Flight Academy not willing to see instructors beforehand

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PaulS said:
Wait a minute, the op wanted to meet with the instructors, not fly with them. If he wants to fly with them, schedule a lesson and have at it, but I would expect a long wait to get through a list.

I'd be a little more forgiving if the op asked for times the cfi would be around, for example after a lesson with another student, then ask for a FEW MINUTES in between lessons. But in the end, expecting to interview each one, I see no value in that.
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I’ve done just that with every CFI I’ve ever hired. I talked, had a lesson then I hired the one I wanted to work with... I found it to be very beneficial. I will not do business with a school that assigns instructors.

that’s just my preference and I’m not pretentious enough to think it’s the only way to get the job done but there dang sure isn’t anything wrong with what I do.
 
Salty said:
Clip is telling a student he’s a bad student for wanting to meet his instructor, but you think I’m the one telling people how to do things?

Maybe you should put me back on ignore before you read anymore rational statements.
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Once again Salty you are imagining things. I never said anyone was a good or bad student. I said I am not wasting my time meeting for an interview. Let me know if you ever get a CFI and I’ll refer you all the interviews.
 
Clip4 said:
3000 hours. If you go to any of the military flying clubs with 141 schools that value is low.
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I consider 5000 hours moderate time, over 15000 high time. But according to your way of thinking I am extremely high time, if 3000 is already high time.
Tarheelpilot said:
I’ve done just that with every CFI I’ve ever hired. I talked, had a lesson then I hired the one I wanted to work with... I found it to be very beneficial. I will not do business with a school that assigns instructors.

that’s just my preference and I’m not pretentious enough to think it’s the only way to get the job done but there dang sure isn’t anything wrong with what I do.
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And don't forget that not only are you just assigned whomever they want to give you, it is likely their least busy instructor, and maybe they are not very busy because the students don't like them.
But if you the student ask for a different person, they will reluctantly assign you someone else, but if you two don't jive, it is the students fault....lol.

Not the two crappy instructors the students got saddled with, and meanwhile the students are expected to pay a large fee to be a customer there. The customer is right, and not some low time egomaniac, who has an overbearing sense of entitlement!
And since when was a measly 3000 hours the new threshold of high time???
I have well over double that, and do not consider myself high time. I still consider 3k low time, 5k-15k moderate hours, over 15k is more a high time pilot.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I will not do business with a school that assigns instructors.
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so who are you flying with around here then? Every school I know assigns instructors. Or are you saying that you a void all the schools?
 
bflynn said:
so who are you flying with around here then? Every school I know assigns instructors. Or are you saying that you a void all the schools?
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The last time I hired a CFI was for my commercial helicopter about 5 years ago in Mesa arizona. They were very accommodating. if you are referring to NC it’s been ~19 years since I was in primary training. The closest “school” to me now rents airplanes and all the instructors are independent. I get the distinct impression the instructors interview their students the same way I interview instructors.
 
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Well, to be honest I’ve started this thread to ask about your opinions on a flight school that not only doesn’t allow meeting your instructor beforehand, they don’t even let you choose one. The reason was because in the book “The Private Pilot Blueprint” by Jason Schappert, which I’d just read, he puts extra emphasis on choosing your instructor and some of the questions to ask them. This author seems highly experienced so I’m inclined to listen to him, although the feedback I’ve received here thus far has helped me make a more informed decision.

I just found it odd that a school wouldn’t let you pick your instructor and wanted to know your thoughts on the matter.

Someone mentioned that I’m a troll. Even in jest, I don’t think that’s fair.
 
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Gordon Freeman said:
Well, to be honest I’ve started this thread to ask about your opinions on a flight school that not only doesn’t allow meeting your instructor beforehand, they don’t even let you choose one. The reason was because in the book “The Private Pilot Blueprint” by Jason Schappert, which I’d just read, he puts extra emphasis on choosing your instructor and some of the questions to ask them. This author seems highly experienced so I’m inclined to listen to him, although the feedback I’ve received here thus far has helped me make a more informed decision.

I just found it odd that a school wouldn’t let you pick yourself instructor and wanted to know your thoughts on the matter.

Someone mentioned that I’m a troll. Even in jest, I don’t think that’s fair.
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You're not a troll, and yes definitely shop for the right school, and pick your own instructor at the school of your choice.
Ignore the bullies who think you, the paying customer are just dirt under their feet. You sure as heck don't want to fly with those people anyway!
 
