First real siting of a drone - scary near miss

Stephen Shore

Stephen Shore

Pre-takeoff checklist
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sshore
Flew out of West Houston KIWS airport yesterday on an IFR flight plan back up to my home airport of Gladewater 07F. I was given the Lufkin 2 SID which takes you over the Hooks airport and near Lake Conroe. I was at 2,000' when my wife suddenly exclaimed "DRONE"! and sure enough coming up on my 11 oclock position was the unmistakable outline of a drone.

We passed by it very quickly off of my left wing about 50 feet away and maybe 25-50 feet higher than our altitude. It was unmistakable in appearance - bright orange body with a large camera hanging from the bottom of it.

url

https://i2.wp.com/trade996.com/wp-c...ller.jpg_640x640.jpg?zoom=2&fit=640,640&ssl=1


Definitely a little unnerving.

I of course reported it to Houston ATC but I have no idea if anything came from it.

To anyone who has not seen one of these up close and personal while in flight, I assure you it will rattle you a little bit.
 
I hope that thing gets caught in someone's prop wash and ends up totaled.
 
I had a new roof installed on my house. The roofing company sent a professional drone pilot out to overfly my house inspecting the roof after the job.

He had a license from the FAA and his drone was registered. He told me that he was allowed to fly 700' AGL - and that "AGL" meant over the ground OR any structure built on the ground.

I have no idea if that is correct, but he was very professional.

And after watching him it made me want a drone. Looked like alot of fun.
 
danhagan said:
I hope that thing gets caught in someone's prop wash and ends up totaled.
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I would prefer that someone stick it somewhere in the operator’s anatomy that will be difficult to retrieve through non-surgical means.
 
I have come close enough to weather balloons to see what the box looks like. One of those in the windshield would make a great day go bad very quickly.

Also seen Mylar balloons close enough to read who was being wished something.
 
Note: Part 107 (does not apply to "hobby" SUA)

107.51 Operating limitations for small unmanned aircraft.
A remote pilot in command and the person manipulating the flight controls of the small unmanned aircraft system must comply with all of the following operating limitations when operating a small unmanned aircraft system:

(a) The groundspeed of the small unmanned aircraft may not exceed 87 knots (100 miles per hour).

(b) The altitude of the small unmanned aircraft cannot be higher than 400 feet above ground level, unless the small unmanned aircraft:

(1) Is flown within a 400-foot radius of a structure; and

(2) Does not fly higher than 400 feet above the structure's immediate uppermost limit.
 
I had a drone encounter at my home drome. A bunch of guys were having a BBQ at a hanger and I came back from an hour long training flight. Announced on the radio, nobody else in the pattern - but also nobody listening on the ground. As I turn final and come over the trees, I remember thinking that is a Weird Looking Bird and duck the plane down 20-30 feet to go under. At only 50-100 AGL I passed under the drone and made a safe landing, but it was close. I have some GoPro footage that is not so great but you can make out the drone (oil film slowly covers the lens during the flight and makes it grainy - strapped to the landing gear leg).

I knew who it was as he is the only drone owner at the airport and he was there. I politely, but firmly told him that he almost killed me and he agreed that flying the drone at the airport was not a good idea and will not do it again. Club president called a day later to see if there were any issues, which was nice.

So it can certainly happen, only a matter of time. I wish that it was just plain illegal to fly them within a mile of an airport, private or public. That way they will be out of any pattern airspace.

As a note, I do remember Trent Palmer quoting some rule about being allowed to be 400' above any structure. So not exactly AGL, but in a crowded area like a city, no airplanes should be 500' from the tops of buildings anyway.
 
AOPA has a good page on best practices for drones near airports....

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraf...actices-for-flying-your-drone-near-an-airport

The restrictions/required notifications to airports depend on whether you're flying part 101 (hobbyist) or part 107 (certified), and of course what class of airspace the airport is in. At all times drones must give way to full-sized traffic, and must be in eyesight (un-assisted by binoculars or other) of the remote pilot....not to say they always are....and thus lies part of the problem.

Jim
 
I fly in that area alot as I am based at KCXO (Conroe), so this hits pretty close to home. Thanks for the heads up. Usually when I am just boring holes in the sky VFR I am at 2500 ft around there since the bravo shelf starts at 4000 ft. But if someone takes a drone to 2000 ft, 2500 ft would be no problem for them. I have noticed Houston Approach likes to keep us around 2000 ft when IFR around those parts. Sadly, I think its going to take an accident before consequences are handed out to those who fly in controlled airspace with out proper authorization.
 
i want to mount a shotgun on my wing and shoot the drone A$$ down
 
^^^^ Actually, the X-Star is getting a bit long in the tooth. I've had mine for over 2 years.....(flame suit on) :)
 
Matthew Rogers said:
...I remember thinking that is a Weird Looking Bird and duck the plane down 20-30 feet to go under.
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My training was that when birds are frightened they descend, so leveling or climbing is the avoidance technique. Do I have that backwards? Or, more appropriately upside down?
 
