Flew into the clouds at night sort of.

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

May the force be with you
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Just landed. I used all my resources and everything was showing 10 vis and overcast 1k above me. I guess the ceilings dropped pretty quick.

Flying over a relative large swath of darkness and something flashed in front of me and caught my attention. Thought maybe a strobe in my perif or something.

Then it happened again.

I could see plenty of lighting, sparse as it was on the ground when suddenly it was like having high beams on in the fog or something.

Freaked me out.

I was on FF and alt my descression so I dropped about 1k feet and was fine but I couldn't see any evidence of the overcast above me after I descended.

Very weird how invisible the clouds were until my landing light was reflecting at me.

First time that has happened to me.

In hindsight I remember center giving weather to folks and aging the phrase "more than an hour old"

I'm not a big night flyer. One more reason I guess.

Anyway, be careful up there.
 
Glad everything worked out for you.another experience you won’t forget.
 
I commuted to work and back this week in a 172 (2300 nm). Most of that at night, and it was perfect forecasted vfr at night.

I spent probably about 90 seconds in clouds at night that entire trip that I didn’t see until I was in them. Fly enough at night and it’ll happen no matter how perfect the weather is forecasted.

I did the whole trip IFR, for a reason.

Anyways. You may want to reconsider your reaction to that situation. A big descent like that as a reaction to going in the soup is a really great way to come from together.

Next time, switch to instruments, maintain altitude, execute a 180 degree turn.

Also, if this sort of thing doesn’t thrill you, get an instrument rating and use the hell out of it. Then it’s just a yawn and no coming from together to worry about.
 
James331 said:
Just turn your landing light off
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Learn that trick from another pilot in a C402. He had all the lights out shooting am ILS and we went missed approach as we couldn't see anything. Came back for another ILS and he left the landing lights off this time, picked up the approach lights and SFL and landed fine. First time we were getting reflection back from the cloud/fog, whatever it was. Used it a few times in later years myself.
 
Question for 6PC: what temperature change is required to lower the ceiling 1,000 ft? Lots of assumptions in that estimate of course but it can be worth thinking about when a temperature inversion isn’t expected with nightfall.
 
This is one big reason I don’t fly much at night (at all) until I have some good amount of hood time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Just wait til it happens to you in the flare . . . . Fortunately my wife knows where the landing light switch is, and when I yelled she turned it off, just as the wheels touched . . . .

Fly enough, you'll find something you don't like.
 
Thanks for this post. Was always surprised at how lax night flying and currency requirements are. Definitely much different up there at night, and (in my opinion at least) even a crystal clear VFR night is going to be much more similar to IFR flying than day VFR

Sounds like you handled the whole thing professionally and "textbook"

kudos!
 
Tantalum said:
Sounds like you handled the whole thing professionally and "textbook"

kudos!
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Wellll, I wouldn't go THAT far, geesh, 6PC's head is already big enough with him producing and starring in videos. Don't feed the animal man! ;):D
 
Glad that you kept your wits about you (well, as much as Brian with a Y can) and didn't let the clouds confuse you! ;)
 
Some countries require all night ops to be ifr because of what you experienced. We have a lot of freedom here and with it comes great responsibility.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Some countries require all night ops to be ifr because of what you experienced. We have a lot of freedom here and with it comes great responsibility.
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It's great not to live in a day care state.
 
Glad everything worked out. You knew it was safe to descend 1000ft because you have the MEF for that area memorized, right?
 
In the 90's I lived in SoCal. I would point at the brown hazy sky in the distance and say "That's why I don't live over there, it's always blue where I am."
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Just landed. I used all my resources and everything was showing 10 vis and overcast 1k above me. I guess the ceilings dropped pretty quick.

Flying over a relative large swath of darkness and something flashed in front of me and caught my attention. Thought maybe a strobe in my perif or something.

Then it happened again.

I could see plenty of lighting, sparse as it was on the ground when suddenly it was like having high beams on in the fog or something.

Freaked me out.

I was on FF and alt my descression so I dropped about 1k feet and was fine but I couldn't see any evidence of the overcast above me after I descended.

Very weird how invisible the clouds were until my landing light was reflecting at me.