Gordon Freeman said:
Well, to be honest I’ve started this thread to ask about your opinions on a flight school that not only doesn’t allow meeting your instructor beforehand, they don’t even let you choose one. The reason was because in the book “The Private Pilot Blueprint” by Jason Schappert, which I’d just read, he puts extra emphasis on choosing your instructor and some of the questions to ask them. This author seems highly experienced so I’m inclined to listen to him, although the feedback I’ve received here thus far has helped me make a more informed decision.

I just found it odd that a school wouldn’t let you pick yourself instructor and wanted to know your thoughts on the matter.

Someone mentioned that I’m a troll. Even in jest, I don’t think that’s fair.
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So short and sweet,

You’re not a troll, lots of new age sensitive types are going to be all sensitive type.

Walk away from that school, the CFI is the most important factor in your training, the school is irrelevant.
 
Gordon Freeman said:
Well, to be honest I’ve started this thread to ask about your opinions on a flight school that not only doesn’t allow meeting your instructor beforehand, they don’t even let you choose one. The reason was because in the book “The Private Pilot Blueprint” by Jason Schappert, which I’d just read, he puts extra emphasis on choosing your instructor and some of the questions to ask them. This author seems highly experienced so I’m inclined to listen to him, although the feedback I’ve received here thus far has helped me make a more informed decision.

I just found it odd that a school wouldn’t let you pick yourself instructor and wanted to know your thoughts on the matter.

Someone mentioned that I’m a troll. Even in jest, I don’t think that’s fair.
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lol, you want to interview instructors to pick the best one but you think Jason Schappert is a good example. Shows how good a job you'll do picking. Jason Schappert is "highly experienced" in self-promotion. That's his primary area of expertise.

LongRoadBob wrote the best post on this thread. The entire discussion about whether you should be allowed to interview instructors or not is a red herring.
 
So, for the OP, a curiosity question -

when you called the new school in Danbury, how many people did you talk to and for how long?
 
Gordon Freeman said:
Well, to be honest I’ve started this thread to ask about your opinions on a flight school that not only doesn’t allow meeting your instructor beforehand, they don’t even let you choose one. The reason was because in the book “The Private Pilot Blueprint” by Jason Schappert, which I’d just read, he puts extra emphasis on choosing your instructor and some of the questions to ask them. This author seems highly experienced so I’m inclined to listen to him, although the feedback I’ve received here thus far has helped me make a more informed decision.

I just found it odd that a school wouldn’t let you pick your instructor and wanted to know your thoughts on the matter.

Someone mentioned that I’m a troll. Even in jest, I don’t think that’s fair.
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That's an unwritten rule here, all new guys are trolls until proven otherwise. Don't sweat it. A good instructor is very important to success, also an available instructor is very important too. I flew at least once a week years ago when I got my ticket, it took about 6 months IIRC.
 
Gordon Freeman said:
Well, to be honest I’ve started this thread to ask about your opinions on a flight school that not only doesn’t allow meeting your instructor beforehand, they don’t even let you choose one. The reason was because in the book “The Private Pilot Blueprint” by Jason Schappert, which I’d just read, he puts extra emphasis on choosing your instructor and some of the questions to ask them. This author seems highly experienced so I’m inclined to listen to him, although the feedback I’ve received here thus far has helped me make a more informed decision.

I just found it odd that a school wouldn’t let you pick your instructor and wanted to know your thoughts on the matter.

Someone mentioned that I’m a troll. Even in jest, I don’t think that’s fair.
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Gordon,

I do not think you are a troll or a jerk, you are trying to get the best value for your training dollar. But your method is inconsistent with operating an efficient flight school.
 
Bring your dog to the interview... It won't waste much of the CFI's time, and you'll know right away...

Don't have a dog?

What's wrong with you, anyway?
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@Gordon Freeman, it’s your time and money and ultimately your safety and the safety of your passengers. There is nothing wrong with wanting to take a few minutes to talk to a perspective instructor. My experience with taking an instructor that was assigned to me left me with 2 mediocre instructors that were time building with no desire to teach, one very good instructor, and one downright awful one that took the controls from me so that he could buzz his buddies on the golf course and lake. They wasted my time and money and demonstrated to a very new student jack*ss behavior.
 
