Flight training through a university (r-atp)

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skyhawk172

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skyhawk172
Hi everyone!
I am currently a 16 year old working on my ppl (I just recently solo'd:D) and my goal is to be an airline pilot. I will graduate high school this year, at 17 years old and with my ppl (so long as nothing major happens) and hopefully hour build a bit the summer after I graduate. My parents are requiring me to go to college, and I am thinking of going to a university with an accredited flight program I could get a 1000hr R-ATP at; seeing as that would take me 4 years, and I wouldn't be able to be an airline pilot until I am 21 (5 years away). I am currently looking at Auburn as my number 1 choice due to the location and warm weather, but am also open to many other universities with aviation schools. I would like to graduate with my CFI as well. I qualified for a $60k scholarship to Auburn (15k annually) due to my SAT score and I have $170k from my parents which would include an apartment, food, books, etc. (the money would not just be for flight training/ tuition) so I may still have some debt, but I am optimistic about student loans. However I have seen lots of posts about a university not being worth it, and that it can take way longer for stage checks, cost way too much, and overall just not be worth it/ a good experience. I was hoping someone could share their input and/or experience on an aviation degree, especially considering I have 5 years before I am even old enough for an r-atp and that I HAVE to go to college if I want any help from my family. Also, if anyone has experience with a college and part 61 separate training it would be great to hear some advice on that (if it's cheaper, quicker, etc.) If anyone has any great experiences/ success stories with universities I would love to hear them!
 
If you’re going to have your PPL by graduation, come to Purdue. Get your IR, CPL, and CFI here at Purdue University’s aviation program or at Purdue Aviation (Part 61 FBO), and then start instructing at either one of those two places. Build hours as a CFI and get paid for doing so. Get your degree in whatever you want at Purdue, doesn’t have to be aviation (including as an A&P or aviation management or any other non aviation major).

I’m sure other universities have similar options. You may be behind in college visits, so go start looking now!
 
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455 Bravo Uniform said:
If you’re going to have your PPL by graduation, come to Purdue. Get your IR, CPL, and CFI here at Purdue University’s aviation program or at Purdue Aviation (Part 61 FBO), and then start instructing at either one of those two places. Build hours as an CFI and get paid for doing so. Get your degree in whatever you want at Purdue, doesn’t have to be aviation (including as an A&P or aviation management or any other non aviation major).

I’m sure other universities have similar options. You may be behind in college visits, so go start looking now!
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Thanks for the reply! Purdue is another one of my top choices! Did you attend? If so, how long did it take you to get to CFI?
 
Don’t forget that there are degree programs that are not 4 years. There are several technical colleges with 2 year programs that also have flight programs. TSTC down here in Texas is one, there are others around the country, so broaden your search a little.
 
FYI, to get your R-ATP you need to be 21 years old. 23 for regular ATP.
 
skyhawk172 said:
Thanks for the reply! Purdue is another one of my top choices! Did you attend? If so, how long did it take you to get to CFI?
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I did not attend as an undergrad. I got my pilot certificate from Purdue Aviation much later in life. But I am familiar with the program knowing some of the faculty, CFIs, and students, some of whom are friends and hangar mates.

I believe @Jake Simpson is still a student at Purdue and here on POA. Might PM him for some advice. Not sure the program he is or was in.
 
skyhawk172 said:
....and my goal is to be an airline pilot.
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That career has its ups and downs (pun intended ;) ). A downturn in the economy, a merger, a medical problem, etc., can ground you unexpectedly. Get a degree in a field that will feed you if something happens to your airline pilot job. A STEM or business degree will let you pay your bills and keep the lights on.

A good pilot always has alternatives in case the original plan doesn’t work. Start thinking that way now.

Good luck!
 
Half Fast said:
That career has its ups and downs (pun intended ;) ). A downturn in the economy, a merger, a medical problem, etc., can ground you unexpectedly. Get a degree in a field that will feed you if something happens to your airline pilot job. A STEM or business degree will let you pay your bills and keep the lights on.

A good pilot always has alternatives in case the original plan doesn’t work. Start thinking that way now.

Good luck!
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This is good advice, especially because you’re so young. No point in rushing your education and then having to burn time while you get to be old enough to be an airline pilot. Also — and I say this seriously — college years are the best years of many people’s lives. Why skip or rush that phase of your life? I wonder about that every time I read about a basketball phenom quit college after a year or two to go to the NBA. In those cases, NBA salaries are the draw. But starting pro pilot salaries are unlikely to compensate for the lost opportunity to enjoy your college experience.
 
Agreed with the above, college is fun times, have fun, make friends, party, maybe find your other half. Take your time and enjoy it.

