First class medical with two DUI’s

S

StudentPilot44

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Aug 19, 2024
Messages
3
Display Name
Display name:
StudentPilot44
Hi everyone! I’m a new student pilot and looking for a little advice regarding my first class medical. I’ve read some past postings on here and I’ve come across a couple that are sort of similar to my situation, but I thought I would make my own post to see if I can get some feedback on my own situation. First off, my apologies if my questions have been answered on previous posts, I may have missed information along the way.

So, I am about 24 hours into my PPL and I went for my first class medical exam at the beginning of May this year. Of course, I wish I would have done my research first and did this before starting lessons. As the title states, I have had two DUI’s in my past, so I was deferred. I completely own the mistakes I’ve made in my past and take full responsibility for the poor decision making I have made.

My first dui was in 2002 and the second dui was in 2012. My BAC was 0.14 on both dui’s. I was 20 years old on the first one and 29 on the second one. I’m now 42 years old. There is nothing else on my driving record and it’s been clean since the last dui. I have sent in my full driving record, court documents, police reports, BAC reports, and personal statement. They have everything they need from me and my application went into “in Review” at the beginning of June. I haven’t heard anything as of now.

My questions are, does anyone know what the current timeline I’m looking at to hear something? I know I’m going on 3 months so far, but possibly knowing what to expect would help a lot.
Also, I would love to hear from others that are currently in the same process or from those that have had similar situations as mine and what I could potentially expect. I’m hoping a first class medical is possible as well.

Thanks in advance for all responses!
 
You should have started with a good HIMS AME who would have gotten your ducks in a row. You're going to need to show provable abstinence and perhaps treatment. The FAA will also want you to demonstrate your obeisance to them by attending AA (though there's no indication that this is going to help you).
 
I'd plan on two years even if you are squeaky clean now.
 
TWO DUIs at any time in your life is going to be abuse. If they were both 0.08s, maybe not. But you're at the upper limit. The DUIs could be in 1960 for all the FAA cares.

A HIMS AME would start you on a private, held to FAA stds random urine sobriety demonstation program and send you to the HIMS psychiatrist (abour $4K) after the fourth month while you continue peeing in the cup. We can get those out of the agency (special) but it then takes about 7 months. So you are looking at a year and the posisbility of peeing in the cup for about 3 years' total.

If you can substantiate sobriety in your 30s it reduces the risk of being judged as beyond abuse- which is a disaster, and that chance albeit small is there.... just depends what's in your head.

As you have already been deferred, the agency WILL be sending you a demand for a random urine within 24 hours of receipt of the certified mail. If it's positive you will get an immdiate denial and invitation to go to full HIMS. Why? Any use of alcohol after the second offence is defined 67.307 dependency. That would mean, "see you after rehab", which the FAA views as education.

dbahn said:
I'd plan on two years even if you are squeaky clean now.
Click to expand...
...so in short, you need to "squeak".
 
Last edited:
bbchien said:
TWO DUIs at any time in your life is going to be abuse. If they were both 0.08s, maybe not. But you're at the upper limit. The DUIs could be in 1960 for all the FAA cares.

A HIMS AME would start you on a private, held to FAA stds random urine sobriety demonstation program and send you to the HIMS psychiatrist (abour $4K) after the fourth month while you continue peeing in the cup. We can get those out of the agency (special) but it then takes about 7 months. So you are looking at a year and the posisbility of peeing in the cup for about 3 years' total.

If you can substantiate sobriety in your 30s it reduces the risk of being judged as beyond abuse- which is a disaster, and that chance albeit small is there.... just depends what's in your head.

As you have already been deferred, the agency WILL be sending you a demand for a random urine within 24 hours of receipt of the certified mail. If it's positive you will get an immdiate denial and invitation to go to full HIMS. Why? Any use of alcohol after the second offence is defined 67.307 dependency. That would mean, "see you after rehab", which the FAA views as education.


...so in short, you need to "squeak".
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response Dr. Chien. Your guidance is super helpful. If the urine test is negative, which route and length of time am I likely looking at?
 
if you need the name of a lab that can start you on random drug screenings message me
 
George S said:
if you need the name of a lab that can start you on random drug screenings message me
Click to expand...
Right. But then the sponsoring HIMS AME has to testify to the randomness and to the conprehensive coverage. Say you leave the country for two weeks- and with ETGs' that's an alcohol test holiday. I don't think the HIMS AME is gonna testify to that - at least I won't. I would get a blood draw test upon the candidate's return. 100% of these are "sponsored SIs".

...and so it goes. If you want to do it just personally, that's another kettle of fish :)
 
Last edited:
Soberlink. It works anywhere in the world as long as you have WIFI or network connection. You can even change your time zones and your HIMS AME will get the update that you are in a different time zone. Soberlink is also the only FDA approved version of testing.
 
