Flight Following question

SoCal RV Flyer

SoCal RV Flyer

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SoCal RV Flyer
I'm relatively new to VFR flight following, and I have a question for an upcoming trip from SoCal to Chandler, AZ. When it's time to descend from cruising altitude, do I just state to ATC that I'm doing it, or request a descent, and what's the phraseology? Thanks!
 
Not required but I tell them.
"So and So Center, Cirrus xyz beginning my descent into such and such field"
 
My home airport is next to a Class D airport. Sometimes ATC will give me an altitude restriction and a specific heading to fly if a regional jet is coming in for landing. If given an altitude restriction, ask ATC for permission before starting your descent.
 
I agree with the above posters. If you've been given an altitude restriction ask for permission to start your decent. If they've just said "maintain VFR at or below 3500" or something similar than it isn't required but it's a good thing to jet give them a heads-up. When in doubt ask.
 
You SHOULD (AIM) tell them when you are changing your VFR cruising altitude but it's not that big of a deal. If they've got traffic and they're worried about you climbing / descending, they'll tell you "report any altitude changes."

Personally, I just make a quick broadcast that I'm descending.
 
I let them know when I begin a climb or descent. Some controllers will let you know to advise them prior to altitude changes.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Not required but I tell them.
"So and So Center, Cirrus xyz beginning my descent into such and such field"
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Sometime I use that phrase as a hint for them to let me squawk 1200 and change frequency.
 
Some controllers don't even want to be told.

But I do it regardless, unless the frequency is swamped.

If there is an altitude restriction, you do have to ask. Unless the restriction is "at or below."

My "code" for a frequency change is "field in sight." I don't do a lot of MVFR. For IFR, it's not an issue.
 
As mentioned per AIM you should advise of altitude changes while receiving Flight Following...not "must" but "should" and "advise" not "request".

Some controllers may not care or get irritated...their problem. I will always call out an altitude change...when able. There have been situations where I just start down due to busy radio traffic or other reasons...hence "should"

"Nor Cal, Sklyane 12345 starting VFR decent into Watsonville" is all you need.

Now, the one thing that I hear on frequency that irritates controllers all the time is VFR pilots "requesting" an altitude change. You are VFR, you can fly what you want (unless given an altitude restriction)...hence likely a snarky "altitude at your discretion" response.

"Advising" is NOT: "NorCal, would like to start my decent" or "NorCal, can I descend to 5500'?"

Should be "NorCal, Slylane 12345 descending to 5500'"

If your call to ATC requires any response other than "Thank You" from the controller you are not advising, you are requesting...which is not needed and will result in an unnecessary back and forth conversation and possibly a crabby controller.
 
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You don't have to, but it's good practice to advise them of an upcoming decent, especially if you're flying in relatively congested airspace. A lot of times as you approach your destination, ATC will tell you "Cherokee 2MD ****** airport is to your 12-1 o'clock and one five miles advise it insight" and you can then tell them you will be starting a decent in about 3 miles etc. and will call the field.
 
Great responses, guys. Thanks! So I'll just state that I'm starting descent, barring an altitude restriction. And if they tell me otherwise, I'll comply.

Looking forward to using the system on my first "going somewhere" flight (other than local lunch hops) in the new aircraft.
 
I use FF most of the time unless I'm pounding the pattern. Similar to what others have stated, when I'm close to my destination/descent distance I'll usually "tell" ATC I'm changing to the local CTAF in the form of a request. "Johnstown Approach, bugsmasher 123 has the local weather and request to terminate flight following (or request frequency change), etc." It's not really a "request" since they know I'm doing it, but rather a cordial way of letting them know. The ATC "code" around here for when they're about to terminate flight following is usually "advise when you have the field in site" or "advise when you have the local weather." Shortly after they are advised of either you get a quick response of "VFR flight following terminated, Squawk VFR, have a nice day..."
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I'm relatively new to VFR flight following, and I have a question for an upcoming trip from SoCal to Chandler, AZ. When it's time to descend from cruising altitude, do I just state to ATC that I'm doing it, or request a descent, and what's the phraseology? Thanks!
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Don't use the word "request" when the controller has no authority over you in the airspace in which you are flying. "Altitude your discretion" is the reply you will receive. JTell them, yes...ask them, no
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I'm relatively new to VFR flight following, and I have a question for an upcoming trip from SoCal to Chandler, AZ. When it's time to descend from cruising altitude, do I just state to ATC that I'm doing it, or request a descent, and what's the phraseology? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Sometimes I think that this should be a sticky: AIM 4-2-1(b): "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." IOW, stop looking for specific phraselogy.

Bob Gardner
 
as the others said:
Altitude restriction will sound like:
"Atlanta, 123K maintain at or below 5000-500"
- they are working traffic near you.

Not restricted but:
"Atlanta, 123K report any altitude changes"
- air space is busy and they want to know your intentions

With no instructions and you change altitude you may hear:
"Atlanta, 123K i see you climbing, say your final (altitude)"
- if they want to know, they will ask you.

Note: And if you sound like you know what you are doing, you may hear without request:
"Atlanta, 123K you are cleared into Bravo, direct Kxxx" :):)
 
I've gotten "Cessna 123XY say cruising altitude" followed very shortly with "Cleared into Class B climb and maintain [cruising altitude I just said]."

But then, NorCal gives away B clearances like candy, as long as you aren't over the Bay or headed in that direction.
 
bobmrg said:
Sometimes I think that this should be a sticky: AIM 4-2-1(b): "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." IOW, stop looking for specific phraselogy.

