First hood time at night

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
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Priyo
last week had the first hood time at night. it was a overcast sky and we went out at the far end of TRSA, no towns in the vicinity and it was pitch dark. experience was real eye opener.. couldnt see anything with my peripheral vision and had a real hard time flying just by instruments. i have about 4 hrs of hood time include .6 in my check ride and my DPE's comment was "you are great under the hood".. butttttt.... this foggles at night under a dark sky and no ground lights totally threw me off. first 20 mins or so i kept fighting with myself. little bank to the left ( i found myself banking to the left more often than not in straight and level) and i would try to correct it to find myself banked to the right and then i will try to correct that and the saga continues. after a while CFI finally said, why dont yuu hold the yoke with 2 fingers, give the poor plane a chance to fly and see what its doing. that helped, a lot.

did 1.6 and got totally drained and exhausted and at times completely disoriented. i have new found respect for everyone who said flying with foggles on a clear VFR day will not get u proficient enough to fly through hard IMC.... and i am even more exited to nail this and i will try not to ever gen into real IMC without IR rating. from what i hear, real IMC is even more disorienting when u are between layers and that really messes with your head by giving u a false horizon.

great experience, will do it again, in fact over and over :p
 
Do you have rudder trim?
 
WannFly said:
I do, never use it though... may be time to change that now


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Yes. Learn to trim out all control forces by using elevator and rudder trim. The taper wing will fly quite nicely on its own when trimmed.

The rudder trim is easiest to set by stepping on the ball to center it then twisting to relieve rudder pressure. Once you experiment with it a few times it's pretty much second nature. The Century Autopilot manual probably has a paragraph or two about rudder trim. They talk about using the visible horizon to level the wings and trim out forces with the rudder trim. That method works too. A Century Autopilot will not fly with one wing high when it is properly trimmed.
 
Did most of my training at night. Not near as many accidental peripheral peaks
 
Yeah in my exp using foggles in the day is kinda pointless. Nothing like actual. It was eye opening my first time in actual when I got the leans and had to fight what my body was telling me.
 
Or put on a Francis hood in the daytime... you won't be peeking/cheating then... but they're quite annoying in that you're looking down a tunnel at everything.

Night with no ground lights and no moon is still better, though... because even with a Francis hood, you can see shadows from the sun and the window pillar or other airplane parts, moving across your lap.
 
I'm curious, has anyone thought instrument flying would be easy and it actually was? Or do the people that thought it would be easy always get surprised? I wonder this because in my pp training I had to force myself to look outside. Early on my cfi was constantly telling me to look outside, scan for traffic, look at the horizon. Do they teach like this for job security? So that you will come back later to get your IR?

Serious questions. I've never been uncomfortable under the hood. Most hood time was day but he did put me under it during our night cross country. He had to tell me to make smaller banks while under the hood. I made 20 or 30 degree banks while turning because it felt natural. He said that's a bad idea when instrument flying.

I do, however, understand you can get into a dangerous attitude if not paying attention. I was looking at the sectional once and when I looked up I was in a banking dive. That was eye opening. I didn't notice any different feeling physically. When using the instruments that doesn't happen to me and I feel I could fly all day like that.

Now when I look away, I turn the wing leveler on.
 
2Airtime2 said:
I'm curious, has anyone thought instrument flying would be easy and it actually was? Or do the people that thought it would be easy always get surprised? I wonder this because in my pp training I had to force myself to look outside. Early on my cfi was constantly telling me to look outside, scan for traffic, look at the horizon. Do they teach like this for job security? So that you will come back later to get your IR?

Serious questions. I've never been uncomfortable under the hood. Most hood time was day but he did put me under it during our night cross country. He had to tell me to make smaller banks while under the hood. I made 20 or 30 degree banks while turning because it felt natural. He said that's a bad idea when instrument flying.

I do, however, understand you can get into a dangerous attitude if not paying attention. I was looking at the sectional once and when I looked up I was in a banking dive. That was eye opening. I didn't notice any different feeling physically. When using the instruments that doesn't happen to me and I feel I could fly all day like that.

