Flu shot? shingles

Just cruising this thread a thought occurred to me... It always amazes me how people who have no real working knowledge of something can act as an authority and have such strong opinions....Maybe a pilot forum isn't the best place to get info on vaccines.

Like some others have said the best place to ask these questions is in your MD's office or at the pharmacy. Health care's main model of care has changed a lot lately. They try to encourage more of a team approach to patient's decision making- with the patient being the center of that decision team. It's called patient centered medical care.

A good provider should (and will) be able to show you hard medical facts based on studies or statistics that show the actual value/risk benefit for any medicine or procedure.

I will boil down some of the simple truths about the Flu/Flu shots:
-You cannot get the Flu from the flu vaccines
-Like others have said, they use statistics and trends to "guess" what exact strains are in the vaccine based on what they think will be around year to year. Even if they strike out and it's not as effective as it could have been it is much more effective than nothing
-Influenza kills about 5,000 people a year. True, mostly old or young. But you can certainly transmit
-Flu, even though it probably wont kill you if your in relatively good health, is not fun and causes you to waist a lot of time being sick
-The flu shot is really, really safe and their are minimal side effects

I could do similar fact stating for the shingles vaccines but you probably get my point. Talk to your MD or pharmacist. That's why they are there and what they get paid to do. If they seem not to take your questions seriously or don't answer satisfactory then it's time to find a new MD or pharmacy.
 
Of course the flu can kill. We all know about the pandemic of 1918. That was a century ago and it hasn't recurred but it could at any time. But the odds of it occurring any one year are pretty low. Then there is the odds your scientists will guess which of the ever changing strains will be the big one. It's far from guaranteed your flu vac would even do anything against the big one if it comes. But consider this, every year close to an equal number of people dies in the U.S. from cancer as died in the U.S. during the once in a century flu pandemic. Which are you more worried about?

The 1918 flu was an anomaly in more ways than one. Unlike normal flu it tended to kill young, healthy adults. So if our vaccination program focuses on protecting the elderly, we might be targeting the wrong population anyway if another monster flu is what we fear.

If normal flu is what we fear, look at the actual protection you are getting. It depends on whether the flu going around your particular community is the strain they used for the vaccine. Here is some factual information about its effectiveness:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/why-flu-vaccines-so-often-fail

But here is the glaring piece all of you are ignoring: Oppotunity Lost. When we spend millions on a program with mediocre at best effectiveness, that money is not being used for something that would give us much better benefit.

Some of you keep saying the shot is free or almost. You know better than that. The cost is going into your high insurance premiums for one thing.

I'm not an anti-vac nut. But I pick my vaccines with care. I don't appreciate public policy transferring money from my pockets to big pharma or corrupt government officials, based on mediocre results, INSTEAD of letting me keep that money to maybe buy healthier food to avoid diabetes for example (a much bigger threat to me than the flu) or at the very least if you want to push public agenda, taking that money to spend on a more beneficial policy like finding a cure for cancer - again, a much bigger threat to me than the flu. Look at the bigger picture, people.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Can shingles reoccur or is it a one time thing? Had a mild case many years ago, and one of the spots is still insanely itchy now and then.
Click to expand...

It can. Or it can cause permanent pain or parathesia along the affected nerve branch. The vaccine supposedly reduces the chance of that.
 
I had shingles at age 43. I never want that again. 14 years later I still have numbness in the area I had this. But I had a really bad case.
 
cowman said:
Yeah that's how I've done it before. Only reason I haven't this year is I'm just not in a drugstore that often and the only time I have been recently there was a line and I didn't have time to wait.
Click to expand...
Most grocery stores with pharmacy offer the flu shot along with many others.
 
All else being equal, being vaccinated against the flu decreases your likelihood of dying from it by 52-79%. Your risk of ending up in the ICU is reduced by 37%. So even if you 'failed' the flu vaccine (in the sense of having contracted an influenza like illness despite being vaccinated), there is still a beneficial effect to be had.

Clin Infect Dis. 2017 Oct 15;65(8):1289-1297
 
murphey said:
Most grocery stores with pharmacy offer the flu shot along with many others.
Click to expand...

Some insurance plans don't pay for the flu shot if it is provided as a pharmacy service rather than a medical service. So if you get the shot at the grocery store, make sure they run a pre-approval before you get the shot.
In our county the health department offers free flu shots. You just have to make the time to go there.
 
I don't like getting the flu vaccination because I get autistic and start acting like Rainman for a week or so after the shot. It doesn't really bother me, but my passengers start freaking out when I have a conniption fit because Judge Wapner isn't showing anymore.
 
neilw2 said:
Just cruising this thread a thought occurred to me... It always amazes me how people who have no real working knowledge of something can act as an authority and have such strong opinions....Maybe a pilot forum isn't the best place to get info on vaccines..
Click to expand...