Kenny Phillips said:
A one-kilogram projectile going 100 knots will certainly leave a mark, as they say.
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Leaving a mark, sure. No doubt. Killed? Well I'm not going to say its impossible for a <10lb plastic toy to bring a 100kt airplane down catastrophically, but it'd have to be a heck of a lucky shot to do it.
Drones have someone on the ground controlling them. True those people don't always know exactly what they're doing and aren't always interested in right from wrong, but they do have a person with a conscience controlling them. Geese? Geese fly over runways all the time. Ain't much a brain and sure ain't no conscience there and I don't hear anyone getting their panties a bunch over them. I'd much rather take a drone to the wing on final than a goose.
 
Jim Rosenow said:
^^^^ Actually, the X-Star is getting a bit long in the tooth. I've had mine for over 2 years.....(flame suit on) :)
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He said orange drone. It’s by far the most popular orange one.

I’ve got a Phantom 4 Pro... not anti drone
 
For the guys having a BBQ at the airport you’d think they’d at least know a thing or two about the traffic pattern and be able to keep their drone out of it. There are skydivers at my airport and no conflicts, they stay on the opposite side of the runway. I’ve seen people flying RC planes there, same thing - stay on the west side away from the pattern where the real airplanes fly.
 
ktup-flyer said:
I’ve got a Phantom 4 Pro... not anti drone
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I don't have a drone and I am not anti drone.

Most of my near collisions in the air have been with military helicopters. Just hearing that a military helicopter is in the area makes me afraid, especially if it is a CH-47.
 
Silvaire said:
For the guys having a BBQ at the airport you’d think they’d at least know a thing or two about the traffic pattern and be able to keep their drone out of it. There are skydivers at my airport and no conflicts, they stay on the opposite side of the runway. I’ve seen people flying RC planes there, same thing - stay on the west side away from the pattern where the real airplanes fly.
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i have issues with people playing wannabe pilots with a RC Plane on a runway and close vicinity of runway... there are streets and other places to do it. runway and the airport is for real pilots.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
A one-kilogram projectile going 100 knots will certainly leave a mark, as they say.
Click to expand...
Yep - think of a Nolan Ryan fastball, only it weighs a couple pounds. . .it's coming through a GA windscreen, and your forehead, likely stopping in one of those sinus cavities.

A hawk, about that weight, took out our club 172 windscreen. Took full power to maintain level flight, with that giant air scoop open to the relative wind.

Don't blame the hawk - pea sized brain and all. . .perhaps a genetic cousin to the moron flying a toy on final to a runway. One mile sounds like a good compromise, maybe a $15K fine for first offense, to give it some teeth.
 
WannFly said:
i have issues with people playing wannabe pilots with a RC Plane on a runway and close vicinity of runway... there are streets and other places to do it. runway and the airport is for real pilots.
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Flying an rc plane is in many ways more challenging than flying the real thing. I enjoy doing both.
 
Maybe it's a good thing. Where's the guy that said pilots are never scanning for traffic?
 
ktup-flyer said:
Probably one of these https://www.autelrobotics.com/x-sta...fpVp4MsA7xrHgARo8VgLDDpB2_FxDURRoCDBwQAvD_BwE
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Definitely could have been that one. It was orange for sure - very easy to ID which I guess is why it is orange - easy for the operator / pilot to see from the ground too.

As far as the "400" foot AGL requirement - I definitely could be wrong when I said I was told "700" by the drone pilot at my house.

I "get" the drone and RC airplane enthusiasm. I am not anti-drone or RC airplane. I am lucky to be able to afford a "real" airplane and I have no doubt that if I did not have the ability to own an airplane that I would have a drone or RC airplane. As a matter of fact, I want one anyway! But it needs to be done safely and in the proper airspace - NOT 2,000' MSL in a busy Class Bravo airspace.

And yes, it is typical for Houston ATC to route IFR GA traffic at that altitude through this route. I always get the Lufkin 2 departure out of West Houston when flying north. 100%. So if I always get it then I am sure that everyone else does too.
 