No need to interview an instructor. Just sit in on a few ground lessons. Just like auditing a college class. Flight school or instructor does not allow that.?? Time to move on.

I have had good instructors and not so good instructors. I only had one I will call a bad instructor and I say that because he rode my ticket to increase his pay without actually ''teaching'' anything, and he taught the information as it was given to him because he ''had'' to instruct, and it did not matter if that information was right or wrong. He was there only to put in his time. Not sure if this is coincidental or not but he was a former military instructor. No one liked him.

The ones I call not so good instructors had a teaching style that did not match up to my learning ability, so they were probably good instructors, but just not for me. Any flight school that sends a student away for changing instructors twice probably needs to go back to FOI. A CFI change can be good for a student that has reached that plateau. I did it as a student, and as an instructor.
 
If someone wanted to "interview me" as a CFI i'd run away. If someone popped into the flight school said you have any CFI's I could talk to then sure i'll meet you and chat for 5 min in between students. My flight school had 12 CFI's how are you going to schedule a time to even meet 2 or 3 of them? Much less find out which one to go with. Now as someone who would freelance cfi I would chat with you but thats more to determine if I would get along with you enough to be worth the hassle since CFIing is a paycut and cuts into off days so I do it more for "fun".
 
kayoh190 said:
You said your school has 200 students. What makes your puppy mill better than their puppy mill?
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In a “puppy mill”, the typical progression is private through CFI with a large percentage of the CFI graduate becoming instructors and training future instructors.

A typical CFI candidate has ~350 hours total time. The CFI training him under 141 is required to have 100 hours of previous ground training experience if teaching the ground portion of the CFI course and 400 instructional hours to teach to flight portion. That’s ~6 months experience as a CFI to teach a new CFI who has very little experience to begin with.

So what make our operation better - high time instructors. The number of students does not make a school a mill. You would be a very unhappy CFI student under our syllabus because it is very comprehensive and takes a lot to complete, and the CFI teaching you is going to have thousands of instructional hours.
 
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Clip4 said:
In a “puppy mill”, the typical progression is private through CFI with a large percentage of the CFI graduate becoming instructors and training future instructors.

A typical CFI candidate has ~350 hours total time. The CFI training him under 141 is required to have 100 hours of previous ground training experience if teaching the ground portion of the CFI course and 400 instructional hours to teach to flight portion. That’s ~6 months experience as a CFI to teach a new CFI who has very little experience to begin with.

So what make our operation better - high time instructors. The number of students does not make a school a mill. You would be a very unhappy CFI student under our syllabus because it is very comprehensive and takes a lot to complete, and the CFI teaching you is going to have thousands of instructional hours.
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How many students does one instructor typically have at a time?
 
James331 said:
How many students does one instructor typically have at a time?
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I really don’t know. Each instructor establishes their hours, work days and number of students. I would say 7 is about max because out more active guys are teaching the contracted training too.
 
Clip4 said:
In a “puppy mill”, the typical progression is private through CFI with a large percentage of the CFI graduate becoming instructors and training future instructors.

A typical CFI candidate has ~350 hours total time. The CFI training him under 141 is required to have 100 hours of previous ground training experience if teaching the ground portion of the CFI course and 400 instructional hours to teach to flight portion. That’s ~6 months experience as a CFI to teach a new CFI who has very little experience to begin with.

So what make our operation better - high time instructors. The number of students does not make a school a mill. You would be a very unhappy CFI student under our syllabus because it is very comprehensive and takes a lot to complete, and the CFI teaching you is going to have thousands of instructional hours.
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So what’s the name of this establishment, and where’s it located?
 
Besides if the owner of said flight school googled his companies name, this thread pops up, he reads the comments left by his employee, the firing would be mighty swift I'm sure.
 
Shuswap BC said:
Besides if the owner of said flight school googled his companies name, this thread pops up, he reads the comments left by his employee, the firing would be mighty swift I'm sure.
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Highly doubtful.
 
Shuswap BC said:
Email them a link to this thread, I would love to hear that feedback from the owner (s).
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As far as you know, I might be the owner. But if you read anything I have posted, I have never disparaged the company or anyone I have worked for. In fact you will not read a post from me so much as complaining about a student I have had.