Now when I look away, I turn the wing leveler on.
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When everything is working and the pilot isn’t busy with other tasks, controlling the plane by reference to instruments is not particularly difficult. Get busy navigating or throw in equipment failures and life gets a little bit tougher. Many folks consider the instrument checkride one of the tougher tests.

The question about the instructor requiring you to look out the window is rather bothersome. One of the pilots’s jobs is seeing and avoiding traffic. That isn’t a sometime thing. That’s an all the time thing. When VMC the eyes should always be scanning the sky with brief glances at instruments. If you are head down for a minute the aircraft is flying in parts of the sky you haven’t cleared. Think about that one for a bit and get yer eyes back outside.
 
2Airtime2 said:
Early on my cfi was constantly telling me to look outside, scan for traffic, look at the horizon. Do they teach like this for job security? So that you will come back later to get your IR?
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No. We do it because it’s not an IR. :)

VFR flying is visual. And kinetic. And heard. And maybe even smelled. (That engine smells hot... hmmm...) But it’s not looking at the panel for much time at all.

In fact, many instructors will have students land the airplane with ALL instruments covered at least once during their Private training.

Additionally, many will have a student do a portion or all of an XC without electronic Navaids. You’ve got a watch, a compass, and a paper chart... can you put us within sight of an airport a few hundred miles from here without the GPS or a VOR? Technically you should be able to.

2Airtime2 said:
I do, however, understand you can get into a dangerous attitude if not paying attention. I was looking at the sectional once and when I looked up I was in a banking dive. That was eye opening. I didn't notice any different feeling physically. When using the instruments that doesn't happen to me and I feel I could fly all day like that.
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You didn’t feel the bank because it was a constant G maneuver, but could you hear the airspeed increasing? :) Feel the airplane. Hear the airplane. Become one with the airplane. :) Zen and the art of paying attention with all of your senses when flying.

Can you set cruise power without looking at the engine instruments within a couple hundred RPM? Same with descent power and flying a reasonable approach speed? Listen. Looking is backup info.

Have you had the opposite experience yet? No ground reference and your body telling you the aircraft is in a bank or dive continuously when the instruments say otherwise? (Commonly known as “the leans” because you’ll usually start leaning tower the passenger or into the door to counteract the feeling that the airplane is in a bank.)

That one will be interesting for you when it happens for the first time. And it will, if you continue and spend enough time under the hood or in actual.

We have methods and ways to induce it in most people, too. You can ask your instructor to do so if you’re interested. But it’s the surprise one, that’s the real experience builder.



2Airtime2 said:
Now when I look away, I turn the wing leveler on.
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Many aircraft don’t have them. Heck most aircraft you’ll likely fly won’t.

But the Private is the Private and it’s VMC, and the IR is the IR and it’s artificially view limited or IMC. Two different things.
 
Clark1961 said:
The question about the instructor requiring you to look out the window is rather bothersome. One of the pilots’s jobs is seeing and avoiding traffic. That isn’t a sometime thing. That’s an all the time thing. When VMC the eyes should always be scanning the sky with brief glances at instruments. If you are head down for a minute the aircraft is flying in parts of the sky you haven’t cleared. Think about that one for a bit and get yer eyes back outside.
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Windows are for sightseeing. iOS is for spotting traffic on the fish finder. No need to see and avoid, just get both FF's (Foreflight and Flight Following) and bumble along your merry way.
 
I've never used foggles. It sounds like they are not very good at view limiting. For me the difference between hood flying and actual was not that big a deal. I found actual easier in a lot of ways than hood time. Maybe I just concentrated more.
 
I did most of my IR training at night, makes a huge difference. Still not as real as IMC. The first time in hard in IMC you really feel it, like stepping off the side of mountain and trusting your rope.
 
