First time IFR

Caramon13

Caramon13

Pattern Altitude
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Romeo
Hi all,

My first real IMC since getting my instrument rating...video below. It's 10 minutes in length, songs include Come Fly With Me (Sinatra), Vertigo (U2) and Wild is the Wind (Bon Jovi) all appropriate for this flight...hope you enjoy it!

https://youtu.be/T94P4UjP6s0
 
That's why you get the instrument ticket. I've done similar and it's just so much fun!

Great video thanks for sharing it:)
 
Nice first IFR on your own!! Fly in IMC often and stay proficient.
 
Thanks all! I hope to do many more of these. It was sobering hitting that first "wall" of clouds. The instructors and DPEs can test you forever on it, but until you actually hit that layer on your own you really don't know what to expect. Took me a few moments to feel comfortable with it then, was fine.

Loved the flight and have been waiting to do it for a VERY long time now.
 
Glad you enjoyed it,keep it up. It's a great feeling when you complete a flight IMC.
 
Great video. Thanks for posting. I am glad you enjoyed it.
 
Looks like a lot fun! Can't wait to give it a shot myself.
 
It was a blast Riley, nothing quite compares to ACTUAL time in the clouds. I was a bit surprised when I went into the layer, even though I did some actual imc time for the rating it was under the hood I never got to take the foggles off.

Having no hood on and looking around to ONLY see white is a bit intimidating, but MAN it's a great feeling to breakout and be exactly where you want to be.

And thanks to everyone above for your comments, glad you enjoyed my little trip into IMC :)
 
Caramon13 said:
I did some actual imc time for the rating it was under the hood I never got to take the foggles off.
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If you were in actual IMC for any length of time and the instructor made you keep the foggles on, then shame on him.

Having no hood on and looking around to ONLY see white is a bit intimidating,
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Actual is MUCH different than simulated.

I'm of the opinion that the IFR training should REQUIRE at least 5-10 of the hours be in IMC. Enough chances come up that I think it's certainly possible. Perhaps not in all areas of the country I guess, but definitely here in the midwest...

but MAN it's a great feeling to breakout and be exactly where you want to be.
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It sure is! Nothing like getting below the layer and seeing the runway!
 
In and out of tops are fun! Did that all the way across Georgia on Saturday.

For real excitement, wait until you take your first non-pilot passenger on a trip, ending with an approach in actual, breaking out and right there is the runway!
 
Hank S said:
For real excitement, wait until you take your first non-pilot passenger on a trip, ending with an approach in actual, breaking out and right there is the runway!
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My sister would never go up with me even on the nicest of days when I got my PPL. A week after I got my IR, she asked if I could take her up. Ceilings were around 500ft and a few miles vis and asked her if she really wanted to go. She ended up loving it. Go figure.
 
Hank S said:
In and out of tops are fun! Did that all the way across Georgia on Saturday.

For real excitement, wait until you take your first non-pilot passenger on a trip, ending with an approach in actual, breaking out and right there is the runway!
Click to expand...

In and out of the tops... Isn't that a bumpy ride?
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I'm of the opinion that the IFR training should REQUIRE at least 5-10 of the hours be in IMC. Enough chances come up that I think it's certainly possible. Perhaps not in all areas of the country I guess...
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You guess right. Your requirement would cost other people a lot of money.
 
Great video. Thanks!
 
midlifeflyer said:
You guess right. Your requirement would cost other people a lot of money.
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I see this argument a lot when the topic of required actual comes up. I am lucky enough to live in New England where we have a lot of IMC conditions so this wouldn't be hard to fulfill. I got my IFR rating because I wanted to fly and those conditions prevented me from doing it more often than they should have.

