First Thoughts: OSH 2016

The aerobatics anymore is really old. I miss the days when manufacturers would demo their planes with aerobatic capability like kitfox, glassair, Starduster etc. and epescially Bob Hoover.
Watching the same planes performing the same tumbles gets old quick and the announcer needs to shut his trap. The worst was when they had the jet man at Oshkosh a few years ago. If you squinted really hard through your binoculars you could maybe see him almost.
They need to get rid of the stupid jet trucks, ford cars racing and whatever else is non aviation related as well.

Eaa should focus on promoting the kit and homebuilt planes during the air shows with flybys and maybe some aerobatics if they are willing. We all know an Extra can do aerobatics but use some of the week to promote the experimental planes. After all it is the experimental aircraft association.
 
II agree Acro. It's not just the manufacturers that are gone. Prior to the airshow their used to be an extended period of demo flybys: new aircraft, homebuilts, vintage, etc... The EAA has gotten away from that (though they haven't got rid of the currently without-a-purpose departure briefers).
 
denverpilot said:
I caught that too. Notice I said "receiver" and not "transceiver". Although a transceiver with the PTT locked out (Yaesu offers this, Icom doesn't. Need latest firmware...) is fine also.
Click to expand...
Most of us who are responsible lock out our PTT. Despite that, the stuck mic issues keep appearing. I was listening to the Friday stuck mic a while and was fairly convinced it was a golf cart driver from the background noise.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
The aerobatics anymore is really old. I miss the days when manufacturers would demo their planes with aerobatic capability like kitfox, glassair, Starduster etc. and epescially Bob Hoover.
Watching the same planes performing the same tumbles gets old quick and the announcer needs to shut his trap. The worst was when they had the jet man at Oshkosh a few years ago. If you squinted really hard through your binoculars you could maybe see him almost.
They need to get rid of the stupid jet trucks, ford cars racing and whatever else is non aviation related as well.

Eaa should focus on promoting the kit and homebuilt planes during the air shows with flybys and maybe some aerobatics if they are willing. We all know an Extra can do aerobatics but use some of the week to promote the experimental planes. After all it is the experimental aircraft association.
Click to expand...
Those "Ford cars racing" pay for a LOT of what you see at Oshkosh, from fuel for performers to the Concerts to the Fly-in Theater in Scholler, among many other things, thanks to One-Eyed Jack, the Wood Family, and a few others.
 
FlyingElvii said:
Those "Ford cars racing" pay for a LOT of what you see at Oshkosh, from fuel for performers to the Concerts to the Fly-in Theater in Scholler, among many other things, thanks to One-Eyed Jack, the Wood Family, and a few others.
Click to expand...

With all due respects, they could take 99 44/100% of the "fuel for performers" and eliminate all the warbird crap, all the "gee, another tail slide to a split-S" airshow performers, and replace it with EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT new designs in fly-by, a whole bunch of the new ultra/semi/sortof ultralights in the pattern, and most of us would be happy as hell to get rid of the *&^%*&^ F-15 at full afterburner in the process. If I want a rock concert, I'll go to one in Sacramento, I don't need to go to one in Oshkosh. I'd MUCH prefer to hear the new guys, the ones that are coming along to replace the Rutans, the Van Gs, the Thorps, the Dykes, and all those folks who got us to where we are, explaining how and why their ideas are working at the Theater. Or the little garage band from Van Dyne that gets $50 for an hour's concert.

Oh, I can hear it now. "We are doing these concerts for the kids, to try and enthuse them to keep coming to Oshkosh." Malarkey. The kids that are coming to Oshkosh to be around airplanes aren't in the same league as the kids that just drag along because they've got nothing better to do at home. And go to one of the concerts. Damned few under-21 in the crowd. Don't give me that tired old story about putting on a show for the crowd. That old dog ain't gonna hunt no more.

This ain't carny. This is Oshkosh and we come for a reason. We don't need all the sideshows to entertain us. Yes, the fireworks shows at night are pretty, and well executed, and I'm willing to pay to see them. But Art Scholl did the same damned thing thirty years ago strapping REAL roman candles to his wood wings and creating one hell of a show and we all thought it was great. It doesn't HAVE to be bigger, better, and more expensive every year. I'd just as soon see a good performer with showmanship as opposed to computer controlled flying human robots who have no real pizzaz other than lots of light and noise.