2Airtime2 said:
I'm curious, has anyone thought instrument flying would be easy and it actually was? Or do the people that thought it would be easy always get surprised? I wonder this because in my pp training I had to force myself to look outside. Early on my cfi was constantly telling me to look outside, scan for traffic, look at the horizon. Do they teach like this for job security? So that you will come back later to get your IR?

Serious questions. I've never been uncomfortable under the hood. Most hood time was day but he did put me under it during our night cross country. He had to tell me to make smaller banks while under the hood. I made 20 or 30 degree banks while turning because it felt natural. He said that's a bad idea when instrument flying.

I do, however, understand you can get into a dangerous attitude if not paying attention. I was looking at the sectional once and when I looked up I was in a banking dive. That was eye opening. I didn't notice any different feeling physically. When using the instruments that doesn't happen to me and I feel I could fly all day like that.

Now when I look away, I turn the wing leveler on.
Click to expand...
Were you a long time flight sim guy before taking lessons?
 
2Airtime2 said:
I'm curious, has anyone thought instrument flying would be easy and it actually was? Or do the people that thought it would be easy always get surprised?
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I didn't have any expectations other than being told it's very hard. However, my CFI did tell me during the 3hrs hood required for the private that I would probably be pretty good at IFR. While I wouldn't go so far to say that it was easy, I thought getting my instrument rating was less difficult than the private.
 
Did most of my IFR training at night and under the foggles. I hate foggles...I would much rather be in hard IMC. About 6 hours of my IFR training was hard IMC and it was awesome. Nothing like breaking out just above minimums with the runway off your nose.
 
2Airtime2 said:
I'm curious, has anyone thought instrument flying would be easy and it actually was? Or do the people that thought it would be easy always get surprised? I wonder this because in my pp training I had to force myself to look outside. Early on my cfi was constantly telling me to look outside, scan for traffic, look at the horizon. Do they teach like this for job security? So that you will come back later to get your IR?

Serious questions. I've never been uncomfortable under the hood. Most hood time was day but he did put me under it during our night cross country. He had to tell me to make smaller banks while under the hood. I made 20 or 30 degree banks while turning because it felt natural. He said that's a bad idea when instrument flying.

I do, however, understand you can get into a dangerous attitude if not paying attention. I was looking at the sectional once and when I looked up I was in a banking dive. That was eye opening. I didn't notice any different feeling physically. When using the instruments that doesn't happen to me and I feel I could fly all day like that.

Now when I look away, I turn the wing leveler on.
Click to expand...
I found instrument easier than private. I flew a lot of cross country VFR. About the 4th time were were stuck overnight the wife said you need an instrument rating. So I was very comfortable in a plane so I could concentrate on IFR procedures. So Private in 60 some and IR at 40.5
 
denverpilot said:
Or put on a Francis hood in the daytime... you won't be peeking/cheating then... but they're quite annoying in that you're looking down a tunnel at everything.

Night with no ground lights and no moon is still better, though... because even with a Francis hood, you can see shadows from the sun and the window pillar or other airplane parts, moving across your lap.
Click to expand...

Very bright shopping mall lights up the inside at the FAF at FNL. Joke is you can smell Greeley's
 
Thanks for the responses. I think I may be one of y'all that the IR comes easier than the ppl...we'll see. I'm just at 140 hrs now and enjoying flying freedom (more than 25 miles) but will start IR training one day.

No simulator time.

I look outside all the time, seems natural now, not at first for some reason.

No plans to fly other planes. It's mine and a 3 axis ap would be nice but the wing leveler works damn good and properly trimmed I can fly a good way before having to correct the course.

Yes, I can adjust rpm's by sound and I can feel/sense speed changes in descents and climbs. I've got over 100 hrs in my plane.
 
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Ravioli said:
Windows are for sightseeing. iOS is for spotting traffic on the fish finder. No need to see and avoid, just get both FF's (Foreflight and Flight Following) and bumble along your merry way.
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Requested Traffic Advisories today rather than flight following. Subtle but substantial.
 
How do you define the difference?