When you get to talking about PPLs earning their IFR in Arizona or somewhere that is severe clear most days there are 2 schools of folks:

1) Folks who are going to fly somewhere and use the rating, these may be folks aspiring for a commercial that need the IFR. The value of this experience has been covered extensively If Action Multi can get me 7 hours of multi time in a weekend for $2500 getting 5 hours of actual in a weekend somewhere should be $1500 - $2k including airfare and a night of hotel. This adds roughly $500-$1k(10-20%) to a rating that already costs 5-7k. You could even do this with your instructor and bag some XC time in the process. With a little creativity this can be a non-event.
2) Folks are getting the rating and letting it sit, this doesn't benefit anyone and is contrary to safety as many have pointed out in this thread.

The first time I came out of the clouds at 300 AGL was eye opening and completely different from coming out at mins on an ILS. You learn quick how IMC -> VMC isn't nearly binary.
 
airheadpenguin said:
I see this argument a lot when the topic of required actual comes up. I am lucky enough to live in New England where we have a lot of IMC conditions so this wouldn't be hard to fulfill. I got my IFR rating because I wanted to fly and those conditions prevented me from doing it more often than they should have.

When you get to talking about PPLs earning their IFR in Arizona or somewhere that is severe clear most days there are 2 schools of folks:

1) Folks who are going to fly somewhere and use the rating, these may be folks aspiring for a commercial that need the IFR. The value of this experience has been covered extensively If Action Multi can get me 7 hours of multi time in a weekend for $2500 getting 5 hours of actual in a weekend somewhere should be $1500 - $2k including airfare and a night of hotel. This adds roughly $500-$1k(10-20%) to a rating that already costs 5-7k. You could even do this with your instructor and bag some XC time in the process. With a little creativity this can be a non-event.
2) Folks are getting the rating and letting it sit, this doesn't benefit anyone and is contrary to safety as many have pointed out in this thread.

The first time I came out of the clouds at 300 AGL was eye opening and completely different from coming out at mins on an ILS. You learn quick how IMC -> VMC isn't nearly binary.
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Not sure how you plan a weekend in the future for training knowing the weather will be 300 ovc.
Anyway, I think most thoughts were expressed in the other thread.
 
300 AGL is tough to get on any given weekend, 2000AGL is pretty easy to get in the spring and most of the summer IMC can be had at < 8k MSL
 
airheadpenguin said:
300 AGL is tough to get on any given weekend, 2000AGL is pretty easy to get in the spring and most of the summer IMC can be had at < 8k MSL
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I gotta say... I lived in New England most of my life. I got my private and was a CFI in Connecticut. I flew checks out of ALB for a year, and flew four years for a commuter airline in the early 90's. Heck, I flew corporate for 20 years after that based in CT. I just don't remember most of the summer being 2000 ovc.

Regardless, I am of the belief that more intense training can be done when simulated.
 
airheadpenguin said:
I see this argument a lot when the topic of required actual comes up. I am lucky enough to live in New England where we have a lot of IMC conditions so this wouldn't be hard to fulfill. I got my IFR rating because I wanted to fly and those conditions prevented me from doing it more often than they should have.
Click to expand...
You're lucky to live in a part of New England where benign actual is easy to come by, but that's not true everywhere. Up here around KMPV, flyable IMC is about as common as an albino German shepherd. There are usually a few days in the fall when it's OVC005 with decent ground visibility, but that's it. Most of the time if it's not icing weather, IFR conditions means 0/0. Once earlier this fall I chased the low clouds down to KCON and KDAW, but it's too far to do that on a regular basis.
 
airheadpenguin said:
I see this argument a lot when the topic of required actual comes up. I am lucky enough to live in New England where we have a lot of IMC conditions so this wouldn't be hard to fulfill. I got my IFR rating because I wanted to fly and those conditions prevented me from doing it more often than they should have.

When you get to talking about PPLs earning their IFR in Arizona or somewhere that is severe clear most days there are 2 schools of folks:

1) Folks who are going to fly somewhere and use the rating, these may be folks aspiring for a commercial that need the IFR. The value of this experience has been covered extensively If Action Multi can get me 7 hours of multi time in a weekend for $2500 getting 5 hours of actual in a weekend somewhere should be $1500 - $2k including airfare and a night of hotel. This adds roughly $500-$1k(10-20%) to a rating that already costs 5-7k. You could even do this with your instructor and bag some XC time in the process. With a little creativity this can be a non-event.
2) Folks are getting the rating and letting it sit, this doesn't benefit anyone and is contrary to safety as many have pointed out in this thread.

