chart and unfortunately for me, could NOT get it on the 430 either. Finally told the controller, who was not impressed, told me it was the LOM for the ILS and just gave me vectors.
roncachamp
Final Approach
You can always ask.
It's common to set aircraft up for visual approaches by having them fly to approach fixes until they report the field in sight. But you were given EAVES along with the approach clearance, some time after you reported the field, correct? Odd.
roncachamp
Final Approach
He's probably ADF-equipped though.
roncachamp
Final Approach
I’m pretty sure the order was:
after a little time between each.
- expect the visual for 26L (I was already cleared direct to the field)
- proceed direct to EAVES (the ILS FAF)
- cleared for the visual
Step 2 is what threw me. Now I’ll know to watch out for instructions like this
A step is missing; the report of sighting the field or the aircraft to follow. That has to precede the visual approach clearance.
SbestCFII
Line Up and Wait
Yesterday, as I approached KSUS (Spirit of St. Louis near St. Louis) on an IFR flight plan, I was told to expect the visual to 26L. Right before being switched to the tower I was told to fly direct to EAVES and was cleared for the visual to 26L.
I punched EAVES into my GPS and all was well, but then I tried to find it on my IFR low-level chart in Foreflight & couldn't find it. But, when I typed it in the search box a box popped up that said 'Named Intersection' and showed the Lat/Lon coordinates.
When I got home I researched it and found that EAVES is the LOM for the ILS 26L approach. I thought that was odd the controller cleared me direct to a point on the ILS approach when I wasn't flying the ILS. It worked out OK since my GPS could find it, but what if I wasn't GPS equipped? How would I have known to look for EAVES on the ILS approach chart? Or, did they give it to me knowing I had a GPS and could easily find it?
Always something new on every IFR flight
It made for an easy 5 mile final (more of less) to the assigned runway. Sometimes when I'm cleared for visual on an IFR flight, I'll load the approach to the assigned runway in the GPS myself and go direct to FAF on my own.
mulligan
Cleared for Takeoff
The Garmin NXI has visual approaches. Load them all the time when told to expect visual. Love them!!
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
What exactly does it load? A generic visual approach, like it puts up a straight in course line? If so, what waypoints does it put up? All of them on the final approach course for all the approaches to that runway or just some of them? What about Charted Visual Approaches?
It’s the same thing I said in my post. He’s talking about the Cirrus Perspective avionics. Straight magenta line aligned with runway heading. No waypoints. I prefer to load an ILS or LPV because it will give me vertical guidance, especially at night.
mulligan
Cleared for Takeoff
There are two options. Straight in and vectors to final. They basically give you an iaf that sets you up for a glide slope. Have been flying them coupled and by hand but a great tool to have the glide slope on the fms
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Does it put up the FAF for one of the Instrument Approaches to that runway?
James331
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James331
THAT
I ALWAYS back up a visual with the approach, Ill go VTF so I get guidance, also helps keep you from landing on the wrong runway or a taxiway.
mulligan
Cleared for Takeoff
I believe the fix names are straight which is like the FAF and the other is another generic point which is like the iaf.
I will video it next flight
Best part is, when you are cleared for the visual you just hit activate approach and it takes care of everything.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Cool. Looking forward to seeing that.
bcool
Pre-takeoff checklist
Yeah, at 2a I reported the field in sight.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Amazing it's not decom'ed.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Or oddball ground landmark references nobody knew who wasn't a local... or an airport directly under the ILS...
"Ranch for the Right..." as they used to say at Stapleton, long after Sky Ranch Airport was closed...
Why? Compass locators are dirt simple to keep maintained. Much easier than the rest of the ILS.Amazing it's not decom'ed.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Yup. No argument there. You’d have to ask FAA why they’re not fixing them and removing them when they break. The two models I’ve seen, any idiot could repair that transmitter with no brainpower even engaged and a brazing rod for a soldering iron. LOL. Nothing high tech about them.
