First Disorientation under the hood

A

Apache123

Line Up and Wait
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Hey, Steve!
I did about 1.5 under the hood this morning. Mainly tracking/bracketing VORs and climbing/descending turns via cfii's vectors. Today was the first time I truly became disoriented. At some point during the bumpy morning I suddenly felt like we were in a hard bank to the right, despite the instruments maintaining straight and level.

You always hear about the urge to follow your instincts, but I was just surprised at how powerful it was both directly and subconsciously. Even though I was trusting the instruments, taking my eyes off the attitude indicator & DG for a second resulted in me subconsciously banking to the left. I'd then have to force myself back to straight & level, and it really felt unnatural. Craziness.

It didn't really go away until I was told to look up once we were back at the airport. What do you guys do to generally "reset" that disorienting feeling? Or is it basically stuck with you until you can see outside again?
 
Force yourself to follow the instruments (while maintain a healthy check to see if they are disagreeing with each other). Better to experience it and learn to control it with the dummy in the right seat than later by yourself.

My most unnerving disorientation occured during my checkride. Rather than letting the DPE fly the plane to create the unusual attitude, I was told to shut my eyes and was issued a variety of turns, etc... to execute. By the time I was allowed to open, I was really getting nervously disoriented.
 
Trust the instruments. Monitor them constantly.
 
frfly172 said:
Trust the instruments. Monitor them constantly.
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Had slight spatial d once with CFII, fell out the bottom of the clouds while making a right turn. Saw the hills, corrected and climbed back in.

Couple of years later, headed away with my wife. Climbing out, cleared direct several hundred nm away. Briefing said tops at 8500; I filed for 10,000 to fly in the pretty weather.

Instead, we entered the clouds around 9700, and I leveled off at 10,000. Staying level was hard! Still climbed a couple hundred feet, sweating hard, with visions of flaming wreckage on the hills below filling my head. Felt like I was gonna stall, didn't know if I was falling or falling AND turning.

Kept reminding myself, Trust the instruments. It was still hard to push forward, but I managed, and after a couple of minutes it went away. Some time after that we reached blue skies.

No problem before, never since. It's life or death. Trust your instruments, crosscheck to confirm they are telling you the truth. Alt vs VSI, confirm with ASI. DG vs Turn Coord, confirm with compass.

My problem was the former, caused by ending a long climb inside a cloud. My body had acclimated to the climb, so lowering the nose to level off felt like a descent, and ASI showed increase, too. The same thing can happen with turns, where leveling the wing feels like a turn in the wrong direction.

Be careful, keep instruments in good repair, trust them over your body, and verify. Fly safe out there . . .
 
I experienced the same last week. Maybe 6 or so IR training flights in, we did unusual attitude recovery exercises I was all messed up. Trust the instruments is all my CFII said when I told him how disoriented I was.
 
OkieAviator said:
I experienced the same last week. Maybe 6 or so IR training flights in, we did unusual attitude recovery exercises I was all messed up. Trust the instruments is all my CFII said when I told him how disoriented I was.
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Just remember to trust the instruments as a whole - don't trust A instrument :)
 
jesse said:
Just remember to trust the instruments as a whole - don't trust A instrument :)
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And don't trust the CFII...tricky bastards they are...alla time making something break and not even having the courtesy to warn ya...then they expect ya to fly like it wuz normal...here, fly this approach with only a Hobbs and a wet piece of string...strange folk, I tells ya...
 
When you look at your AI, picture a little sun in the sky part, little river in the ground part, and just fly the small airplane around like a video game.

Of course when your AI screws up that chances a little :wink2:
 
In my personal experience, the disorienting feeling is part of being in IMC. You just have to ignore it, focus on the gauges, and fly the plane.
 
Clark1961 said:
And don't trust the CFII...tricky bastards they are...alla time making something break and not even having the courtesy to warn ya...then they expect ya to fly like it wuz normal...here, fly this approach with only a Hobbs and a wet piece of string...strange folk, I tells ya...
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Hell, your lucky that you're even allowed to use the Hobbs.
 