First time that has happened to me.

In hindsight I remember center giving weather to folks and aging the phrase "more than an hour old"

I'm not a big night flyer. One more reason I guess.

Anyway, be careful up there.
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Them cloud thangs can be hard to see at night. Which be why IFR capability be required for SVFR at night. Doin SVFR at night is askin for it. Like ya saw, just millin around with wx conditions VFR without SVFR on yer mind can be kinda sketchy to. Severe VFR forecasts is not a bad limit for night flyin if you can't deal with goin popeye
 
asicer said:
Glad everything worked out. You knew it was safe to descend 1000ft because you have the MEF for that area memorized, right?
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Ha! Yes. Very familiar with the location. No towers at 5500 feet in that part of Oklahoma.
If I recall, at the time, my sectional showed 1700 was the tallest obstacle
 
I once was chasing an ELT at night in the clouds with a good friend of mine (and excellent instrument pilot) in the left seat. After a while we decided to turn on the landing lights. The inside of a cloud at night looks scary, so we turned them off again! Lesson learned.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Very weird how invisible the clouds were until my landing light was reflecting at me.
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The same thing can happen when the vis is reduced to 3-4 miles and you're flying VFR in the day. The clouds can blend into the haze and you can be in them before you realize it. Glad you had a nice out and everything worked out!
 
My wife’s grandfather was always shocked we are allowed to fly at night with an ifr rating in the states. Almost done with the rating and am having a blast.
 
You need to buy an SVT display with cloud depiction.
 
Velocity173 said:
You need to buy an SVT display with cloud depiction.
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Those are only available in the experimental world. No STC, but Garmin has their heads in the clouds all the time so maybe they have something in the works.
 
asicer said:
You knew it was safe to descend 1000ft because you have the MEF for that area memorized, right?
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The one time I had everything go grey on me, MEF wasn't an issue because I was already well below it. Plus no gyros. OTOH, it was daylight.:dunno:
 
Hank S said:
Just wait til it happens to you in the flare . . . . Fortunately my wife knows where the landing light switch is, and when I yelled she turned it off, just as the wheels touched . . . .

Fly enough, you'll find something you don't like.
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Had that happen several times in Alaska each winter. Sky clear above 10 feet. 10 feet and lower ground blizzard blowing so hard that the runway lights disappear. Transition to instruments in the flair, wait for wheels to touch, then follow compass to go straight. Learned to land near the runway lights hoping to see something for guidance to stay on the runway.
 
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Zeldman said:
Had that happen a several times in Alaska each winter. Sky clear above 10 feet. 10 feet and lower ground blizzard blowing so hard that the runway lights disappear. Transition to instruments in the flair, wait for wheels to touch, then follow compass to go straight. Learned to land near the runway lights hoping to see something for guidance to stay on the runway.
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Naw, it was sky clear and runway clear in the pattern. Nothing was forecast, either, but as we came in to land ~10pm, right there in the flare everytnjng went shiny white . . . .
 
Hank S said:
Naw, it was sky clear and runway clear in the pattern. Nothing was forecast, either, but as we came in to land ~10pm, right there in the flare everytnjng went shiny white . . . .
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It does make ya sit up and pay attention...
 
Radar Contact said:
The same thing can happen when the vis is reduced to 3-4 miles and you're flying VFR in the day. The clouds can blend into the haze and you can be in them before you realize it. Glad you had a nice out and everything worked out!
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Yep. I once turned back from a trip from 76G to one of the Lake Erie islands - either 3W2 or 89D, can't recall which one, but it was with a passenger, we were over Lake St. Clair, and I remember telling her that we were effectively IMC and I couldn't be sure how much longer we were going to be legal, if we even were at that point. She agreed that she didn't want me to do anything illegal. ;)

That was before I was instrument rated but after I had had many hours under the hood, so by then my main concern was not violating the vis and cloud clearance minimums. I was on the gauges anyway from much earlier, and brought us back to good VMC and the sight of an impressive corn maze.

