Flat Spin Crash caught on video

Sad. Doesn't look like a flat spin though...
 
Vfr into imc..... I wonder if he was instrument rated. Rip.
 
Looks clear, blue and 22 to me.
 
I tried to resist.. but can't. Video like this really need to be banned by edict. I can't see a thing, just a tiny narrow blue string and the roof of some stupid European hatchback (Opel Astra?). People who film like this need to have their phones thrown in the trash and their ability to ever record video again removed

upload_2022-2-17_13-55-29.png

Seriously though, what the F? How can an intelligent, evolved, thinking and breathing intellectual human being film like that
 
..now the accident. It says training flight but he's solo. Presumably before he got signed off he did stall maneuvers and how to avoid / escape them. A C-172 is arguably the easiest plane to fly, let go of the controls and it will basically start flying again - it seems this poor guy did something, panicked, and just froze on the controls. Sad honestly, 26 is too young.
 
Tantalum said:
People who film like this need to have their phones thrown in the trash and their ability to ever record video again removed...Seriously though, what the F? How can an intelligent, evolved, thinking and breathing intellectual human being film like that
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I hope you are able to make a more entertaining video when you have the privilege of watching someone die.

Nauga,
and different perspective
 
isn't the past tense of spin, spun?

EDIT:
span
/span/

verb
past tense: span
  1. archaic or non-standard past of spin.
 
Looks to be an ordinary spin. In an older 172 [my sample size is two, one I owned for a couple of decades], you literally have to hold the controls in the "spin position" or it will try quite hard to straighten itself out.
As to IMC, I don't see any, and even if there was, from the start of the video a recovery was potentially possible.
 
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/275572

I watched a guy spin it in once. There's an imaginary line where you can tell it's too late to recover. When I saw him pass that "line", I knew it was over.

I don't know what happened in this case, but @Tantalum 's comment above about freezing on the controls seems like a possibility.
 
nauga said:
I hope you are able to make a more entertaining video when you have the privilege of watching someone die.

Nauga,
and different perspective
Click to expand...
I didn't even see the airplane. I remember a previous thread there was issue taken at video quality from accidents. But they can and do help understand what went wrong to prevent future accidents. Dam failures, bridge collapses, etc. It's not about entertainment, it's understanding how the event happened so we can learn and prevent. My issue is when someone can't take the fraction of effort to rotate the phone, or, more insidiously (and to your point, which I agree with) leave it portrait on purpose in order to post it to social media (which has created a platform catering to portrait mode video)
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Looks to be an ordinary spin. In an older 172 [my sample size is two, one I owned for a couple of decades], you literally have to hold the controls in the "spin position" or it will try quite hard to straighten itself out.
As to IMC, I don't see any, and even if there was, from the start of the video a recovery was potentially possible.
Click to expand...

The only thing I will ask is if it was an ordinary spin, how do you account for the flat attitude of the impact. Most ordinary spins I have seen have a nose down attitude. The post crash pictures look like the plane impacted fairly level, not nose down.
 
Tantalum said:
..now the accident. It says training flight but he's solo. Presumably before he got signed off he did stall maneuvers and how to avoid / escape them. A C-172 is arguably the easiest plane to fly, let go of the controls and it will basically start flying again - it seems this poor guy did something, panicked, and just froze on the controls. Sad honestly, 26 is too young.
Click to expand...
One of the links says it's a 150 Aerobat, not a 172. That makes it more likely, he might have botched a hammerhead which can lead to an inverted spin.
 
Tantalum said:
It's not about entertainment, it's understanding how the event happened so we can learn and prevent.
Click to expand...
You and I also have very different opinions of the 'learning and prevention' that occurs on POA in the absence of valid forensic analysis.

Nauga,
out of thin air
 
The engine noise certainly sounds like a four cylinder aviation engine, and it sounds like it's at least at cruise power. Maybe that explains the flatter look to the spin? Don't know, but we all know to get the power out as the first step of spin recovery.
 
Tantalum said:
I didn't even see the airplane. I remember a previous thread there was issue taken at video quality from accidents. But they can and do help understand what went wrong to prevent future accidents. Dam failures, bridge collapses, etc. It's not about entertainment, it's understanding how the event happened so we can learn and prevent. My issue is when someone can't take the fraction of effort to rotate the phone, or, more insidiously (and to your point, which I agree with) leave it portrait on purpose in order to post it to social media (which has created a platform catering to portrait mode video)
Click to expand...
So it’s important to video a vertical action in a horizontal mode?
 
