Flights for Bacon

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pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...
 
Rushie said:
They eat like the government’s infamous food pyramid
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The old food pyramid was one big lie. 6-11 servings of cereal, bread, rice, and grains is a surefire way to become obese and diabetic.

Proteins and fats were vilified, yet fats and proteins give you slow burn fuel that satiates and keeps you from getting hungry. Eat a bowl of cereal, and you're hungry in two hours. Eat eggs and bacon, and you're good until noon and sometimes far longer. Except in California, sounds like you get grains for breakfast.
 
AlleyCat67 said:
I'd

Animals are certainly aware of suffering and pain. Paying a bit more for meat in exchange for improving their standard of living while they live is not unreasonable
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Exactly. It's so important to be kind to animals before you take them to the slaughterhouse.

Of course, the poor won't be able to pay a bit more for meat, so I guess it's soylent green for them?
 
Bill said:
The old food pyramid was one big lie. 6-11 servings of cereal, bread, rice, and grains is a surefire way to become obese and diabetic.

Proteins and fats were vilified, yet fats and proteins give you slow burn fuel that satiates and keeps you from getting hungry. Eat a bowl of cereal, and you're hungry in two hours. Eat eggs and bacon, and you're good until noon and sometimes far longer. Except in California, sounds like you get grains for breakfast.
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I heard it described this way once - Imagine sitting down and eating an entire bag of potato chips. When you finish, you'll still be hungry and could probably eat another one. Now try eating an entire stick of butter...you won't even finish it, but you'll feel full.

Most people would say that the butter is going to make you fat, but there's only 800 calories in the full stick of butter vs 1200 calories in the chips, which you might eat two of.

Additionally, fat is required. If you're familiar with the Alone TV show (survival experts live on the land in Canada), there was someone a couple of seasons ago who brought down a moose with a bow and arrow. He lost the fat to a wolverine and was starving eating the lean moose meat.
 
bflynn said:
Of course, the poor won't be able to pay a bit more for meat, so I guess it's soylent green for them?
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The honest poor won't be able to pay more for meat, but since shoplifting is now quasi-legal in California, the criminals will do just fine. Retailers won't be able to keep bacon on the shelves.
 
James_Dean said:
Put the kool-aid down. On a $/gram of protein eggs are as cheap or cheaper than beans and lentils. Well…at least until Prop 12 goes into effect.
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Eggs are a great value, maybe not at future costs but certainly historically.

I know a lot of youtubers promoting keeping their own chickens, heck they'll eat practically anything.
 
GaryM said:
The honest poor won't be able to pay more for meat, but since shoplifting is now quasi-legal in California, the criminals will do just fine. Retailers won't be able to keep bacon on the shelves.
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Aren't some of these stolen items ending up for re-sale on the streets? Seems like a new opportunity for unemployed Uber/Lyft drivers.
 
bnt83 said:
Eggs are a great value, maybe not at future costs but certainly historically.

I know a lot of youtubers promoting keeping their own chickens, heck they'll eat practically anything.
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They are already $1.89 a dozen here. That's the every-day "large eggs", not free-range, organic, brown or anything special.
 
Bill said:
The old food pyramid was one big lie. 6-11 servings of cereal, bread, rice, and grains is a surefire way to become obese and diabetic.

Proteins and fats were vilified, yet fats and proteins give you slow burn fuel that satiates and keeps you from getting hungry. Eat a bowl of cereal, and you're hungry in two hours. Eat eggs and bacon, and you're good until noon and sometimes far longer. Except in California, sounds like you get grains for breakfast.
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I firmly believe this. There are a minority of people whom are metabolically broken and have real issues and can't seem to be fixed or managed. There are a ton of people that basically being poisoned by extremely high carbohydrate consumption.

Every time I consider the diabetes epidemic of today I think back to my childhood, breakfast at school, frosted flakes, toast with jelly and orange juice. Lunch? Always chocolate milk.
 
I'm reading this while eating a taylor ham, egg and cheese sandwich yum.
 
Rushie said:
I don’t mind paying a lot more money for them because I can afford to.

But a huge portion of the population lives paycheck to paycheck. Causing great increases in the price of meat and eggs is the worst thing you could do. .
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Its not just your own consumption costs, you paying the increased costs for everyone that can't afford food through SNAP/EBT as well.
 
JScarry said:
…
I think…
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Not to be rude, but that’s the problem here.

James_Dean doesn’t think his data, he knows it because his business is the data when it comes to agribusiness in general and eggs specifically.
 
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James_Dean said:
…There are 10 more items like these that all add to the cost. The farm price in the most efficient systems is roughly a $0.45/dozen cost delta…
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Q: Are those additional costs contained/passed on within just the CA destined, the free-range and/or organic segment or is that spread across the entire operation (traditional and boutique/specialty)?
 