My theory for a while now on all the decomming of simple and useful stuff is that they don’t want to pay the telecom bills to MONITOR all of it or repair the old muxes. A number of these things get an Unmonitored NOTAM on them for a while before they get pulled.
aterpster
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aterpster
Not really. The LOM is generally five miles from the airport, and sometimes difficult or even dangerous to get to for maintenance.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Pfft. Tell a cell site guy that and they’ll laugh at you. The NDB transmitter can be serviced at ground level and isn’t installed on a monopole.
And every RF person has to drive bad roads and deal with that, or even grab the occasional chopper ride or snowcat ride to get there. Big yawn.
I’d take a year of NDB maintenance over a year of cell site maintenance any day of the week. Much easier.
What are the weenies in Ops telling you people in the office about this stuff? It ain’t that hard. Did you guys hire some new man-bun site techs? LOL.
The real problem is the probably don’t know RF and the NDB transmitters aren’t “swap a card” to fix them. Might even need to know something about ... gasp... TUBES! And be able to read a schematic...
aterpster
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aterpster
I’m repeating FAA policy.
The reverse happens too.
Yesterday a friend and I were returning to our home base, KTTA under IFR and I decided to don the hood to get in an approach. While still speaking to Greensboro (at least two controllers away), I told them I planned on doing the GPS 3 approach, and asked for "Direct OCHOC when able." OCHOC is an IAF. In this case, it is on the low en route but, it not being in his sector of the sky, he asked me to spell it and once he had that, asked for my on course heading to it.
Yesterday a friend and I were returning to our home base, KTTA under IFR and I decided to don the hood to get in an approach. While still speaking to Greensboro (at least two controllers away), I told them I planned on doing the GPS 3 approach, and asked for "Direct OCHOC when able." OCHOC is an IAF. In this case, it is on the low en route but, it not being in his sector of the sky, he asked me to spell it and once he had that, asked for my on course heading to it.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
So did you give him your 'course' or the holding heading for that course? Yeah, I know, different subject.
Heading, of course. I told him to stand by for a few minutes while I reset my altimeter to 29.92 so I had true airspeed, call Flight Service for a current winds report, and pull out my trusty cardboard E6B to calculate it.
comanchepilot
En-Route
A) it was probably for spacing.
B) I always have the approach in use set up on my 530w, just not activated.
C) when flying in the central valley in Calif in winter, I usually try to fly to the FAF and then to the runway because visibility is usually anywhere from 2-4 miles - so when VFR its just easier. I also request alot of special VFR into some of the towered airports in the Valley because its just easier - 1 miles and clear of clouds is very simple, especially when you fly the LPV approach to the runway from some intersection . . .
B) I always have the approach in use set up on my 530w, just not activated.
C) when flying in the central valley in Calif in winter, I usually try to fly to the FAF and then to the runway because visibility is usually anywhere from 2-4 miles - so when VFR its just easier. I also request alot of special VFR into some of the towered airports in the Valley because its just easier - 1 miles and clear of clouds is very simple, especially when you fly the LPV approach to the runway from some intersection . . .
mulligan
Cleared for Takeoff
I️ did not video but took these pictures so you could see the two setups. They provide vertical guidance as well which is nice.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Thanks for taking the time to do that. I see it 'plots' out a suggested 'flight path' to follow based on the direction you are coming from. It'd be interesting to see if it does it the same way to a controlled airport. I'd think twice about following that FINAL to STRAIGHT teardrop back to FINAL 'ad hoc procedure turn' without having a little chat with Approach and/or the Tower about it first. What are the circumstances where it throws that up? The first two pics dont show what's loaded. The last three show either VTF-KAUO-VISUAL 36, or KAUO-VISUAL 36.I️ did not video but took these pictures so you could see the two setups. They provide vertical guidance as well which is nice.
mulligan
Cleared for Takeoff
As soon as you hit PROC activate vectors to final that all clears up
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Ah. Got it. Still has the Visual Approach loaded but your telling it you plan on doing it a more convetional way. Anyway, it doesn't load up some fixes along the final approach course to help you along if the controller gives you 'direct' to a published fix to turn final from. You have every right to say something to the effect of "you told me to expect the visual, I don't have time to find and load that fix now, just give me a heading to fly until I turn final."