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Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
Got the call......

Hey man, can you come take a look. we have a fuel issue.

Short and sweet...... lots of blue residue under the tank on the starboard side on the lower wing exterior surface,, blue seeping up from the inner tank guage Phillips screws/cover.

Similar in the port side except a lot showing on the tank gauge/cover and minimal weeping from the lower tank area joint.

Anyone ever seen this? I failed the internet by not taking photos , I know.

Access cover inspection areas were completely dry.

I'm thinking both gaskets on the tank gauges are leaking. that would explane the seep coming up throught the Phillips screws. if it was the sender's or the lines, I don't see how fuel would go up.very little dripping on the ground if any was noted. plane was wiped down, left over the weekend and the staining returned.

What say the peanut gallery?
 
brien23 said:
Nothing money won't fix.
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Yep. It doesn't matter what a bunch of people say on the internet, even if there were pictures. It's going to have to come apart and when the mechanic determines what is leaking it will get fixed.

It's not the worst thing in the world to have to remove the tanks anyway. That way you can comply with SB1006 while you're in there anyway, if it hasn't been done recently.

The bigger question I've got is, if there was lots of staining, how did you miss it on your preflights?
 
It wasn't like this last time I flew. I noted a moist sump valve on both sides, but nothing even close to what I saw today.

Really baffled as to what happened. doesn't make sense. one side sure......both at the same time?
 
Unit74 said:
It wasn't like this last time I flew. I noted a moist sump valve on both sides, but nothing even close to what I saw today.

Really baffled as to what happened. doesn't make sense. one side sure......both at the same time?
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Did it get colder than it has been lately? Things have a tendency to start leaking in the winter. It's that time.
 
mondtster said:
Did it get colder than it has been lately? Things have a tendency to start leaking in the winter. It's that time.
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Yes. we went from 80s to 40s over night like instantly. then it went back to warm weather.
 
I was gonna say lav juice, the blue stuff, but you probably don't have a lav. :rofl:
 
mscard88 said:
I was gonna say lav juice, the blue stuff, but you probably don't have a lav. :rofl:
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Someone put 100LL in ours one day. Luckily none of the smokers on my crew had gone for a smoke break when the word came out on the ops freq to check the lav. Someone had really upset one of the ramp rats.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Someone put 100LL in ours one day. Luckily none of the smokers on my crew had gone for a smoke break when the word came out on the ops freq to check the lav. Someone had really upset one of the ramp rats.
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OMG! Exploding lav, I can see it now! :D
 
mscard88 said:
OMG! Exploding lav, I can see it now! :D
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Yeah, one of the pleasures of flying 2nd tier freight. The nice flushing lavs from airline service weigh a lot more than a camper crapper. I will say that was the only 121 job I really miss. Payed by the mile and got a bonus for arriving under block. Fun times. Especially if you like to day drink.
 
Is it a sender plate like this? A lot of the Van's guys have had leaks develop around the perimeter of the plate when using the cork gasket. The solution is to forgo the gasket altogether and put a layer of sealant down, stuff that goes by the name of Flame Master (formerly ProSeal). Gooey, nasty, stinky stuff, but all the Van's tanks use it. Don't know the regulations on repair regarding the certified planes, but I swear by this goop. Good luck with the repair...I hate seeing that telltale blue dye.

I used Allen cap screws for the plate, so it can be removed more easily without pulling the tank, and a blob of sealant on each perimeter screw as it's installed to make it leakproof.

 
Another possibility for leaks on the back side of a Cherokee type fuel tank is the "rubber" section of the vent line. I had that failure once. Lots of blue on the bottom of the wing but only if the tank was filled all the way. The "rubber" section slips over the metal tube coming out of the tank top and over the metal tube going through the bottom of the wing
 
Best of luck. I have found a lot of neglected planes in my search. Hence why I decided to complete my A&P to be able to safely maintain my future airplane purchase without going bankrupt!
 
mondtster said:
Did it get colder than it has been lately? Things have a tendency to start leaking in the winter. It's that time.
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Winter seems to bring out the break in anything that was barely OK in normal weather.

Window barely rolls down? It will cease to roll back up in winter.

Battery getting bad, but since your car starts so quickly normally, you don't really notice it... winter will kill it quickly.