Personally, I’d find a university with affordable tuition, rather than throwing away 170k, expensive schools always offer scholarships but they end up costing more in the end than cheaper in-state schools. I’m not saying to go to any cheap school, but I’d recommend going to a big 10 school, and living on campus, or a school with a large student population on campus. There are nice options out there. Something that is affordable, total costs about 15-20k per year at the most (hopefully it’s less with scholarships), borrow the money in student loans (student loans is a safe debt, can be deferred when you are not working in the future), use the 170k to fund any necessities, buy a house (an investment asset - not a car), something like that.

Flight training wise, consider buying an aircraft to build your hours, get a cheaper to run 2 seater, maybe budget for about 25-30k, you’ll need another 10k a year for mx and fuel. There’s airports and part 61 training almost anywhere, once you have your PPL you can fly yourself to build hours, make friends who are pilots and take turns flying under the hood to build simulated hours experience. You can later become a CFI and teach if that is of interest to you.

I’m not sure that I’d focus on rushing to get a R-ATP by influencing your school choice, take your time and enjoy the journey if aviation is truly of an interest to you.

Once you get to working life, you’ll be on call, and worked like a dog. You’ll have less time for friends, family and hobbies.
 
mandm said:
Agreed with the above, college is fun times, have fun, make friends, party, maybe find your other half. Take your time and enjoy it.

Personally, I’d find a university with affordable tuition, rather than throwing away 170k, expensive schools always offer scholarships but they end up costing more in the end than cheaper in-state schools. I’m not saying to go to any cheap school, but I’d recommend going to a big 10 school, and living on campus, or a school with a large student population on campus. There are nice options out there. Something that is affordable, total costs about 15-20k per year at the most (hopefully it’s less with scholarships), borrow the money in student loans (student loans is a safe debt, can be deferred when you are not working in the future), use the 170k to fund any necessities, buy a house (an investment asset - not a car), something like that.

Flight training wise, consider buying an aircraft to build your hours, get a cheaper to run 2 seater, maybe budget for about 25-30k, you’ll need another 10k a year for mx and fuel. There’s airports and part 61 training almost anywhere, once you have your PPL you can fly yourself to build hours, make friends who are pilots and take turns flying under the hood to build simulated hours experience. You can later become a CFI and teach if that is of interest to you.

I’m not sure that I’d focus on rushing to get a R-ATP by influencing your school choice, take your time and enjoy the journey if aviation is truly of an interest to you.

Once you get to working life, you’ll be on call, and worked like a dog. You’ll have less time for friends, family and hobbies.
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Thank you so much! Part of the appeal of auburn is the student life (campus, sports, sec, etc), and I really like the idea of buying a plane to build hours cheaper
 
Consider Middle Tennessee State University in Murfreesboro, TN. Many of their students are CFIs working for the university parttime in their Junior and Senior years. Before you decide on a school, find out how quickly you can expect to start flying.
 
Half Fast said:
That career has its ups and downs (pun intended ;) ). A downturn in the economy, a merger, a medical problem, etc., can ground you unexpectedly. Get a degree in a field that will feed you if something happens to your airline pilot job. A STEM or business degree will let you pay your bills and keep the lights on.

A good pilot always has alternatives in case the original plan doesn’t work. Start thinking that way now.

Good luck!
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Absolutely this. I can't harp on this one enough. I didn't do that and it almost bit me in the ass. Thankfully I had drafting and design experience to fall back on when my original plan didn't work out.
 
Half Fast said:
That career has its ups and downs (pun intended ;) ). A downturn in the economy, a merger, a medical problem, etc., can ground you unexpectedly. Get a degree in a field that will feed you if something happens to your airline pilot job. A STEM or business degree will let you pay your bills and keep the lights on.

A good pilot always has alternatives in case the original plan doesn’t work. Start thinking that way now.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
best advice in this thread!
 
My son (the guy my profile pic) is in the same boat and doing applications now.

I'm a UF grad so Auburn was a hard no. :) He's applying to Purdue, Baylor, Ohio State, and Riddle as his top choices. His DPE for his ASES pushed him hard to consider UND so he's started looking at that too. It has a great program but it's darn cold.

1000 hours and 21 years old is "better" than 1500 hours and 23 years old if for no other reason is you stand to get a seniority number 2 years earler. A gotcha in the program is you can't show up with a Commercial or Instrument rating. You have to get them through the program. Every program he's looked at has a CFI track.

In 2023, you can get on without a degree, but in the harder cycles that happen, It's pretty useful. Also makes Plan B much more viable.
 
