Firemen Refuse To Render Aid

My guess is a culture of strict adherence to policy and procedure with strong penalties leading everyone in the firehouse to abandon using common sense and send things up through the chain of command when in doubt.

I see this attitude everywhere, you can't get anyone to do anything outside of standard procedure anymore until they can pass the responsibility on.
 
cowman said:
My guess is a culture of strict adherence to policy and procedure with strong penalties leading everyone in the firehouse to abandon using common sense and send things up through the chain of command when in doubt.
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Or someone so new and afraid of not following 'proper procedure' that he did nothing and the message wasn't effectively relayed to the others. In other words, so afraid of doing the wrong thing that he left all common sense aside.

The article doesn't really say who inside the firehouse knew what.....just details the interaction with the guy at the door who was a recent hire still in probationary status, apparently. I'd say he failed the test.
 
EppyGA said:
Government, always there for you!
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It has nothing to do with government.

You'll find it in every private business there as well.

No one gives a ****. About anything. Wanna guess why I don't live there anymore?

I had similar issues with a tow truck. Not as severe -- no one died -- but it's just how things work there.
 
MAKG1 said:
It has nothing to do with government.

You'll find it in every private business there as well.

No one gives a ****. About anything. Wanna guess why I don't live there anymore?

I had similar issues with a tow truck. Not as severe -- no one died -- but it's just how things work there.
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I got stuck in Dulles, more than one person solicited a bribe to get me out of there. That place is toxic.
 
MAKG1 said:
It has nothing to do with government.

You'll find it in every private business there as well.

No one gives a ****. About anything. Wanna guess why I don't live there anymore?

I had similar issues with a tow truck. Not as severe -- no one died -- but it's just how things work there.
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True. That place is strange indeed. Can't say something like this would never happen elsewhere, but the odds are greater in the vicinity of the beltway.
 
The prevalence of the stereotypical "I've got it made, so I don't have to give a shucks" civil servant here is very discouraging. They're literally everywhere I turn. I'm not saying that's the case of this incident, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.
 
As a life long paramedic and former firefighter, this inaction is unexplainable to me. How hard is it to 1) notify dispatch of an emergency across the street and 2) walk over and render aid.

That team leader (the Lieutenant) should be FIRED, not allowed to retire.
 
Doggtyred said:
As a life long paramedic and former firefighter, this inaction is unexplainable to me. How hard is it to 1) notify dispatch of an emergency across the street and 2) walk over and render aid.

That team leader (the Lieutenant) should be FIRED, not allowed to retire.
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All members of that station who knew this person needed aid and did nothing should be fired and jailed. Their job is to rescue and render aid. That is what they are paid to do. They refused to help.
 
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While the story sucks to read. It's perfectly logical. As the Good Samaritan law has come under fire in the past 30 years and was reduced in many states. Still sucks, that we as a society don't value each other.
 
A nation that is strong enough to give you all you need, is strong enough to deny every thing you need.

Really sad that the help needed was so close, yet so far.
 
I'm sure the Station leadership now know they made a significant hiring error in the moron at the door.
 
Although it's quite possible no action could have saved the old guy.
 
Wow, can't imagine what she felt like while they just looked at her.
 
Captain said:
Was the man on fire?
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Shame on you my friend. I want you to close your eye's and picture your most loved one...Then put them in that place and ask..were they on fire...

I am sorry but if it took a phone call why not make the call. The firefighter could have called 911 and said, we have an emergency.

We have no one to blame but ourselves. We raise our kids not knowing morals how do you expect them to act.

This person or firefighter should be held accountable for doing nothing. I believe we have laws against, inaction or doing nothing and watching. Makes me sick, I hope they go to jail. Screw the fines and let every American see, if you do nothing you will be held accountable.


Tony
 
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1600vw said:
SI am sorry but if it took a phone call why not make the call. The firefighter could have called 911 and said, we have an emergency.
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Others did call 911.

Apparently, the system then dispatched a truck from another station to the wrong address, while this firefighter leaned against his truck.

She couldn’t find her cellphone so she ran back into the computer store and shouted for people to call 911. She and others ran outside and noticed the fire station across the street in the 1300 block of Rhode Island Avenue. She said several bystanders ran over to get help.

“Several people told me the guy behind the door wouldn’t open the door,” Mills said. “He told them, ‘There’s nothing I can do if my lieutenant doesn’t tell me to go.’ ” She said the same firefighter was seen later in the open bay door, leaning against a truck, with his arms folded. “People went over at least three times,” said Mills, who didn’t want to leave her father’s side.

Authorities said it appears that a firetruck dispatched from another station as a result of 911 calls made by the people in the store went to a corresponding address in Northwest Washington, an issue that is also under review. Wilson said the initial report indicates that a police officer flagged down a passing ambulance.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...b44662-88fe-11e3-a5bd-844629433ba3_story.html
 
FF Union coupled with DC Home Rule = Fail. There are few if any more corrupt and inept local governments in the nation. The population of DC is simply unable to manage themselves. It should have gone back to the Fed. in the 90s during the insolvency period. Think Marion Barry....


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Geico266 said:
All members of that station who knew this person needed aid and did nothing should be fired and jailed. Their job is to rescue and render aid. That is what they are paid to do. They refused to help.
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The union rules probably prevent them from responding,,, And I bet the same union will make sure ALL of them will keep their jobs..... :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad:
 
N801BH said:
The union rules probably prevent them from responding,,, And I bet the same union will make sure ALL of them will keep their jobs..... :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad:
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^^ This ^^. Nobody gets fired in DC. NOBODY. Fear of stirring up racism...