TCABM said:
Q: Are those additional costs contained/passed on within just the CA destined, the free-range and/or organic segment or is that spread across the entire operation (traditional and boutique/specialty)?
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Those generally are the costs carried by an operation in the midwest to go from a United Egg Producers Animal Welfare certified program to a cage free program certified by American Humane. How those costs get covered is a whole other topic.

Free range, pasture, and organic are another ball game.
 
James_Dean said:
Those generally are the costs carried by an operation in the midwest to go from a United Egg Producers Animal Welfare certified program to a cage free program certified by American Humane. How those costs get covered is a whole other topic.

Free range, pasture, and organic are another ball game.
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Thanks. Surprising to me, details around cost containment and supply chain management are intriguing. Never even thought that would be the case when I retired from .mil and went to the business world.
 
There's always "bacon" made from free-range tofu. Tofacon, if you will. Mmmmmm.... getcha one of them tasty planks!
tofu-bacon-4-of-6.jpg
 
AlleyCat67 said:
I'd

And by the way... California is the world's fifth largest economy and doesn't give a s**t what people from flyover country have to say about it's laws.
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Probably a good thing. Now if they would just stop moving to the flyover states and stay in their native habitat everything will be better.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The only correlation would be not eating as much because they can’t afford food. There is no nutritional difference between eating a free range chicken and a regular chicken.

That’s all just made up BS.
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JD knows a lot more than I do about that but I think it depends on your definition of free range. If you have housed chickens in a common area that are fed processed chicken feed but they have access to a small fenced in outdoor yard they can go roam around in, whether or not they actually use it, I think you can market them as “free range”. Those eggs might be identical to conventional caged chicken eggs.

That’s totally different than chickens raised like described in the “Omnivore’s Dilemma” where you rotate your chickens and cows. You let the cows graze on a section of green pasture and poop thereon, then you let the poop sit while flies lay eggs and larvae hatch, then you move your mobile chicken pen over that section where they can happily eat all the grubs. Chickens raised this way have healthier eggs is my understanding. And that would ironically be true free range from a nutritional standpoint although the chickens are technically confined within your mobile cage device.

Then you have chickens like our neighbor back in Appalachia, who just let them roam all over the mountain coming into our and other neighbors’ yards and digging up the landscaping and p!ssing everybody off. We did get some of the eggs though, they were good and that is probably the truest “free range”. But soon the coyotes got all his chickens, so it turns out that’s not the best way to do it.

Don’t get me started on “vegetarian” chickens. What a load of hogwash. Who cares that the chicken only ate plant matter? Vegetarians? To make a vegetarian chicken you have to confine it indoors, otherwise it might pick a bug out of the ground, then you can’t claim it’s a vegetarian. Or is the issue that they don’t want chickens fed commercial feed that contains animal matter? If you have a problem with that, why are you buying eggs?

Anyway maybe James can explain where I might be wrong here.
 
So.... how many folks here are members of Mankind for Ethical Animal Treatment.??

Mankind for Ethical Animal Treatment is a organization whose leader was Free Waterfall Jr. The association's goal is to stop any animals like lions (we taught a lion to eat tofu), and humans from eating any other animals, such as orangutans and Popplers.

However as vegetarians, the effectiveness of this is limited.

The group may have been disbanded after their leader's death.
 
So its not just bacon, I get bacon is the tastiest pig product. I stopped eating red meat from cows several years ago due to the environmental impact over meat from pigs, chickens. I know everything has environmental impact so I try to make good choices for myself (i do enough things that are bad for the environment already such as flying a plane 100 miles to have breakfast of the same quality that i could get two blocks from my house, driving a lifted JK, etc). So this change is going to impact pork chops, pulled pork, bacon etc. I try not to get too worked up over "change" but, this one is "interesting".
 
NoBShere said:
So its not just bacon, I get bacon is the tastiest pig product. I stopped eating red meat from cows several years ago due to the environmental impact over meat from pigs, chickens. I know everything has environmental impact so I try to make good choices for myself (i do enough things that are bad for the environment already such as flying a plane 100 miles to have breakfast of the same quality that i could get two blocks from my house, driving a lifted JK, etc). So this change is going to impact pork chops, pulled pork, bacon etc. I try not to get too worked up over "change" but, this one is "interesting".
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So on the back of your lifted JK is there a bumper sticker that says “Ban offshore drilling”? That is my favorite. Right up there with I’d like a Diet Coke with my big Mac. But in all honesty, I am grateful that you are doing your part to keep the demand lower for red meat.
 
bflynn said:
Exactly. It's so important to be kind to animals before you take them to the slaughterhouse.
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There's human health impacts too ... sort of. Increased density implies the fairly regular use of antibiotics. Regular user of antibiotics can yield antibiotic resistant bacteria.