The first time I came out of the clouds at 300 AGL was eye opening and completely different from coming out at mins on an ILS. You learn quick how IMC -> VMC isn't nearly binary.
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I think you are limiting your "schools of thought."

My perspective? I learned to fly and earned my instrument rating in New England and then moved to Colorado. I had a pretty decent amount to actual during my training, including the experience of a real missed approach on an ILS (should that be a requirement also? seems to me that is one of the most potentially disastrous "normal" instrument maneuvers). My first solo IFR flight (and my last before moving to Colorado) involved breaking out on an ILS at about 300 above DA. OTOH, I earned my CFII in Colorado, where flyable actual exists for about 2 weeks in June.

There are indeed people who get the rating and don't use itl. I agree this is going to be more prevalent in clearer climates. But your #2 misses the pilots who have personal minimums that limit their exposure to the more butt-clenching aspects of IFR flight. I'm not sure that this is necessarily geography dependent.

Your #1 misses the ability of pilots to make good decisions, including decisions about additional and recurrent training. There are many things pilots are not exposed to in the course of acquiring certificates and ratings that are "good ideas" but are also not requirements. Some parts of the country are blessed with light winds or runway substantially into the prevailing wind. Should there be a requirement that a CFI find the right airport on the right day so a student can be exposed to a crosswind component that equals or approaches the max demonstrated component? Someone asked whether there accident statistics to say this was a problem. If you find any, I'd suggest comparing them with VFR accidents in the Colorado Rockies by transient pilots. I suspect the Rockies wold win but that's no reason for impose a "mountain endorsement" requirement.
 
jordane93 said:
My sister would never go up with me even on the nicest of days when I got my PPL. A week after I got my IR, she asked if I could take her up. Ceilings were around 500ft and a few miles vis and asked her if she really wanted to go. She ended up loving it. Go figure.
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You're not seeing the big picture here, she's afraid of heights, that's why she won't go on VFR days. But in IMC, she's all cool. :D
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Actual is MUCH different than simulated.
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For me, it was not. I think I might be different than most. I stay on instruments and fly the plane. *shrug*
Though I agree that the safety factor in actual is different. "If my engine quits, I will be blindly gliding until I break out with a just few seconds to find a pasture."

fiveoboy01 said:
I'm of the opinion that the IFR training should REQUIRE at least 5-10 of the hours be in IMC. Enough chances come up that I think it's certainly possible. Perhaps not in all areas of the country I guess, but definitely here in the midwest...
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Amen to that.
However, it might not be easy to achieve, as you pointed out. Down here in TX, we got lucky that we have some nice IMC this week but it is about to lift. :(

fiveoboy01 said:
Caramon13 said:
but MAN it's a great feeling to breakout and be exactly where you want to be.
Click to expand...
It sure is! Nothing like getting below the layer and seeing the runway!
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Oh heck yeah, always. Once I get my ticket finished, I wonder how the wife will react "hey, there's a runway there, did you know that??" :D
 
BigBadLou said:
For me, it was not.
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I got a decent amount of actual during my training, and I don't recall whether it was a substantial difference for me at the beginning.

But I did notice a big difference on my first solo IFR flight, enough of one that I recall it more than 23 years later like it was yesterday.

I had taken off into a 1200' ceiling in Connecticut the early evening and next saw anything other than the inside of a cloud when I broke out about 300' above minimums on the KISP ILS at night.

I distinctly recall flying along thinking, "Wow, this is easy without that stupid hood on!"
 
Awesome! One of my mostest favorite parts of IFR is getting to cruise on the cloud ceiling, popping in and out of the clouds. feels like you are all by yourself up there.
 
I'm still wondering what it will be like with the wifey in the plane during actual IMC, it's really too bad that we don't have more of it during the day here in FL (unless you count 7 AM in the middle of the state).