skyhawk172 said:
Hi everyone!
I am currently a 16 year old working on my ppl (I just recently solo'd:D) and my goal is to be an airline pilot. I will graduate high school this year, at 17 years old and with my ppl (so long as nothing major happens) and hopefully hour build a bit the summer after I graduate. My parents are requiring me to go to college, and I am thinking of going to a university with an accredited flight program I could get a 1000hr R-ATP at; seeing as that would take me 4 years, and I wouldn't be able to be an airline pilot until I am 21 (5 years away). I am currently looking at Auburn as my number 1 choice due to the location and warm weather, but am also open to many other universities with aviation schools. I would like to graduate with my CFI as well. I qualified for a $60k scholarship to Auburn (15k annually) due to my SAT score and I have $170k from my parents which would include an apartment, food, books, etc. (the money would not just be for flight training/ tuition) so I may still have some debt, but I am optimistic about student loans. However I have seen lots of posts about a university not being worth it, and that it can take way longer for stage checks, cost way too much, and overall just not be worth it/ a good experience. I was hoping someone could share their input and/or experience on an aviation degree, especially considering I have 5 years before I am even old enough for an r-atp and that I HAVE to go to college if I want any help from my family. Also, if anyone has experience with a college and part 61 separate training it would be great to hear some advice on that (if it's cheaper, quicker, etc.) If anyone has any great experiences/ success stories with universities I would love to hear them!
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Which university did you end up attending? Are you majoring in commercial aviation or professional flight?
 
I'm a 58yr old airline pilot. I've flown for six airlines, and currently fly for one of the big three. I earned a B.S. in Aeronautical Science from ERAU in 1989. I earned my ratings, through CFI-A, before attending ERAU. I took a few classes at a local, state University before transferring to ERAU.

I disagree with the advice to get a non-aviation degree. What I learned in my aero-sci classes has been valuable to be throughout my career. It has put me ahead of my peers in every airline interview and initial aircraft course that I've attended. Also, if you lose your medical when you're 40, your non-aviation degree will be out of date as you haven't been keeping current in the field and building experience. It will be old information and you will have to update it just be be qualified for entry-level positions that 23 year-olds are taking right out of college.

I do not borrow money, other than for a mortgage, and I've always paid those off as quickly as I can. I never have borrowed. I recommend that you do the same. Many say you can't do that, but you can. I did. One way to do it is to go to a local community college for your first two years then transfer ~60 credit hours to the (expensive) four-year school of your choice. That will save you significantly on tuition and living costs. It will allow you to live at home for those two years and work, save money, and earn your ratings. Go off to the expensive school with a CFI-A and an associates degree already earned and graduate debt free. Your Auburn diploma will look exactly the same as your classmates who were there for four years and who are graduating with $100,000+ in debt.

Right now, work and read. Work to save money and to pay for more flying. Read the AIM. Read the FARs. Read the FAA's publications; the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, the Airplane Flying Handbook, and later the Instrument Flying Handbook and the Instrument Procedures Handbook, etc. Be the guy who other students come to when they don't know where to find an answer. It isn't difficult. You just have to be willing to do the reading that others aren't willing to do. So many are only willing to do what's required and not much more.
 
100,000,000% don't enter an aviation career with $100K+ in debt/loans if you can avoid it in any way. That's a really deep hole to dig yourself out of, though of course the regionals pay a lot better than they used to. But I think the advice is still solid.

The "get a STEM degree/something you can fall back on" has an expiration date for sure, like @Larry in TN mentions. It's been close to 20 years since I received my BS in mechanical engineering. No way, not even the smallest chance in the world, that I would apply to an engineering job if I were furloughed from my airline job. Those penguins slid off the iceberg of my core memory long ago. Many other things I could do nowadays to make some money if this whole airline thing went south. In fact, I retain a couple part time jobs on the side, and I could easily return to either of them full time without an enormous pay cut, for the entire purpose of having a Plan B and Plan C in place for this reason. But if you are a year or two into said aviation career, as a CFI or regional guy, and a downturn strikes, it might buy you an out at that point. It just will become more of a diminishing realistic "plan B" as you get older and more removed.
 
35 AoA said:
100,000,000% don't enter an a̶v̶i̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ career with $100K+ in debt/loans if you can avoid it in any way. That's a really deep hole to dig yourself out of…
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FIFY. Just as many perils in most all career fields. Loading up on debt (school, car, credit cards, house) at a point in your life where mobility is critical to advancement and enjoyment is a horrible idea.
 
jbarrass said:
My son (the guy my profile pic) is in the same boat and doing applications now.

I'm a UF grad so Auburn was a hard no. :) He's applying to Purdue, Baylor, Ohio State, and Riddle as his top choices. His DPE for his ASES pushed him hard to consider UND so he's started looking at that too. It has a great program but it's darn cold.

(Snip . . .)

In 2023, you can get on without a degree, but in the harder cycles that happen, It's pretty useful. Also makes Plan B much more viable.
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Good advice - I would caution about the weather in the northern locations. I am from north east Ohio and the weather cancels a lot of flights this time of year. You mentioned Ohio State. I have heard good things about their program but there weather is only slightly better than ours. It Is easy to get behind on the flying in the program and tough to catch up. It is not just the cold - we have low ceilings more often than not then there is a mad scramble for planes when the weather is good enough to fly. This year has been worst than most.

I also think it is solid advice to get a degree. Right now, you might get hired without one but the hiring cycles come and go. No one knows how the hiring environment will be in 5 years.
 
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