OTOH many years earlier I once flew straight into lowering clouds. That was before I started instrument training, and was a much scarier experience. It happened so fast I was in them before I realized what was happening. Like 6PC, I opted to descend and continued to my destination, but with extreme caution since I was concerned about a tower in the area. So yes, it can happen in daytime as well.
 
jesse said:
Fly enough at night and it’ll happen no matter how perfect the weather is forecasted.
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Move to El Paso! 100 of my 750 hours are night. We get IFR maybe once a year, and you can't fly it unless you want to ice up. To reach IMC around here, you need to climb well above 18k most days.
 
jesse said:
Fly enough at night and it’ll happen no matter how perfect the weather is forecasted.
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danhagan said:
Move to El Paso! 100 of my 750 hours are night. We get IFR maybe once a year, and you can't fly it unless you want to ice up. To reach IMC around here, you need to climb well above 18k most days.
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Most aircraft owners leave their region from time to time.
 
jesse said:
Most aircraft owners leave their region from time to time.
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West bound is the same weather until past Banning Pass, Eastbound the same past Ft. Stockton, South blocked by Mexico, North the same all the way to Colorado ... guess my "region" is a little bigger than others;)
 
azure said:
Yep. I once turned back from a trip from 76G to one of the Lake Erie islands - either 3W2 or 89D, can't recall which one, but it was with a passenger, we were over Lake St. Clair, and I remember telling her that we were effectively IMC and I couldn't be sure how much longer we were going to be legal, if we even were at that point. She agreed that she didn't want me to do anything illegal. ;)

That was before I was instrument rated but after I had had many hours under the hood, so by then my main concern was not violating the vis and cloud clearance minimums. I was on the gauges anyway from much earlier, and brought us back to good VMC and the sight of an impressive corn maze.

OTOH many years earlier I once flew straight into lowering clouds. That was before I started instrument training, and was a much scarier experience. It happened so fast I was in them before I realized what was happening. Like 6PC, I opted to descend and continued to my destination, but with extreme caution since I was concerned about a tower in the area. So yes, it can happen in daytime as well.
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Smoke is one that is deceptive out here in the west. The plumes from some wildfires stretch for hundreds of miles and can effectively be IMC when ground contact is lost. Things would get real dark real fast if ya flew into one at night.
 
Clark1961 said:
Smoke is one that is deceptive out here in the west. The plumes from some wildfires stretch for hundreds of miles and can effectively be IMC when ground contact is lost. Things would get real dark real fast if ya flew into one at night.
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Wouldn't they already be real dark if you flew into it at night? :D

j/k

Yeah, there are so many scenarios where pilots can unwittingly stray into instrument conditions. That is why I'm an advocate of even VFR pilots getting and maintaining enough proficiency on instruments to be able to hold it together flying on the gauges for however long it takes to exit the conditions. The 3 hours you get as a student pilot aren't enough, especially if they were years ago and you haven't had any hood time since.
 
but if u can see thru them they aren't clouds. right?
 
Radar Contact said:
The same thing can happen when the vis is reduced to 3-4 miles and you're flying VFR in the day. The clouds can blend into the haze and you can be in them before you realize it. Glad you had a nice out and everything worked out!
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It's hazy here in the summer, and going into the sun the visibility is pretty bad. You could stumble into a cloud or worse if you're not careful.
 
FormerHangie said:
It's hazy here in the summer, and going into the sun the visibility is pretty bad. You could stumble into a cloud or worse if you're not careful.
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I've been flying along with great flight and ground visibility, cruising home to WV. When I began descending, it whited out from about 6000/6500 until I began to see hilltops appear as I came through 3000msl. By 2500, once again green hills and blue skies, nary a cloud to be seen. I logged those minutes descending as Actual IMC. Stuff happens . . . It was nothing but haze.
 
Clouds. Night. Mountains.

Pick one.

Two is too much for this IFR pilot.
 
I have flown in the White and Green Mountains of New England at night, and would again. But only in a plane that I trust (i.e. one that I own and maintain to my own satisfaction). Clouds I haven't done here at night, but it wouldn't add much to the equation for me. If I'm proficient, it makes no difference; if I'm not, I shouldn't be flying IFR anyway.

I have no experience in the mountains of the western US, though.
 
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