Stephen Shore said:
in the proper airspace - NOT 2,000' MSL in a busy Class Bravo airspace.
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Problem solved:
107.41 Operation in certain airspace.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from Air Traffic Control (ATC).
 
Sundancer said:
Yep - think of a Nolan Ryan fastball, only it weighs a couple pounds. . .it's coming through a GA windscreen, and your forehead, likely stopping in one of those sinus cavities.

A hawk, about that weight, took out our club 172 windscreen. Took full power to maintain level flight, with that giant air scoop open to the relative wind.
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My condolences to the friends and families of those who lost their lives in this tragic event.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Flying an rc plane is in many ways more challenging than flying the real thing. I enjoy doing both.
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That’s fair and I have no problems with people flying RC or drone.... just not on or around runway
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Killed? Really?
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Do you not believe a drone could cause a fatal accident? Birds have caused plenty of fatalities over the last century of aviation. I don't understand why some people refuse to see the danger.

Even if a collision is non-fatal, it could cause substantial damage to an aircraft. Is the drone operator insured for such events? Or am I as the aircraft owner/operator just supposed to suck it up and pay for the repairs.

I have my UAS license, and do operate a drone on the side. However I am fully aware of my surroundings, and the impact I can have on manned aircraft. There is a lot of liability involved with flying a drone that a lot of hobbyists just don't understand.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Do you not believe a drone could cause a fatal accident? Birds have caused plenty of fatalities over the last century of aviation. I don't understand why some people refuse to see the danger.
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I don't use the word danger in this context. Risk is a better word for the context at hand. I absolutely see the risk. You are correct that birds can and have caused fatal accidents. But the vast majority of bird strikes are not fatal. The difference in the numbers of the two is not even close.

I believe the level of risk in terms of an incident being fatal is about the same with typical consumer drones. Damage? Sure. But addressing the guilty by informing them as the poster I was quoting did by saying "I politely, but firmly told him that he almost killed me" is being a bit over dramatic IMHO.

A well placed golf ball to the head can be fatal, but if wayward ball were to come your way and you then tracked down the source and politely but firmly informed them that they had nearly killed you, no one would blame said source for laughing hardily in your face. Obviously drones vs aircraft are a bit more serious of a matter than that, but risk of a fatality as a result of a collision is not entirely different. I don't want to hit birds when I'm flying. But I have. And somehow I miraculously lived to play another day. That's just the way I see it. If you disagree, you disagree.
 
Stephen Shore said:
I "get" the drone and RC airplane enthusiasm. I am not anti-drone or RC airplane. I am lucky to be able to afford a "real" airplane and I have no doubt that if I did not have the ability to own an airplane that I would have a drone or RC airplane. As a matter of fact, I want one anyway! But it needs to be done safely and in the proper airspace - NOT 2,000' MSL in a busy Class Bravo airspace.
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Part 107 operators are supposed to know better than to operate above 400 AGL or in a manner to interfere with manned aircraft. Part 101 operators cannot operate within 5 miles of an airport without notifying that facility, although I'm not sure how that information gets transmitted to transient pilots. (This provision is really only useful to educate the operator and identify them later should an incident occur.) But even then, ops are still limited to 400 AGL with the provision to avoid manned aircraft ops. The problem is that some irresponsible operators are flouting air safety regulations designed to keep the airspace safe, figuring that enforcement will be difficult. I think Part 107 operators are not likely the problem. It's the Part 101 operators I worry about--they likely don't know anything about airspace or aircraft operations, so have little knowledge of where manned aircraft are likely to be.

The Part 107 operators in our area have been very good, going the extra mile to notify the airport of their operations and staying clear of manned traffic, which includes everything from gliders and Champs to G4 turbines. They have been great to work with, and are in some cases doing interesting nonprofit work and research.

FYI, anything the size of a goose can disable an aircraft and cause significant damage. At flight speeds, these items will easily go through a windscreen causing a serious in-flight emergency. We are experiencing geese issues at our airport, and unfortunately our state legislature may have inadvertently taken away the most effective options for airports to effect remediation.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I don't use the word danger in this context. Risk is a better word for the context at hand. I absolutely see the risk. You are correct that birds can and have caused fatal accidents. But the vast majority of bird strikes are not fatal. The difference in the numbers of the two is not even close.

I believe the level of risk in terms of an incident being fatal is about the same with typical consumer drones. Damage? Sure. But addressing the guilty by informing them as the poster I was quoting did by saying "I politely, but firmly told him that he almost killed me" is being a bit over dramatic IMHO.