Of course, the poor won't be able to pay a bit more for meat, so I guess it's soylent green for them?
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Mmm. Minty
1-1.jpg
 
I am enjoying this thread. Lots of good material to work with.
 
I'd wager the people behind this bill had no farm experience and didn't bother to ask around and find out why farms use certain practices.
 
is there such a thing as the ethical mistreatment of animals? I mean if it's so important to have ethical treatment, I have to believe it came out of ethical mistreatment.

I like animals.
 
AlleyCat67 said:
... California is the world's fifth largest economy and doesn't give a s**t what people from flyover country have to say about it's laws. Funny how state's rights works both ways?
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And that’s perfectly fine, until any cost born by the requirement are passed on to consumers or businesses not encumbered by CA laws or regulations because in essence that becomes a subsidy paid by those who did not make that choice.

But it’s really hard to keep from happening.
 
All I can say is that pot-lucks have become a minefield of quizzing... Not sure if that's just in California or if it coincided with when I moved here.

But to me bacon is "meh". I'll eat it but never cook it.
 
cowman said:
I'd wager the people behind this bill had no farm experience and didn't bother to ask around and find out why farms use certain practices.
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You know that they didn’t. The Utopians don’t need that sort of information.
 
Pi1otguy said:
There's human health impacts too ... sort of. Increased density implies the fairly regular use of antibiotics. Regular user of antibiotics can yield antibiotic resistant bacteria.


Mmm. Minty
1-1.jpg
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We all have to remember that Soylent Green is made of people!
 
From an evolutionary standpoint, domesticated animals are extremely successful and doing exactly what their genes wanted them to do in order to survive and flourish over the eons. Allow humans to domesticate you, even for food, and your species is guaranteed not to go extinct. The same is not true for species that remain wild and are hunted. Species found that docility and other characteristics that make them easy to domesticate would ensure they wouldn’t be hunted to extinction. As individuals they may live short lives, even uncomfortable ones, but collectively they survive. Similar analogies exist all throughout nature. Life is rarely about comfort in the wild.

So I feel no guilt about eating animals. However I hate for them to suffer unnecessarily. That’s why I buy only humanely treated animal products whenever possible. It’s quite obvious they have conscious awareness and feel pain. Morally we have a duty to minimize their suffering but we also have a moral duty to minimize the suffering of our fellow humans, even more so.

The best solution is a strong economy with open pathways for the poor to rise to middle class or better, and in this Information Age more people can learn and care about the treatment of animals, and will begin demanding humane treatment (the trend is in that direction) and, in a better economy, will be able to pay for it. That’s how to do it, not by forced government mandate. That stifles food production businesses and raises prices and disrupts supplies too abruptly. The right way is to allow gradual change and adjustment through increasing consumer demand, which producers can respond to. Top down authoritarian force is not a good thing.
 
Rushie said:
JD knows a lot more than I do about that but I think it depends on your definition of free range. If you have housed chickens in a common area that are fed processed chicken feed but they have access to a small fenced in outdoor yard they can go roam around in, whether or not they actually use it, I think you can market them as “free range”. Those eggs might be identical to conventional caged chicken eggs.

That’s totally different than chickens raised like described in the “Omnivore’s Dilemma” where you rotate your chickens and cows. You let the cows graze on a section of green pasture and poop thereon, then you let the poop sit while flies lay eggs and larvae hatch, then you move your mobile chicken pen over that section where they can happily eat all the grubs. Chickens raised this way have healthier eggs is my understanding. And that would ironically be true free range from a nutritional standpoint although the chickens are technically confined within your mobile cage device.

Then you have chickens like our neighbor back in Appalachia, who just let them roam all over the mountain coming into our and other neighbors’ yards and digging up the landscaping and p!ssing everybody off. We did get some of the eggs though, they were good and that is probably the truest “free range”. But soon the coyotes got all his chickens, so it turns out that’s not the best way to do it.

Don’t get me started on “vegetarian” chickens. What a load of hogwash. Who cares that the chicken only ate plant matter? Vegetarians? To make a vegetarian chicken you have to confine it indoors, otherwise it might pick a bug out of the ground, then you can’t claim it’s a vegetarian. Or is the issue that they don’t want chickens fed commercial feed that contains animal matter? If you have a problem with that, why are you buying eggs?

Anyway maybe James can explain where I might be wrong here.
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I was referring to free range as defined by the law being discussed.

I am keenly aware of how different all the protein from real yard birds taste. I grew up chasing Sunday dinner at grandmas house.
 
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