Bob Gardner
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Yeah, I'm not a stickler on EXACT wording, just looking for ballpark phraseology. Striving to be precise and clear.

LT4247, excellent bullet points on what to expect. Thanks to all for great input here!
 
Me "ATC beginning descent" Them "Maintain VFR" Everyone knows what's going on and that's a good thing.
 
I just did my Long XC this weekend, was on flight following and heard a mix of all the responses others have posted here. Sometimes I'd get a sense that they didn't care and they would come back with 'altitude your discretion' and sometimes I'd get 'advise on altitude changes'. One leg I asked for flight following and was told it was included(go figure). Another leg I assumed it was 'included' and was surprised when they asked me if I wanted flight following, why yes, I would thanks. :)
 
bobmrg said:
Sometimes I think that this should be a sticky: AIM 4-2-1(b): "Since concise phraseology may not always be adequate, use whatever words are necessary to get your message across." IOW, stop looking for specific phraselogy.

Bob Gardner
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I agree with the AIM guidance and not to overthink or go wild about correct phraseology. But I don't agree it means we should not be looking for, understanding or using the common language that goes a long, long way to ensuring pilots and ATC understand what is being asked and what is being instructed. A Control Tower of Babel doesn't strike me as a particularly good idea from a safety standpoint.
 
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Sorta related... and a technique our VFR members might want to keep in their toolbag.

Travelling between KIWS (West Houston) and 11R (Brenham) VFR, I was with Flight Following and Houston Approach told me "Climb and maintain 4500". A few minutes after getting to that altitude, it became obvious that the upcoming cloud layer was at 4300 to 4600/4800 and it wasn't going to be possible to remain VFR at my assigned altitude.

I remembered a discussion my IFR instructor had about similar situations and gave it a try.

Me: "Houston Approach, Skylane 55WB has a request"
Appr: "55WB, Approach, say request"
Me: "55WB is unable to remain VFR at our assigned altitude. Can we get a block altitude range?"
Appr: "55WB, yes. Do you want 4500 and lower? Or 4500 and higher?"​

Since we were 30-40 miles from our destination, I chose lower since higher might require a pop up clearance if we couldn't find a convenient hole. But that we were granted the block was a nifty occurrence for me, and a surprise to my copilot who has been flying longer than me, but not yet started on her IFR training.

Anyhow, moral is that if you know your phraseology ("block altitude" in my case), the controllers are more than willing to work with you to provide you with what you want. As long as it doesn't cause a conflict with their bigger picture or create a safety of flight issue.
 
I would argue that the first two lines in that conversation were unnecessary. Since you were in already communication with them just start with your request.

After doing a TRACON tour, one thing that struck me was how little they can see and know about what is going on in our environment around us vs us who can see out the window so communicating what works and does not work for you is critical.
 
Shawn said:
I would argue that the first two lines in that conversation were unnecessary. Since you were in already communication with them just start with your request.
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Generally, I agree. But when the frequency is busy, I do what I did more as a courtesy to let them finish their 80 WPM gusting to 120 to others and then attend to lower priority me.

After doing a TRACON tour, one thing that struck me was how little they can see and know about what is going on in our environment around us vs us who can see out the window so communicating what works and does not work for you is critical.
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Big agreement here. Which is why I hope one day, we have a much simpler method of getting PIREPS into the system. Hopefully via our EFB of choice.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Sorta related... and a technique our VFR members might want to keep in their toolbag.

Travelling between KIWS (West Houston) and 11R (Brenham) VFR, I was with Flight Following and Houston Approach told me "Climb and maintain 4500". A few minutes after getting to that altitude, it became obvious that the upcoming cloud layer was at 4300 to 4600/4800 and it wasn't going to be possible to remain VFR at my assigned altitude.

I remembered a discussion my IFR instructor had about similar situations and gave it a try.

Me: "Houston Approach, Skylane 55WB has a request"
Appr: "55WB, Approach, say request"
Me: "55WB is unable to remain VFR at our assigned altitude. Can we get a block altitude range?"
Appr: "55WB, yes. Do you want 4500 and lower? Or 4500 and higher?"​

Since we were 30-40 miles from our destination, I chose lower since higher might require a pop up clearance if we couldn't find a convenient hole. But that we were granted the block was a nifty occurrence for me, and a surprise to my copilot who has been flying longer than me, but not yet started on her IFR training.

Anyhow, moral is that if you know your phraseology ("block altitude" in my case), the controllers are more than willing to work with you to provide you with what you want. As long as it doesn't cause a conflict with their bigger picture or create a safety of flight issue.
Click to expand...

All he had to say, in the presence of an altitude restriction, was "unable 4500 due to clouds request lower," preferably with a specific altitude. "Block altitude" is an IFR clearance request and is actually not appropriate here.

I've done this many times VFR inside Class B and C.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Generally, I agree. But when the frequency is busy, I do what I did more as a courtesy to let them finish their 80 WPM gusting to 120 to others and then attend to lower priority me.
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The counter argument to that logic is that "lower priority me" just took up almost twice as much valuable airtime as necessary on a busy frequency vs short and sweet request.

Once of FF, you are just a important as the big boys little put put plane!
 
agree on not saying "request" when saying "unable 4500, request lower" isn't much longer than saying you have a request. Don't worry, even if the controller is busy, he/she should be able to keep up with that call.
 
Boy you guys are rough today.

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It worked for me, and I was happy.
 
Ah, someone is always criticising the "way someone talks on freq". Heck, Ive heard pro pilots say "we need to get down to the airport". And it did the trick.
 
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