Dee I agree. I love cloud surfing :). I did it before I got my PPL and rating once. My CFII picked up a pop-up clearance so we could shoot the ILS approach. Clouds were low enough where it was necessary.

We entered IMC and slowly eased out of the clouds RIGHT at sunset. Below the clouds it was an ugly gray evening. Above was this purplish glow of velvet as the sun set and we just waded through the clouds nice and slow. Never will forget that, or settling down through the puffy cotton ball type clouds in the summer for the first time.

It's the kind of stuff you can sometimes take for granted being a pilot, but there is a VERY small percentage of people world-wide who will ever have that feeling, kinda makes you feel special :).
 
Lou, one of the biggest "features" on the plane that I put in that the wife loves is the isolation on the GMA-347. I can isolate me and ATC and she can listen to her "ebook" while chatting with our son in the back. Kinda like two separate flying experiences on the same plane. I do wish she was a bit more engaged, but ah well, it is what it is..
 
Np. I was just pointing out that my wife is cool. :thumbsup:

I understand your use of the isolation switch. So far, though, I haven't had a chance to use it that way because usually it is just the two of us in the plane and during critical phases of flight, I want her to listen in on the ATC comms just in case I don't hear something clearly, I can ask "what did he say?" and she can help out. :)

Otherwise, I mostly fly with other pilots so there the isolation switch is not used either because they can help as well.

And sorry for the thread 7500, OP.
 
Caramon13 said:
I'm still wondering what it will be like with the wifey in the plane during actual IMC, it's really too bad that we don't have more of it during the day here in FL (unless you count 7 AM in the middle of the state).
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You don't know until you do. A lot may have to do with how you approach it. Show lack of confidence and concern? That's going to be shared. Show confidence and competence, she has a better chance.

Of course, if she knows you called her "wifey" all bets are off! :D

My wife loved the clouds from the first time I took her into them. Even after our bad adventure.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You don't know until you do. A lot may have to do with how you approach it. Show lack of confidence and concern? That's going to be shared. Show confidence and competence, she has a better chance.
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Absolutely, I cannot agree more. If my wife didn't feel I was a safe PIC, we'd drive. (to those who don't know her, she's deathly afraid of flying but she flies with me ... and me only - don't ask my why, it might have to do with the reason she married me in the first place :) )

midlifeflyer said:
Of course, if she knows you called her "wifey" all bets are off! :D
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I sometimes call my wife "wifey", as a playful word. She calls herself that too, for that matter. Now when she switches to "knifey wifey", I grab the car keys and go for a drive. :D

midlifeflyer said:
My wife loved the clouds from the first time I took her into them. Even after our bad adventure.
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I am thinking I can introduce my wife(y) :D to the clouds by filing for the tops (if I can get so precisely lucky one day) or at least VFR-on-top on a BKN day. If she likes the view from above, she is more likely to enjoy the flight.
 
Prolly not good to post a vid of busting VFR mins. Just sayin.
 
BigBadLou said:
We're talking IFR so I assume everybody involved is on the same page as far as filing and rules go.
If not, please do post a YT video for everybody to criticize!! :D
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You missed the other thread. :D
 
EdFred said:
You missed the other thread. :D
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I am afraid so.

Now please excuse me, it is time for me to go fly ....... down the highway at triple digit speeds ... with wind in my hair. (don't ask, my Z28 convertible is so much fun) Now where is my pilot's license again? In case I get pulled over. :)
 
BigBadLou said:
Awwww, come on. I must be weird because I actually enjoy talking to my wife. :)
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Haha me too, but not during approaches! (She's really good about not starting conversations in critical phases of flight after all the years she's ridden shotgun, actually.)

But with anyone else on board I'm more than willing to throw that Isolate switch if I need it and make them all disappear from my headset.

Learned that lesson and how fast I can throw the switch by a very happy screaming (in joy) 5 year old, once during a departure while trying to copy a Bravo clearance for the climb. Click... Bye bye noise.
 
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