I do defend many business practices that some of you disagree with.
 
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Very very doubtful lol.
You don't have an owner's mindset, which is customer service, building a good reputation, and the long term benefits of that success.
You are argumentative, confrontational, hate customers, no company pride, and short sighted.
 
When I began I tried to find good schools as I knew I would be going on in aviation and wanted to have a good education. My CFI for private was good enough, I got a lot of my training from the books and magazines I read on my own.
A few years later I had seen a lot of advertising for Flightsaftey , so I went to Vero Beach for instrument rating. I think the classroom part was probably pretty good, Im not sure since I had already done the written on my own. The CFI I got was not so good. He was ex Navy, could fly the plane just fine, but I cant remember a thing he told me today. He was also a chain smoker, so addicted that I once even let him light up in the plane and he burned a hole the rug. I did one hour in a acro biplane and he seemed bored with it, not having fun. F S, in my opinion was not worth the money. One thing in their advertising that seemed good to me was they claimed to be no. 1 in airline pilot training. I was naïve enough then that I didn't know then the explanation was they were the low bidder for the Saudi Arabian airline.
 
whoever you guys are trying to "talk" to must be a real winner... and they are on my ignore list so I just get to see the frustration in your posts... Do you all know how to use the ignoramus's function. I mean the ignore function
 
Bill Greenwood said:
When I began I tried to find good schools as I knew I would be going on in aviation and wanted to have a good education. My CFI for private was good enough, I got a lot of my training from the books and magazines I read on my own.
A few years later I had seen a lot of advertising for Flightsaftey , so I went to Vero Beach for instrument rating. I think the classroom part was probably pretty good, Im not sure since I had already done the written on my own. The CFI I got was not so good. He was ex Navy, could fly the plane just fine, but I cant remember a thing he told me today. He was also a chain smoker, so addicted that I once even let him light up in the plane and he burned a hole the rug. I did one hour in a acro biplane and he seemed bored with it, not having fun. F S, in my opinion was not worth the money. One thing in their advertising that seemed good to me was they claimed to be no. 1 in airline pilot training. I was naïve enough then that I didn't know then the explanation was they were the low bidder for the Saudi Arabian airline.
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Big difference between little plane FSI and real level D sim FSI
 
Shuswap BC said:
Very very doubtful lol.
You don't have an owner's mindset, which is customer service, building a good reputation, and the long term benefits of that success.
You are argumentative, confrontational, hate customers, no company pride, and short sighted.
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I am argumentative on this site because so many people here have zero concept of what’s required to operate an FBO, a flight school, or an airport.

If you desire to operate an aviation business where the customers set the prices and set the policies, please go into an aviation business.
 
James 331 Greaser, I don't think many beginning ifr students start in what you call, "real level D sim FSI". And we had a good Frasca simulator. I owned a Mooney, a little airplane. I doubt if many people, even John Travolta start in a 747.
 
Bill Greenwood said:
James 331 Greaser, I don't think many beginning ifr students start in what you call, "real level D sim FSI". And we had a good Frasca simulator. I owned a Mooney, a little airplane. I doubt if many people, even John Travolta start in a 747.
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Just saying, for a low time guy if you go to FSI you’re paying for the name and youd probably get a better bang for the buck with a small flying club or freelance CFI
 
Bill Greenwood said:
James 331 Greaser, I don't think many beginning ifr students start in what you call, "real level D sim FSI". And we had a good Frasca simulator. I owned a Mooney, a little airplane. I doubt if many people, even John Travolta start in a 747.
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Lol!!! John travolta!!!! Hahaha!!!!!

Seriously, level “D” is a thing. It’s a real simulator.
I’ve done five type ratings in the sim, and was legal to be PIC on the jet with passengers the next day without ever flying the airplane.
 
Clip4 said:
Not prestigious nor a secret, but where I live and work is none of your business. You have opted for an alias on this site and so have I.
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Really dude?

I may be mistaken, but I believe you said this school has over 300 students. You also throw out a number of upwards of 7 students per instructor.

If my math is right, that means there's 42.857 instructors working there. How are we possibly going to figure out who you are?

Unless you're that .857.
 
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Not that difficult to figure out. Airnav lists two places offering flight training at Westchester, Performance Flight and Academy of Aviation. One is small and the other is big.
 
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