Tires getting bad? You will notice that too.

MN has its really great parts, but I tire of some aspects of winter.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Is it a sender plate like this? A lot of the Van's guys have had leaks develop around the perimeter of the plate when using the cork gasket. The solution is to forgo the gasket altogether and put a layer of sealant down, stuff that goes by the name of Flame Master (formerly ProSeal). Gooey, nasty, stinky stuff, but all the Van's tanks use it. Don't know the regulations on repair regarding the certified planes, but I swear by this goop. Good luck with the repair...I hate seeing that telltale blue dye.

I used Allen cap screws for the plate, so it can be removed more easily without pulling the tank, and a blob of sealant on each perimeter screw as it's installed to make it leakproof.

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I really don't know. I've never had the tanks out. I just bought it may of this year.
 
When was the last time the SB1006 was complete? Should be easy to locate in the log books. If it's been a number of years, it'd be worth it just to pull the tanks and complete this service bulletin. Outside of that, on many Piper aircraft, I think it's fairly common for the gasket at the sender unit (on the backside) of the tanks to degrade and leak. When we pulled my tanks on the '77 Lance to do SB1006 we saw this when we put them back together. Not sure about the visual gauge on top...haven't had that yet. I also think that on PA32 aircraft (mine included) the rivet heads can break and fuel will weep out of them. I've noticed this mostly on the inboard tanks, and I suspect that is from repetitive landings with the inboards full(er) as the inboards are typically close to full for short range ops. Either way they are probably gonna have to pull the tanks to solve the problem. Good luck, this isn't a quick process :/
 
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3393RP said:
Your fuel tanks have leaks. You must have them repaired.

Am I close?
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Yup...Cherokee tanks don't last forever. They do need rebuilding eventually. Cost is roughly $1,700 per side plus labor. I had to do my Six.
 
You guys aren't making me feel better. :(
 
Went and tool a look .....leaking gasket on the inboard tank visual fill gauge. leaking sender gasket.

Hasn't pulled the port side yet.
 
Unit74 said:
Went and tool a look .....leaking gasket on the inboard tank visual fill gauge. leaking sender gasket.

Hasn't pulled the port side yet.
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Gaskets. So maybe an amu per side total?
 
Back when we had a Cherokee Pilots Association, there was a big Cherokee fly in every year.

The majority of Cherokee owners of the mid '70s vintage aircraft had either resealed their tanks, or needed to. Those telltale blue stains were on the bottom of many Cherokees.

There was a vendor at the fly-in every year whose entire business was taking your tank, drilling out all the rivets, resealing the tank, and riveting it back together.

(Piper, in its infinite wisdom, apparently did not use a jig when drilling the screw holes for the tanks. As a result, you can't just pop any Cherokee tank into any Cherokee. They must be YOUR tanks.)

That guy got old and sold the business to Hartig, if I'm remembering correctly. You can either put up with the blue stains or send them out. You will have to repaint them, too.
 
Fingers are crossed. I just went back to look and the starboard side will be good. clearly from the gasket on the sender. He has to cut out the hoses though. They are so brittle it was shocking. Hes doing SB1006 whiles hes in there.
 
Unit74 said:
Fingers are crossed. I just went back to look and the starboard side will be good. clearly from the gasket on the sender. He has to cut out the hoses though. They are so brittle it was shocking. Hes doing SB1006 whiles hes in there.
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lol That SB was supposed to be done years ago.
 
Reminds me of a Viet Nam era cartoon - Two Viet Cong soldiers looking at an exotic captured US fighter jet and a thick service manual. "Uncle Ho's Air Force" crudely painted on the side.

"$1500 bucks for a lousy gasket - no wonder we won the war.........!
 
George Mohr said:
SB 1006 is recurring every 7 years, just FYI.

-G
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An optional reoccurring inspection.

BTW.... Do you know any Mohr's in Butte, MT? Specifically a red headed pistol of a woman?
 
Blueangel said:
Wow that is turning me off from ever considering a Piper!
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That makes no sense....... Dont fly a twin cuz is will flip when you loose an engine. Dont by a Bonanza cuz they kill doctors. Dont buy a Cirrus cuz the engines quit all the time. Stay up on MX and a plane will give you good service. Neglect it and **** happens.
 
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