"O, it offends me to the soul to hear a robustious
periwig-pated fellow tear a passion to tatters, to
very rags, to split the ears of the groundlings, who
for the most part are capable of nothing but
inexplicable dumbshows and noise:"

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
With all due respects, they could take 99 44/100% of the "fuel for performers" and eliminate all the warbird crap, all the "gee, another tail slide to a split-S" airshow performers, and replace it with EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT new designs in fly-by, a whole bunch of the new ultra/semi/sortof ultralights in the pattern, and most of us would be happy as hell to get rid of the *&^%*&^ F-15 at full afterburner in the process. If I want a rock concert, I'll go to one in Sacramento, I don't need to go to one in Oshkosh. I'd MUCH prefer to hear the new guys, the ones that are coming along to replace the Rutans, the Van Gs, the Thorps, the Dykes, and all those folks who got us to where we are, explaining how and why their ideas are working at the Theater. Or the little garage band from Van Dyne that gets $50 for an hour's concert.

Oh, I can hear it now. "We are doing these concerts for the kids, to try and enthuse them to keep coming to Oshkosh." Malarkey. The kids that are coming to Oshkosh to be around airplanes aren't in the same league as the kids that just drag along because they've got nothing better to do at home. And go to one of the concerts. Damned few under-21 in the crowd. Don't give me that tired old story about putting on a show for the crowd. That old dog ain't gonna hunt no more.

This ain't carny. This is Oshkosh and we come for a reason. We don't need all the sideshows to entertain us. Yes, the fireworks shows at night are pretty, and well executed, and I'm willing to pay to see them. But Art Scholl did the same damned thing thirty years ago strapping REAL roman candles to his wood wings and creating one hell of a show and we all thought it was great. It doesn't HAVE to be bigger, better, and more expensive every year. I'd just as soon see a good performer with showmanship as opposed to computer controlled flying human robots who have no real pizzaz other than lots of light and noise.

"O, it offends me to the soul to hear a robustious
periwig-pated fellow tear a passion to tatters, to
very rags, to split the ears of the groundlings, who
for the most part are capable of nothing but
inexplicable dumbshows and noise:"

Jim
Click to expand...
Sorry you feel that way, Jim...
They had such a big success with Dierks Bentley (A Cirrus Pilot) last year that I think they tried to duplicate it with Third Eye Blind.
I didn't even watch it. (The Concert Schedule this year did kinda suck, actually.) The pilot crowd, even the older ones, gave DB a chance because he himself is a pilot, I think, and I know of no one who was disappointed.

And let's face it, there hasn't been a lot of "new" stuff in the last several years, due to economics. A newer Aircraft manufacturer I really wanted to see up close (and consider buying) didn't even make it to the show this year.

The Concerts and movie nights are a good way to keep the wife occupied and interested, since she has become REALLY bored with the "Educator" program. It seems to be exactly the same, every year. And it's a damn sight cheaper than letting her roam the stores while I'm off ogling airplanes.
 
Methinks you guys overestimate the number of new designs out there.

Methinks you also overestimate non-pilots interest in such things.

And part of OSH's appeal is that the spouse and kids can come and have a decent time. Dragging the entire family means needing some "other than airplane stuff" for those folks.

It's never going to go back to being an experimental only show, that's best done at local chapters where the whole family isn't bored to death by the same 20 guys who show up weekly to watch some dumb PowerPoint about a 20 year old design, and who've been building for 10 years and still aren't done with their first airplane.

I'm not picking on builders or experimentals here. I'd love to have the time, energy, and space, to build one. It's very unlikely I ever will.

EAA is catering to a much larger crowd than builders these days. A crowd that was forgotten by AOPA at least a decade ago if not more.

AOPA actually *helped* the bureaucrats put up the airport fences and make the "GA Security" signs in fact, locking most of the public out of being anywhere near airplanes.

Now the public almost HAS to go to events like OSH to see "aviation" things.

If one evening with a popular rock band makes it a little more worth it for them to show up, great. Or a movie. Or whatever.

Yeah we are all a little bored with the modern aerobatic routine, but what would you have them do? We've mentioned that there are "finesse" shows and "Extra" type shows, and it's a mix. Tucker once in a while comes up with something newly insane to attempt at low level but at the price of adding another couple of Gs to his routine.

Nobody's got the skill or the guts to pull off what Hoover did in the Shrike.

So all you've really got that's new is the night stuff, and that can only go so far. Love what some of them have done with their lighting systems, LEDs sure made that easier.

I loved watching Art Scholl. It doesn't take anything away from it for me that the next generation does the same stuff. It's not like there's a whole lot left that someone can do in an airshow box that doesn't project energy toward the crowd, and that's obviously taboo now.

There's been what? Two fatals already this year on the circuit? That doesn't help people's interest level in a country that terrified of its own shadow.

As far as the "Warbird crap" goes, OSH is the ONLY place I've seen some of these types fly in formation. Ever. Never were enough of them left locally to do that. Maybe you remember it, but most of us don't.