People tend to believe that which confirms their already preconceived idea and reject facts and opinions that don't conform to their mindset. Its documented phenomenon that underlies much of the anti-science seen in our society.
 
steingar said:
A colleague of mine got shingles in her face. Destroyed her eye and facial muscles, now she looks like a cross between Moshe Dayan and Sylvester Stallone. I should get the damn shot.
Click to expand...
Almost as bad: my mom had shingles on her butt and privates. It was in her last year and I believe the experience hastened her decline. I haven't had a shot for it yet as it isn't covered on my insurance, but plan to get it once the new vaccine is available.

The flu shot, on the other hand, I get every year. Even if it's less than 100% effective, it's free on my insurance (one of the few things that is) and there is absolutely no downside. Someone mentioned Guillain-Barre but that is an extremely rare complication.
 
Resurrecting this thread from last year because one of the staff in my college was recently rushed to the hospital with Type A influenza. The latest update says he is in critical condition, in a medically induced coma, and on a ventilator. He is in his 60s...

This sort of thing is why I get the flu shot every year.
 
I got the first Shingrex shot in August. The pharmacy that gave it has been out of it every time I've been in for the 2nd. I'll probably have to repeat the first one now. But, not at the same place.

The flu shot is a no-brainer. They're not fool-proof. But, they offer just enough odds of actually preventing the flu that its worth it for most people. I think almost everyone can get it for no out-of-pocket. If its not covered by your health plan, check with the county health department to see if they're offering free flu shots.
 
I declined the flu shot this year (kind of a whim actually) and contracted Type A flu on the 17th of December. By the 18th I had bronchitis and a little walking pneumonia. And was prescribed the generic of Tamiflu. I was down hard for about 3 days (as in walk to the couch, sit and sort of watch TV, walk to bed). I'm still coughing a bit.

Next year, flu shot.
 
jsstevens said:
I declined the flu shot this year (kind of a whim actually) and contracted Type A flu on the 17th of December. By the 18th I had bronchitis and a little walking pneumonia. And was prescribed the generic of Tamiflu. I was down hard for about 3 days (as in walk to the couch, sit and sort of watch TV, walk to bed). I'm still coughing a bit.
Click to expand...

Most people, when they get a bad cold this time of year, self diagnose: "I have the Flu." They don't know how bad the Flu can be. I was really sick (but not hospitalized) once by the Flu. Every year thereafter I make sure to get the flu shot. Having the Flu is certified misery....
 
It’s not 100% effective. Nobody said it was. Actual effectiveness varies year to year.

The vaccine just statistically lowers your chance of getting the flu, and anecdotes don’t tell us anything.
 
FastEddieB said:
It’s not 100% effective. Nobody said it was. Actual effectiveness varies year to year.

The vaccine just statistically lowers your chance of getting the flu, and anecdotes don’t tell us anything.
Click to expand...
Which is why I have never taken it... Don't plan to either
 
OP here. I forgot all about this thread I started over a year ago. I never did get the shingles shot but...

I went in for my annual physical last Friday. My doctor wasn't happy when I told him that I never followed through with the shingles shot.

Needless to say, I left his office with a flu shot injection in one arm & a Shingrex shot in the other. He showed me who's boss!

I have to get the second shingle shot in three to six months. I'm sure it was the right thing to do.
 
FastEddieB said:
It’s called “Pretzel Logic”.
Click to expand...
Otherwise known as freedom of choice. I’ll pass on being injected with a vaccine that has an 83% chance of having zero impact whether I get the flu or not. And since I don’t, I’ll pass :cool:
 
Last edited:
neilw2 said:
Just cruising this thread a thought occurred to me... It always amazes me how people who have no real working knowledge of something can act as an authority and have such strong opinions....Maybe a pilot forum isn't the best place to get info on vaccines.

Like some others have said the best place to ask these questions is in your MD's office or at the pharmacy. Health care's main model of care has changed a lot lately. They try to encourage more of a team approach to patient's decision making- with the patient being the center of that decision team. It's called patient centered medical care.

A good provider should (and will) be able to show you hard medical facts based on studies or statistics that show the actual value/risk benefit for any medicine or procedure.

I will boil down some of the simple truths about the Flu/Flu shots:
-You cannot get the Flu from the flu vaccines
-Like others have said, they use statistics and trends to "guess" what exact strains are in the vaccine based on what they think will be around year to year. Even if they strike out and it's not as effective as it could have been it is much more effective than nothing
-Influenza kills about 5,000 people a year. True, mostly old or young. But you can certainly transmit
-Flu, even though it probably wont kill you if your in relatively good health, is not fun and causes you to waist a lot of time being sick
-The flu shot is really, really safe and their are minimal side effects

I could do similar fact stating for the shingles vaccines but you probably get my point. Talk to your MD or pharmacist. That's why they are there and what they get paid to do. If they seem not to take your questions seriously or don't answer satisfactory then it's time to find a new MD or pharmacy.
Click to expand...
wrbix said:
Conspiracy theorists everywhere we look.....<shaking head and walking away>

But for those who believe in reality and science based decision making:
The Public Health aspect, for the layman:
http://time.com/5052980/flu-season-2017-flu-shot/
Click to expand...
Plenty of ‘may’.....’could’ references
http://time.com/5138100/how-effective-is-the-2018-flu-shot/
 
Mooney Fan said:
Otherwise known as freedom of choice. I’ll pass on being injected with a vaccine that has an 83% chance of having zero impact whether I get the flu or not. And since I don’t, I’ll pass :cool:
Click to expand...