Yuh. I have half a dozen captains on this, but it is a rare student pilot that can afford this. It's not cheap. And it does allow you to travel worldwide.
You JUST have to keep it charged. And he has to have someone (MD) who as aeromedical knowledge as to what regeimes the FAA considers adequate, and has to have a way to alt-test whe the airman misses (and Airmen DO miss). So he needs a HIMS AME to run the program.

What George suggests doesn't have all of that. This requires "credible substantiated testimony" from the Sponsoring HIMS AME.
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for the responses! I don’t believe one of my questions was answered regarding the HIMS route. I’m wondering if I’ll have to go full HIMS (that is, if my urine test is negative) or if I am required to have an evaluation and it comes back clear. Also, is it recommended to wait to hear from them next before seeing a HIMS (since I’m already deferred and my case is on the docs desk)?
 
StudentPilot44 said:
Thanks everyone for the responses! I don’t believe one of my questions was answered regarding the HIMS route. I’m wondering if I’ll have to go full HIMS (that is, if my urine test is negative) or if I am required to have an evaluation and it comes back clear. Also, is it recommended to wait to hear from them next before seeing a HIMS (since I’m already deferred and my case is on the docs desk)?
Click to expand...
Based on your history, there is a strong presumption of substance dependence. The attached will give you an idea of what the FAA needs from you to go down the special issuance path.

 
bbchien said:
Right. But then the sponsoring HIMS AME has to testify to the randomness and to the conprehensive coverage. Say you leave the country for two weeks- and with ETGs' that's an alcohol test holiday. I don't think the HIMS AME is gonna testify to that - at least I won't. I would get a blood draw test upon the candidate's return. 100% of these are "sponsored SIs".

...and so it goes. If you want to do it just personally, that's another kettle of fish :)
Click to expand...
What about thru choice labs? Wouldn’t they testify to the randomness of the testing? Last time I checked they test more than 600 pilots
 
why are you doing a first class medical ? Are you trying to make it to the airlines ? Because your DUI's will be an impediment for employment. This is a little bit easier, but they will still want you to go through with it to get that as well.
But what the good doc is telling you is that you dont get to choose whether you are in HIMS or not. They are going to put you there. After a few years, they may let you out, but you're going to have to play in there sandbox until they deem its ok to let you out.
 
George S said:
What about thru choice labs? Wouldn’t they testify to the randomness of the testing? Last time I checked they test more than 600 pilots
Click to expand...
Ariman calls in and sez "I'm on vacation in Western S DAK. and can't get to the lab". Does Choice then substitute a blood peth within the detection window of the PETH? Are they then going to tesfify that the candidate wasn't given a testing holiday in whcih he/she coud have continued with alcohol?

Sure George, anything you want....if it's convenient.

So go ahead and suggest that the poster bypass the HIMS AME. You're gonna be there for him after the denial, right?

Next poster will start with "first class medical after three DUIs" and on it goes.
 
Last edited:
bbchien said:
Ariman calls in and sez "I'm on vacation in Western S DAK. and can't get to the lab". Does Choice then substitute a blood peth within the detection window of the PETH? Are they then going to tesfify that the candidate wasn't given a testing holiday in whcih he/she coud have continued with alcohol?

Sure George, anything you want....if it's convenient.

So go ahead and suggest that the poster bypass the HIMS AME. You're gonna ge there for him after the denial, right?

Next poster will start with "first class medical after three DUIs" and on it goes.
Click to expand...
Where did I ever say that the airmen would bypass a HIMS ame??? I simply offered the name of a lab where he could start his testing now instead of later. Also, if the airmen was out of town for longer than a urine could pickup ETG Choice labs would absolutely substitute it for a blood peth. It also would not really be that hard for the HIMS ame to pick up the phone and ask the administrator at choice labs if the airmen had any unreasonably long “ blackout” dates for the testing if that HIMS ame was retained 3 months after starting randoms with a lab.

You make so many assumptions about the things that people write on this forum and they are frankly just plain wrong. Either that or you don’t bother to read everything.
 
Nor do you. You missed that A HIMS AME is going to to vouch for the randomness and lack of testing holidays that will not appear in Choice's record. Do you really think he coing to do that WHEN IS ISNT THE MRO FOR THE PROGRAM? YGBKM.

And I can tell you Choice does not do that. They don't even warn when the result is dilute, which is a MISSED test. They are among the most inexpensive of providers but nearly cost one of my airmen, his cert. But I wouldn't know about any of that would I?

Now there is ONE Exception. Serum peths every 21 days. That has no need of randomness. Pricey, however.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top