Also, I guess I was trying to ask for the minimum separation where ATC will see both planes, each with a unique xpdr code. Wasn't sure if they need to be 100 ft apart or a 1000ft or a mile.
You can assume they’ll see you right up until you collide these days, mostly. They call it “targets merging”. Not a good day for a controller.
Maybe so both planes can depart and arrive at the same time and not be a "flight", they could agree to fly a fixed distance offset from the magenta line. Say 1/2 mile. When calling in for FF, explain the situation. Maybe the lead plane could be on the right side of the track and just slightly ahead, like it's passing on the right. If all goes well at least the second pilot on the left side of the track would have a good visual. But at the same time, both just fly your individual flight. If the other needs to divert it will be heard on the ATC channel.
Now you’re thinkin’!
What you’re really likely to find is even in identical types, loading differences (weight) and slight power differences will mean if you’re both boring along at full throttle, you won’t be doing the same speed.
That’s one of the first topics of discussion in a safety brief for different types flying together... what speed? If one aircraft is firewalled and the other is hanging on with the stall horn blaring and flaps extended, then things get really difficult.
(Think about that the next time you see those “Heritage” flights of say a P-51 and a jet fighter. The jet is usually in trail, flaps hanging out, and the P-51 is pedal to the metal in the lead just trying to go fast enough the wingmen don’t have to break off. Ha.)
And someone already mentioned faster planes going first..makes sense except if the planes cruise at similar speeds then kinda weird.
Even a one knot difference when you’re hanging on someone’s wing is a BIG difference.
First time you try formation flying you’ll think you’re going to break your throttle off with all the movement. Haha. You learn to see the visual cues if your getting “sucked” (behind) or “acute” (ahead) from a simple easy standard “in-trail” position and learn to stare really hard at a point on the lead’s airplane to see if it’s moving in ANY direction and nudging the controls and throttle to make it stop.
The first time you try it you’ll usually go blowing right past the lead on the join up unless the lead is a smart old codger and starts a turn away from you as you’re about to blow by (putting you further on the outside of the turn and effectively slowing you down), then warning you they’re going to make a gradual turn back into you as your instructor tells you to keep slowing to maintain the position.
It’s very interesting and some of the most hand-eye coordination flying you’ll ever do if you get s chance. A really good wingman can widen their field of view from that “point” and often see the other pilot making tiny control deflections if they have good eyes and counteract the change. But that’s really really hard to do.
Or maybe just purposely stagger by 5 miles or around 2-3 minutes. Still close enough to chat on 122.75 and if the trailing an diverts the lead plane doesn't have to backtrack to far to meet at the divert.
The takeoffs themselves will handle that if the fastest aircraft is in the lead at takeoff.
@Clark1961 @murphey and I all departed a lunch run simultaneously once with no real coordination and no plans to formation fly, but we were all talking to Denver Center coming out of Nebraska one day. We did the takeoffs backward, not really meaning to, and as I gained on
@murphey,
@Clark1961 gained on me, and Center was gettin’ a little nervous. We told them we had all gone to lunch together and then while Clark blasted on past us with his turbo... the remaining two of us weren’t going to the same airport so we were slowly diverging targets anyway, but I knew I had to go further to get home so I told the controller I’d climb another thousand feet.
That’s always an option too, vertical separation. Just pick a couple different altitudes and you’ll never hit in cruise, of course. Just watch out for your buddies during the descent, especially if they’re below and ahead and you get some extra speed when you push the nose down.
I had the good fortune of a primary instructor who wasn’t military trained but was up to speed on formation flying and some friends who were crazy enough to brief and fly next to us for cross counties for lunches and stuff. Eventually we even did a video of us doing spins from Denver to Cheyenne... two Skyhawks just puttering along. We were slightly faster and they agreed to slow up a bit even after each spin so we could re-join and their backseater could find ya again with the enormous rented VHS camera that took up the rest of the back seat. Haha.
I’ve lost my copy of the video. Instructor said he found his a while back and then had to go find a VHS player to play it on. Hahaha. He’s not sure where it is again, but maybe someday we’ll get our crap together and convert it to digital and post it somewhere. Annnnncient history there.
Most boring video ever probably. Ten minutes of catching up to the lead airplane after every spin. Hahahahaha. Then we’d be alongside and slow down and over we’d go again, dropping away...