And the formations are tiny compared to many years ago, I've heard. The only way to imagine wave after wave of bombers in WWII, etc... And see and feel just a little of what it sounded and felt like. I'm glad they come and fly. I hate museum airplanes a little bit. Dead airplanes. Never see them fly again.

I've said I'm a LITTLE burnt out on the Extra flights, but you sound WAY burnt out on the whole thing Jim.

Not sure what you're hoping to see instead, but remember anyone who hasn't seen OSH usually stands dumbfounded looking skyward... Especially their first year. Stuff flies over all day and they've never seen that many aircraft and types fly in a day event anywhere ... ever.

That's a lot neater than you're giving it credit for, because you've seen it a bunch of times. It really is unique.

New designs... Ha... That info spreads like wildfire on the Net nowadays. If there were hoardes of new designers begging to fly their stuff to have it seen, we'd know it.

For a few years there, there were hoardes of new LSAs -- the first opportunity for a small company to even play in certified aviation and maybe have a market of middle class buyers in decades.

But the limits of LSA are apparent and many of the designs look nearly identical. Not all.

And let's get real on homebuilts. The fancy new designs the Rutan's did, even they're worried about the liability of people building them. Most home builders need simplicity and ruggedness.

And while the Long EZ is a gorgeous efficient beautiful flying machine, most folks are going to start with something they think they can manage, whether wood/fabric or metalwork.

The vast majority of folks don't tackle laying up glass as their first build.

Heck the kits are the key now. Remember you have one or maybe two generations that haven't seen a shop class nor grew up fixing anything instead of throwing it away instead ... They don't even know how to assemble something. Let alone build it from plans.

You think they'll build an airplane?

You have to make that bulletproof and remove the tough metalwork or that's DOA.

Most younger guys and gals barely own a screwdriver, let alone have a shop in the garage. And the best tools they own they got at Harbor Freight. And they have no reason to. Their car doesn't break down, and if it needs brakes, they grab the $99 coupon and head to the chain shop. Everything else in the house is throwaway. They don't break out the table saw and make new shelves or a bunk bed when kid number two comes along.

I have a friend who's a bicycle fanatic. He has a shop. And tools. And he holds a neighborhood annual thing at his house for all the neighborhood kids and parents to come over and have their bikes checked out for safety and rideability because the families have NO idea how to maintain a bicycle. He replaces and tightens chains, brakes, worn out stuff, pedals, whatever to help the kids out on his own dime, to save them from having to go to some "bike shop" that sells $2000 road bikes and charges $100/hr to work on bikes. He has a ball. But we've talked about how sad it is that his driveway is full of kids and adults hoping to learn how to even replace a pedal.

An awful lot of the building skills required were simply learned via maintenance back in the day. Vehicle maintenance, furniture maintenance, building a shed, plumbing, whatever. Folks just don't do much of that anymore. Sad, but true.
 
I agree with Jim...and Nate. Both are right.

Jim, you need to go to Blakesburg, and the AAA flyin, to experience the purist experience you desire. It's members only, held at an isolated, hard to find airport, with no corporate sponsors.

It's a lovely, week-long event, sort of the anti-Oshkosh, made up of nothing but airplanes and pilots. It's coming up over Labor Day weekend, and I urge you to join and attend.

As for Oshkosh, it's become Everyman's Aviation Fair, with all sorts of weird, awful, and wonderful aspects. I regret that certain vital aspects of EAA have been pushed off of show center by Big Money (like the Innovators Tent, and homebuilding itself), and none of our Trailer Trash gang even bothered to attend the last two years concerts, but there's still no better place in the world for pilots and their families than Oshkosh, WI.

Like lemmings to the sea, we shall return every year... :)
 
weirdjim said:
... and most of us would be happy as hell to get rid of the *&^%*&^ F-15 at full afterburner in the process.
Click to expand...

Sorry Jim, the rules say I have to take off in full afterburner. But, I only did that one time during the show (Thursday morning). Maybe you are thinking about the *&^%*&^F-18 in full burner? They had the demo this year.

I have to say I didn't meet one single person that shared your opinion about the Eagle, but I only met a couple of thousand people that week. Certainly missed a few. Sorry you feel that way.
 
EvilEagle said:
Sorry Jim, the rules say I have to take off in full afterburner. But, I only did that one time during the show (Thursday morning). Maybe you are thinking about the *&^%*&^F-18 in full burner? They had the demo this year.

I have to say I didn't meet one single person that shared your opinion about the Eagle, but I only met a couple of thousand people that week. Certainly missed a few. Sorry you feel that way.
Click to expand...
Sorry, Evil, yes of course I meant the '18. And it wasn't his fault. He was TOLD what to do by the powers that be. It is the powers that I'm bitching about.

JIm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top