Clark1961 said:
And don't trust the CFII...tricky bastards they are...alla time making something break and not even having the courtesy to warn ya...then they expect ya to fly like it wuz normal...here, fly this approach with only a Hobbs and a wet piece of string...strange folk, I tells ya...
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That's funny. Whenever I put the foggles on something always seemed to go wrong..Hmmm..:D
 
I will add a little different twist to this conversation. I flew for years with just a standard vacuum AI and steam gauges. On a few occasions, I would experience disorientation and I think it was due to the slight pitch or yaw that was occurring. It was not enough to move the AI although I think my inner ear could sense it.

When I started flying behind the Aspen AI a couple of years ago, I started noticing that due to the sensitivity of their AI, I could see these little deviations. And although I didn't need to correct for them, I was aware that they happened and confirmed what I was feeling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
My instrument scan is a bit rough and I over control, especially the elevator... then I get zoned into something and it all gets messed up. Only about 6-7 hours into IR flight training so I got some time to figure it out.
 
OkieAviator said:
My instrument scan is a bit rough and I over control, especially the elevator... then I get zoned into something and it all gets messed up. Only about 6-7 hours into IR flight training so I got some time to figure it out.
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Try using your instrument scan when you drive in the car. It was a simple exercise for me but it really helped me constantly monitor all the instruments. But don't forget to look outside when you drive!
 
I get it sometimes if I have been drinking right before a flight.

I tend to snap out of it by flying the AI so to speak.

I fly that little thing like a video game for 5 or 6 seconds and I am back to feeling oriented.
 
That's the purpose of the training. You get it. I always tell new pilots to not cheat when doing foggle training. You know, sneaking a peek out the edges to validate your instruments. In real life the first time you enter a cloud inadvertently the world will stand still even though the plane is flying and making lots of noise. You'll forget that you're at cruise power as you try to make sense of why that little airplane on the attitude indicator is making a hard right turn but you can't feel it. You have a few seconds to get the situation under control and regardless of what your inner ears are telling you, fly the instruments and get back to clear air. Your inner ears and your instruments will probably disagree. Be ready for it.
 
Stewartb said:
That's the purpose of the training. You get it. I always tell new pilots to not cheat when doing foggle training. You know, sneaking a peek out the edges to validate your instruments. In real life the first time you enter a cloud inadvertently the world will stand still even though the plane is flying and making lots of noise. You'll forget that you're at cruise power as you try to make sense of why that little airplane on the attitude indicator is making a hard right turn but you can't feel it. You have a few seconds to get the situation under control and regardless of what your inner ears are telling you, fly the instruments and get back to clear air. Your inner ears and your instruments will probably disagree. Be ready for it.
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Heh.

It's like having a vigorous argument with yourself - the intellect has to win over the instinct. Helps to remember that, if you're trimmed properly before you enter the clouds (and you should always trim properly, right?), you should not need more than a thumb and forefinger to control the plane.
 
Clark1961 said:
And don't trust the CFII...tricky bastards they are...alla time making something break and not even having the courtesy to warn ya...then they expect ya to fly like it wuz normal...here, fly this approach with only a Hobbs and a wet piece of string...strange folk, I tells ya...
Click to expand...

:lol: :eek:
 
jesse said:
Hell, your lucky that you're even allowed to use the Hobbs.
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Given a choice of instruments to smash in the event of a static system blockage, most students will choose the hobbs.
 
I think they should put a six pack on the back of airline seats. Every time I try to drift off the plane banks and I snap my eyes open looking for something to reference. I'd even settle for partial panel :yesnod:
 
It is a powerful sensation and it takes a lot to ignore what your body is telling you the first time it happens. When I was training for my IR I remember the sensation almost being overpowering and it took a lot to force myself to believe the instruments. The good news is that over time with practice that feeling goes away as you learn to only trust your instruments. Now, to be honest, I'm not even really aware of physical sensations any more when IFR/IMC.
 
Maybe you guys can tell me if this is what happened to me.

Flying Pattern A for the first time, a bit ham handed. Got off heading, rolled in nice, then rolled out in a hurry (lead the rollout…and too much bank). I made a real calm question to the CFII that "that AI can't be right, can it?" as it showed a 20 deg right bank and I "felt" it was level. Then looked at the TC and the DG and they both said I was turning right. So, I rolled 20 deg left, all the instruments showed it, and it passed in seconds.

It really didn't seem as scary as what is being described here, but I clearly "felt" the plane was doing something different than it really was. I suppose it would have been quite different with a 60 deg bank, nose down, with a failed AI.

So, did I get a mild case or some such? Is there such a thing?
 
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