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Maybe its just me but if I see someone in need of help I am helping. I do not need anyone telling me what to do. I will do it.
If I do not know what to do then I find those who do know what to do. Stand and do nothing is like laughing in their face.
Karma sucks and will give you a reach around you will never forget...

Tony
 
cowman said:
My guess is a culture of strict adherence to policy and procedure with strong penalties leading everyone in the firehouse to abandon using common sense and send things up through the chain of command when in doubt.

I see this attitude everywhere, you can't get anyone to do anything outside of standard procedure anymore until they can pass the responsibility on.
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This is what we are today, a society devoted to bureaucratism. Nobody in that fire station did anything wrong, they were going by the book of rules we allowed them to write, it is what we want.

We can not even remotely comprehend living in a society that did not have a rule that governed every aspect of our lives.

The rules that fire station adhered to will not be removed, they will be added to, so that there are even more rules.

Don't think, follow the rules, be a team player, stay in your box. It does not matter how many people die, it is how we learn, how we will someday have the perfect book of rules.

-John
 
John Baker said:
Nobody in that fire station did anything wrong, they were going by the book of rules we allowed them to write, it is what we want.
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I strongly suspect that when the details come out you will find that you are wrong.
 
John Baker said:
This is what we are today, a society devoted to bureaucratism. Nobody in that fire station did anything wrong, they were going by the book of rules we allowed them to write, it is what we want.



We can not even remotely comprehend living in a society that did not have a rule that governed every aspect of our lives.



The rules that fire station adhered to will not be removed, they will be added to, so that there are even more rules.



Don't think, follow the rules, be a team player, stay in your box. It does not matter how many people die, it is how we learn, how we will someday have the perfect book of rules.
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Yup. I had this conversation with a Director at my company last week. He's completely convinced certain procedures are required by auditors.

When I asked him to read the law that triggers the audit and show me where it requires what the auditors and the company willing agreed to audit, no interest.

When I pointed out the company added those rules themselves willingly and there's significant evidence they're hurting the bottom line, he ignored it and started the "these rules are important" speech.

He's not willing to even bring up the point with his peers. He's also not willing to admit the reasoning given is essentially a lie.

My attitude? You pay me the same whether you get real work out of me or waste my time. We all also clearly see the lack of true leadership.

They've truly convinced themselves that what they're doing and propagating is good for the long-term health of the organization.

Having worked for winning organizations, I can see why they're third place in their industry and gunning for fourth. Once you convince yourself that policy and procedure trump all, you create a losing culture.

Meanwhile, the checks still cash. I only bring stuff like that up once to anyone that closed-minded. Anything else is an even greater waste of time.
 
denverpilot said:
Yup. I had this conversation with a Director at my company last week. He's completely convinced certain procedures are required by auditors.

When I asked him to read the law that triggers the audit and show me where it requires what the auditors and the company willing agreed to audit, no interest.

When I pointed out the company added those rules themselves willingly and there's significant evidence they're hurting the bottom line, he ignored it and started the "these rules are important" speech.

He's not willing to even bring up the point with his peers. He's also not willing to admit the reasoning given is essentially a lie.

My attitude? You pay me the same whether you get real work out of me or waste my time. We all also clearly see the lack of true leadership.

They've truly convinced themselves that what they're doing and propagating is good for the long-term health of the organization.

Having worked for winning organizations, I can see why they're third place in their industry and gunning for fourth. Once you convince yourself that policy and procedure trump all, you create a losing culture.

Meanwhile, the checks still cash. I only bring stuff like that up once to anyone that closed-minded. Anything else is an even greater waste of time.
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Valid point, but going back to the particular case in question, the alleged claim was that they could not respond to any emergency unless it was called into 911. I will bet money that such a policy does not exist at that FD.

I mean really....if I'm driving around town in the pumper and I see a car accident or a fire..am I supposed to keep on driving back to the firehouse and wait for dispatch to call me? He'll NO!


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Fearless Tower said:
Valid point, but going back to the particular case in question, the alleged claim was that they could not respond to any emergency unless it was called into 911. I will bet money that such a policy does not exist at that FD.

I mean really....if I'm driving around town in the pumper and I see a car accident or a fire..am I supposed to keep on driving back to the firehouse and wait for dispatch to call me? He'll NO!
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The way I read it was that some moron at the door said he couldn't do anything unless his Lieutenant told him to. And he didn't want to go bother the Lieutenant.

What do you bet his Lieutenant shows the same level of cluelessness as the story in my post annoys the hell out of his staff with repetitious speeches about "the rules" and his staff doesn't even want to walk across the firehouse from the front door to interact with him?

Probably more than one hiring and promotion error involved in this story.
 
denverpilot said:
The way I read it was that some moron at the door said he couldn't do anything unless his Lieutenant told him to. And he didn't want to go bother the Lieutenant.

What do you bet his Lieutenant shows the same level of cluelessness as the story in my post annoys the hell out of his staff with repetitious speeches about "the rules" and his staff doesn't even want to walk across the firehouse from the front door to interact with him?

Probably more than one hiring and promotion error involved in this story.
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Well, since one of the trucks was out on a call, it's altogether possible that the lieutenant wasn't on property.
 
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