Dana said:
One of the links says it's a 150 Aerobat, not a 172. That makes it more likely, he might have botched a hammerhead which can lead to an inverted spin.
Click to expand...

It would require an extremely heroic effort to spin inverted out of a hammer attempt in an Aerobat. They barely have any energy left after pulling vertical, not to mention limited rudder and elevator authority. This can happen in Pitts types if you REALLY botch it by kicking way too early with too much speed and stuffing the stick in the right front corner...which basically results in a low speed negative vertical snap that can decay into an inverted spin if you sit there with the controls deflected. Not gonna happen in an Aerobat, plus you can see in the video - and of course the crash pic - that the spin was upright. He sat there locked on the controls the whole way down with plenty of time to recover.
 
Dana said:
One of the links says it's a 150 Aerobat, not a 172. That makes it more likely, he might have botched a hammerhead which can lead to an inverted spin.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a 150 will do a "real" spin that can require modest inputs. In terms of inverted, I simply couldn't tell much from the video. I've had them appear to "roll over on their back" at the start but only a transient thing.
 
Pre 1970 Cessna 150 (short dorsal fin, flat spring gear). Definitely a spin wreckage signature
 
You stall. You freeze. You keep pulling back. Wouldn’t that look like that. Maybe something just broke at the worst possible time. Not sure what they do for accident investigations in Spain.
 
benyflyguy said:
Not sure what they do for accident investigations in Spain.
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From the news report:

"The Civil Guard is already investigating the circumstances of the incident, verifying that the plane was flying according to a flight previously scheduled and registered by the authorities."
 
Dana said:
From the news report:

"The Civil Guard is already investigating the circumstances of the incident, verifying that the plane was flying according to a flight previously scheduled and registered by the authorities."
Click to expand...

Thank God for that. Always my first question when something like this happens.
 
Tantalum said:
I tried to resist.. but can't. Video like this really need to be banned by edict. I can't see a thing, just a tiny narrow blue string and the roof of some stupid European hatchback (Opel Astra?). People who film like this need to have their phones thrown in the trash and their ability to ever record video again removed

View attachment 104720

Seriously though, what the F? How can an intelligent, evolved, thinking and breathing intellectual human being film like that
Click to expand...
I forgot your disdain for portrait mode rivals that of your disdain for 172's.
 
RoscoeT said:
It would require an extremely heroic effort to spin inverted out of a hammer attempt in an Aerobat. They barely have any energy left after pulling vertical, not to mention limited rudder and elevator authority. This can happen in Pitts types if you REALLY botch it by kicking way too early with too much speed and stuffing the stick in the right front corner...which basically results in a low speed negative vertical snap that can decay into an inverted spin if you sit there with the controls deflected. Not gonna happen in an Aerobat, plus you can see in the video - and of course the crash pic - that the spin was upright. He sat there locked on the controls the whole way down with plenty of time to recover.
Click to expand...

Or jump, were he so equipped. Of course when he let go of the controls to bail out, the spin would have stopped and he would have rediscovered Beggs-Mueller.
 
nauga said:
You and I also have very different opinions of the 'learning and prevention' that occurs on POA in the absence of valid forensic analysis.

Nauga,
out of thin air
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I'm just saying that, outside of PoA, when bad things happen being able to see what occurred may help experts (not PoA necessarily) in the pursuit of that forensic analysis. If you're going to record what happened, at least try and do so in a manner that will help someone else bring some good out of it .. and presumably send that to the relevant authority. Was it in one piece? Can you hear the engine making power? Are the control surfaces visible? They're all clues that someone can use
 
Tantalum said:
I'm just saying that, outside of PoA, when bad things happen being able to see what occurred may help experts (not PoA necessarily) in the pursuit of that forensic analysis. If you're going to record what happened, at least try and do so in a manner that will help someone else bring some good out of it .. and presumably send that to the relevant authority. Was it in one piece? Can you hear the engine making power? Are the control surfaces visible? They're all clues that someone can use
Click to expand...

Yep. When I was involved in the Edwards AFB YF-22 mishap investigation back in 1994, it was great to have the video of the low pass that was being attempted before the PIO happened. Not to mention all the telemetry data off the mishap aircraft. :)
 
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