Do you pass on wearing seatbelts too? I mean, the chances are smaller than one in a thousand that they will be of benefit to you on any given trip.

The idea of vaccines is to reduce the risk. Same with seatbelts.
 
Mooney Fan said:
Otherwise known as freedom of choice...
Click to expand...

I don’t recall anyone here suggesting that flu vaccinations be required, except in certain cases.

You are certainly free not to get vaccinated. And you’re not alone.

But, regardless of any year’s vaccination effectiveness, there will be a subset of people who get the flu and suffer, are hospitalized, and/or die who would not have contracted the flu had they been vaccinated. With so little downside to the vaccination, getting vaccinated would seem the rational choice.

But the choice is yours.
 
kyleb said:
Do you pass on wearing seatbelts too? I mean, the chances are smaller than one in a thousand that they will be of benefit to you on any given trip.

The idea of vaccines is to reduce the risk. Same with seatbelts.
Click to expand...
Non sequitur. Use of seatbelts is the law.
 
Rykymus said:
Unless you're in a risk category for dying from the flu, it's a waste. They are always just guessing at which strain it's going to be anyway, and if you look at the number of different strains, well, your odds in Vegas are probably better. I think it's just another scheme by big pharma to pull more money out of your pocket, even if it is only a few bucks. ...
Click to expand...
The wrong way to look at a flu shot, in my opinion, is to believe that it has to keep you from getting the flu, or it's worthless. The way I understand it, the flu shot will decrease the severity of any strain as well as protect you from certain strains. If you get the current flu shot and still come down with the flu, you will experience milder symptoms and enjoy a swifter recovery than someone who didn't get the shot and comes down with the flu. Get the flu shot...or not, it's your choice.
 
FastEddieB said:
But, regardless of any year’s vaccination effectiveness, there will be a subset of people who get the flu and suffer, are hospitalized, and/or die who would not have contracted the flu had they been vaccinated. With so little downside to the vaccination, getting vaccinated would seem the rational choice.

.
Click to expand...
...

.......and a subset of people who may not have gotten influenza and it’s possible morbidity/mortality had they not been exposed to someone who was spreading influenza, not having been vaccinated. Herd immunity works.
Think of the children.
 
wrbix said:
...

.......and a subset of people who may not have gotten influenza and it’s possible morbidity/mortality had they not been exposed to someone who was spreading influenza, not having been vaccinated. Herd immunity works.
Think of the children.
Click to expand...

Yes. In a sense, think of vaccines as analogous to the control rods in a nuclear reactor. Vaccinated people slow the transmission rate through the population, so instead of getting a runaway epidemic, you get a slower spread and (ultimately) less of the population becomes infected.
 
saddletramp said:
I did my second class medical renewal in September & all was fine. My dear wife however, insisted that I have my annual physical with our family doctor "just in case" All was fine.

My doctor insisted that I have a flu shot. He's given me one for the last five or so years.

He also gave me a prescription for a shot for shingles. I'm not too sure if I need that one.

How many of you do the flu shot? Shingle shot?
Click to expand...

Both.

Bob
 
kyleb said:
Yes. In a sense, think of vaccines as analogous to the control rods in a nuclear reactor. Vaccinated people slow the transmission rate through the population, so instead of getting a runaway epidemic, you get a slower spread and (ultimately) less of the population becomes infected.
Click to expand...
Nice analogy! :thumbsup:

Unfortunately Bob is now in a life/death struggle due to having contracted influenza (not what most people call "the flu", but real Type A influenza) and developed pneumonia as a complication. Last I heard, his condition has worsened and they were (Friday) considering transferring him to a larger medical center as the largest university hospital in VT can't give him optimal care.

Herd immunity might just have protected him. But this is VT, where lots of people believe wacky theories about vaccines (and chemtrails, and other fringe notions). I haven't asked (and wouldn't, of course) whether he himself got the shot this year, but I've never heard of anyone getting deathly ill despite being vaccinated except in years when the vaccine was a total miss. I'm pretty sure that's not the case this year.
 
The conservative US writer and commentator Bre Payton has died at the age of 26 after falling ill.
A friend, Morgan Murtaugh, found her unconscious on Thursday. She died in hospital where she was found to be suffering from H1N1 flu and meningitis.
 
Do NOT mess around with shingles. I had chemo and bone marrow transplant to treat leukemia, which wiped out my immune system. Before my system had recovered sufficiently to receive the shingles vaccine, I developed a shingles infection in a facial nerve. Facial paralysis (which eventually cleared), balance issues (just now getting better three years after the fact), and loss of hearing on one side (will never get that back). It's a rare location to get shingles, but it happens (Google "Ramsay Hunt Syndrome" if interested).
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top