First autoland... Major rush

Kritchlow

Kritchlow

Final Approach
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Kritchlow
I have been an aviation professional for 30+ years, but recently transitioned to a major 121 airline. Although we trained extensively in the sim, this morning was my first actual cat / auto-land appoach I have ever done. In short, it was tense, but an extreme rush. We did it by the book. Briefed and executed. The system works.

Just thought I'd share.

ETA..
The Runway RVR was extremely low. We are certified to Cat IIIB mins.
 
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Heh, if it was yesterday...I have a good guess where you got that experience. We were at CAT II minimums most of the morning. At one point the RVR got low enough we almost lost CAT II.
 
I've done the Cat II in 600 RVR in the sim. I can't imagine what Cat III must be like.
 
MarkZ said:
Heh, if it was yesterday...I have a good guess where you got that experience. We were at CAT II minimums most of the morning. At one point the RVR got low enough we almost lost CAT II.
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Yup... ORD !!
 
LDJones said:
I've done the Cat II in 600 RVR in the sim. I can't imagine what Cat III must be like.
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We are qualled to cat IIIB, 300 RVR. That said this approach was within CAT II minimums.
Our manual specifies anything less than 2400 RVR must be autoland.
 
Kritchlow said:
I have been an aviation professional for 30+ years, but recently transitioned to a major 121 airline. Although we trained extensively in the sim, this morning was my first actual cat / auto-land appoach I have ever done. In short, it was tense, but an extreme rush. We did it by the book. Briefed and executed. The system works.

Just thought I'd share.

ETA..
The Runway RVR was extremely low. We are certified to Cat IIIB mins.
Click to expand...

I don't believe it is good to feel rushed on an auto-land approach especially when the weather is below CAT II minimums.
 
What type of aircraft?

What equipment does the airport need for autoland certification?

And once successfully on the runway, when do the humans take back control and for what actions?
 
AggieMike88 said:
What type of aircraft?

What equipment does the airport need for autoland certification?

And once successfully on the runway, when do the humans take back control and for what actions?
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He flies the A320.

The ILS and the runway need to be Cat2/Cat3 certified.

The Airbus will touch down, place the nosewheel within 6 inches of the centerline and engage the auto brakes (if selected) and roll out the airplane. The PF will engage the reversers and click off the autopilot after slowing.
 
AggieMike88 said:
What type of aircraft?

What equipment does the airport need for autoland certification?

And once successfully on the runway, when do the humans take back control and for what actions?
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It was an A320. I'm not sure about the technical requirements needed to publish a cat II/III approach.

Most airplanes have many different limitations on when the autopilot must be disconnected. For the A320 autoland, the limitation is "taxi speed".
 
RotorAndWing said:
He flies the A320.

The ILS and the runway need to be Cat2/Cat3 certified.

The Airbus will touch down, place the nosewheel within 6 inches of the centerline and engage the auto brakes (if selected) and roll out the airplane. The PF will engage the reversers and click off the autopilot after slowing.
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Just think. The L1011 would do that in 1972.

I subsequently flew the 767. I preferred the auto-land on the 1011. In actual CAT III weather the 1011 main gear would touchdown before you could see anything.
 
aterpster said:
Just think. The L1011 would do that in 1972.

I subsequently flew the 767. I preferred the auto-land on the 1011. In actual CAT III weather the 1011 main gear would touchdown before you could see anything.
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The L-1011 was a helluva airplane, ahead of its time.
 
I work with the guys that did Autoland on the Boeings. They brought back some retirees that did the L1011 back in the 60's-70's to give us a presentation and talk about it. Was really cool to see how they did that with such old tech.
 
BigBadLou said:
Holy smokes, how do you taxi in that soup? Forget soup, this is "chow-dah"! :eek:
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Slowly. The runway and taxiway lights are quite bright. It helps a lot when you are familiar with the airport.

Many of the airports with a history of fog have better light systems for the taxiways than in the earlier days of CAT III. Seattle, for example, has a low-visibility taxi route for 1200 to 600 RVR and a different one for RVR 600.
 
What, no photos? Oh. Wait.

Nice to know there is still something new & fun even after 30yrs.
Thanks for sharing!
 
I was in a DL 767-400 sim a few months and the guys were doing autolands. It was insane. The technology that we have in airliners is amazing. Does your company require you to log a certain number of autolands per month?
 
Henning pioneered the "cat and duck autoland" system long before the L1011. His animal husbandry degree afforded him the methods required for this critical maneuver.

One crucial element of his design in the turbo Model 95, Travel Air, was to safety wire the landing gear in the down position. Later developments in the Cessna 310 precluded the use of safety wire and led to a novel method of aircraft disposal.
 
I did my first auto-land recently too! It was quite bumpy though. Come to find out, the KFC-225 in the Caravan isn't certified for auto-land... :dunno:



But seriously, congrats! While I don't have any aspirations to continue with the airlines, I do want to do a minimums auto-land. I get a bit of a rush just watching that video...

But really, auto-land requirements at 2400RVR??? That seems odd/excessive; what's the reasoning? After doing a few, landing in 1800RVR isn't really all that big of a deal.
 
So, do they allow you to fly the entire approach by hand to Cat I mins, or is the AP flying down to mins, then you click it off to land?

I was talking to a biz jet pilot about when they use (or don't use) the automation and he said that a hand-flown ILS to mins in IMC would be "frowned upon"....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Nothing like pulling up the ATIS and having this returned:

LowVis.jpg
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
But really, auto-land requirements at 2400RVR??? That seems odd/excessive; what's the reasoning? After doing a few, landing in 1800RVR isn't really all that big of a deal.
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Not sure about his procedures, but we have to couple the autopilot below 4000 RVR, and autoland if Cat3. We do have the option of kicking off the AP at DH on Cat 2.

The airlines want the airplane on the ground and at the gate. If you do a go around the time lost, fuel burned and of course the complimentary report to the FAA (the dispatcher makes the report for trend monitoring).
 
jordane93 said:
I was in a DL 767-400 sim a few months and the guys were doing autolands. It was insane. The technology that we have in airliners is amazing. Does your company require you to log a certain number of autolands per month?
Click to expand...

Overseas we carry a Cat2/Cat3 card with our license. Each CAT2/Cat3 we must fill out a trend report, log in in the aircraft log and also in our personal cards.

And Airbus does not require every so many landings as autoland.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Overseas we carry a Cat2/Cat3 card with our license. Each CAT2/Cat3 we must fill out a trend report, log in in the aircraft log and also in our personal cards.

And Airbus does not require every so many landings as autoland.
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I suspect there is a similar procedure in the U.S.
 
jordane93 said:
I was in a DL 767-400 sim a few months and the guys were doing autolands. It was insane. The technology that we have in airliners is amazing. Does your company require you to log a certain number of autolands per month?
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I don't... I'm not sure if the captain does. At the end of every leg we send a summary via acars to the company. One item on the summary is autoland, so I know the company keeps track.
 
dans2992 said:
So, do they allow you to fly the entire approach by hand to Cat I mins, or is the AP flying down to mins, then you click it off to land?

I was talking to a biz jet pilot about when they use (or don't use) the automation and he said that a hand-flown ILS to mins in IMC would be "frowned upon"....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Our policy is the autopilot must be coupled if the weather is below 4000 RVR. We don't need to autoland until 2400.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
But really, auto-land requirements at 2400RVR??? That seems odd/excessive; what's the reasoning? After doing a few, landing in 1800RVR isn't really all that big of a deal.
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I agree.... It seems a bit much. That said, I don't make the rules!!
 
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