A well placed golf ball to the head can be fatal, but if wayward ball were to come your way and you then tracked down the source and politely but firmly informed them that they had nearly killed you, no one would blame said source for laughing hardily in your face. Obviously drones vs aircraft are a bit more serious of a matter than that, but risk of a fatality as a result of a collision is not entirely different. I don't want to hit birds when I'm flying. But I have. And somehow I miraculously lived to play another day. That's just the way I see it. If you disagree, you disagree.
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The bird or drone doesn't need to hit the pilot for the aircraft to go down. Many small planes would be nearly unflyable with a missing windscreen. And a pilot may have difficulty seeing after a hit in the face.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Many small planes would be nearly unflyable with a missing windscreen
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I would believe planes as small and smaller than a 172 might have problems holding altitude due to less horse power, and possibly pilot experience.

One company I worked for had a windshield depart the plane climbing through 10,000 MSL. Fortunately it was the co-pilot side of the plane, a pressurized C-414. This was on a medical flight with 2 medics, one patient and one family member. The glare shield departed as well as all loose papers, and his headset was yanked off his head. He turned around and landed at the departure airport.

The pilot and crew, along with the patient and family member all got on another plane and completed the trip.

It was undetermined as to why the windshield departed. It broke out leaving about an inch of glass around the edge. Fatigue was the best SWAG.
 
Local drone club wanted to photo a smoke stack about 1.4 miles off end of the runway...couldn't find airport manager to try to get permission to do so, so they left a note on the office window that they were going to do it. And they did....how could incoming planes know of this? Then they had the photo they took published in the local paper. What a sense of responsibility !!
 
Kenny Phillips said:
The bird or drone doesn't need to hit the pilot for the aircraft to go down. Many small planes would be nearly unflyable with a missing windscreen. And a pilot may have difficulty seeing after a hit in the face.
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Nothing in what I wrote disagrees with nor disregards that. Agree with all of it completely. But I also know from experience that taking a bird directly to the windscreen does not automatically lead to a broken or missing windscreen. In addition, I know of at least one youtube cockpit video of a pilot taking a bird to the windscreen a few miles from the airport, losing the windscreen in the process and still flying the approach and landing normally albeit with damage to the plane and pilot and have seen internet pics of other aircraft which were also landed safely after such events. Which means even losing the windscreen and being hit by the object does not automatically spell instant death.

And let me be clear. That is all I'm saying here. I'm not saying the risk is zero because it clearly isn't zero. An incident between a small drone and a small aircraft could potentially be fatal. But just because something is possible does not mean that something is likely. There are tons of things that you have no control over which are just as likely to be fatal for you when it comes to aircraft and I don't see anyone wishing for bazillion dollar fines or inanimate objects to be inserted into anyone's rectum because of it. I completely get the risk. In my humble opinion the amount of vitriol displayed by many on the subject is not proportionate to the actual risk involved. My opinion only.

Drones are an issue and the fact that they can sometimes be operated by irresponsible individuals is disturbing and probably needs to be looked at in terms of solutions. But to be honest I'm probably more disturbed by some of the ultralight pilots I've encountered in traffic patterns that seem to like to do their own thing and act as though they have never read a FAR nor the AIM in their life. Tangling with a 500lb ultralight is far more likely to be fatal than a 5lb plastic toy and again, I don't see anyone losing their s**t over them.
 
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JohnWF said:
Local drone club wanted to photo a smoke stack about 1.4 miles off end of the runway...couldn't find airport manager to try to get permission to do so, so they left a note on the office window that they were going to do it. And they did....how could incoming planes know of this? Then they had the photo they took published in the local paper. What a sense of responsibility !!
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i have a better one.... i have seen a airport manager flying a RC plane, on short final , with his handheld safely tucked away in his truck....
 
JohnWF said:
Local drone club wanted to photo a smoke stack about 1.4 miles off end of the runway...couldn't find airport manager to try to get permission to do so, so they left a note on the office window that they were going to do it. And they did....how could incoming planes know of this? Then they had the photo they took published in the local paper. What a sense of responsibility !!
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If they were Part 107, in Class G airspace, perfectly legal. And not necessarily irresponsible. Drone pilots are able to see and avoid, too.

Side note: If it was a hobby flight, no permission required either. Only notification.
 
Ravioli said:
My training was that when birds are frightened they descend, so leveling or climbing is the avoidance technique. Do I have that backwards? Or, more appropriately upside down?
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We have large turkey vultures in Texas ... they dive if they've seen you. I've always avoided by climbing ... only failed once when they turkey vulture was a above me and began its dive in front of me, we didn't collide though.
 
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