I request Flight Following for A to B.
I request Advisories when just going out to maneuver and then return to base.
 
Ravioli said:
How do you define the difference?

I request Flight Following for A to B.
I request Advisories when just going out to maneuver and then return to base.
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Was that question for me? or perhaps you were just asking the vast ether?
 
It appeared to be a direct inquiry in regard to a statement in the immediately preceding post.

But to be clear: Yes, that was a question to the person with username @Clark1961 regarding post #20 in the thread "First hood time at night" in the forum "Pilot Training" on Pilots of America.
 
Like Eric and labbadabbadoo, I mostly had time to do ifr training at night as I worked during the day and it was winter.
There are a few instances where I think it has helped me, maybe even saved my bacon. Even today, taking off in pitch black with no ground lights or stars.
 
Ravioli said:
How do you define the difference?

I request Flight Following for A to B.
I request Advisories when just going out to maneuver and then return to base.
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You request advisories all the time.

“Flight Following” as an FAA product no longer exists.

:)

Somebody somewhere decided that “following” gave the impression someone would ALWAYS notice if you just disappeared off of the edge of a scope or descended out of radar coverage and SAR would be called and all that. Or that controllers were always paying attention to VFRs getting advisories even when there was no traffic in their way for 200 miles.

Nether of which was ever really true. So they changed the terminology to more accurately reflect what you’re getting as a service. Advisories. If you disappear there’s no guarantee the cavalry is coming. But usually they’d notice.

The cavalry coming service is triggered by flight plans. Not “Flight Following”. Thus, now it’s all called “Advisories”.

Flight Following doesn’t exist. :)
 
Ravioli said:
It appeared to be a direct inquiry in regard to a statement in the immediately preceding post.

But to be clear: Yes, that was a question to the person with username @Clark1961 regarding post #20 in the thread "First hood time at night" in the forum "Pilot Training" on Pilots of America.
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LOL. Sure, whatever. You could have quoted and made it clear. Instead you posted a question which was vague and without reference. You follow that with an uptight post saying folks should just know what you are thinking and never question you. Have a real nice day and enjoy your pasta.
 
Not sure I understand @Clark1961 issue this time. The question was close enough that you thought it may have been for you. I clarified so as to remove any possible ambiguity. You comment on the clarification .

Would you mind answering the question?
 
denverpilot said:
You request advisories all the time.

“Flight Following” as an FAA product no longer exists.

:)

Somebody somewhere decided that “following” gave the impression someone would ALWAYS notice if you just disappeared off of the edge of a scope or descended out of radar coverage and SAR would be called and all that. Or that controllers were always paying attention to VFRs getting advisories even when there was no traffic in their way for 200 miles.

Nether of which was ever really true. So they changed the terminology to more accurately reflect what you’re getting as a service. Advisories. If you disappear there’s no guarantee the cavalry is coming. But usually they’d notice.

The cavalry coming service is triggered by flight plans. Not “Flight Following”. Thus, now it’s all called “Advisories”.

Flight Following doesn’t exist. :)
Click to expand...

I have not yet ever heard anyone ask for "advisories". Most of the time I never say flight following they just know what I want:)
 
1RTK1 said:
I have not yet ever heard anyone ask for "advisories". Most of the time I never say flight following they just know what I want:)
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Mostly because people can’t be bothered to learn to ask for advisories. LOL. Catch-22. :)
 
Is this something new? My instructors never mentioned advisories, always said flight following, either that or I never paid attention
 
1RTK1 said:
Is this something new? My instructors never mentioned advisories, always said flight following, either that or I never paid attention
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Not new, but rarely taught or said. Just one of those weird things.

I caught myself asking for flight following today, in fact. Nobody really cares, in practice.

It’s like the old “BFR”... or when people called them “bi-annual”. :)
 
Even center calls it flying the following. Last flight I got a call from them saying , no radar coverage for next 5 mins, do you still want to be in flight following? I can let u know know when u are back on my screen.


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