Finally braved the bravo

Salty

Salty

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Salty
I've always found an excuse to just go around or below, but today I decided to try to plow right through on the way to a delta underneath but on the opposite side. Of course, when they found out I was going all of 80 knots, they just diverted me around anyway.

But, I did get in for about 30 seconds when they noticed a radar contact heading at me, I got a quick "cleared for the bravo, turn and climb immediately". But alas, after the excitement they made me turn back and descend back out and around.... Oh well. At least I was on flight following and finally got over the stigma of avoiding ATC.
 
Be glad! Around here, I'm always told "remain clear of the Bravo" or vectored to south Georgia . . . . And that's moving 145 KTAS.

Why're you flying your Mooney so slow?
 
Hank S said:
Be glad! Around here, I'm always told "remain clear of the Bravo" or vectored to south Georgia . . . . And that's moving 145 KTAS.

Why're you flying your Mooney so slow?
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The Mooney is still flying 0 knots with no engine. I was in a borrowed LSA.

I get the jitters flying the Mooney less than 100 mph unless I’m in the pattern.
 
Salty said:
The Mooney is still flying 0 knots with no engine. I was in a borrowed LSA.

I get the jitters flying the Mooney less than 100 mph unless I’m in the pattern.
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Hope she gets finished up soon! At least you have an option to keep flying for the duration.

You've just reminded me that I need to practice slow flight again. It's fun to fly along with the stall horn buzzing, haven't done that in a while.
 
Hank S said:
Hope she gets finished up soon! At least you have an option to keep flying for the duration.

You've just reminded me that I need to practice slow flight again. It's fun to fly along with the stall horn buzzing, haven't done that in a while.
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Actually I was dropping the other plane off for maintenance, so I’m grounded for awhile.
 
Hank S said:
Be glad! Around here, I'm always told "remain clear of the Bravo" ...
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That's my experience. It's just easier for them to not have low, slow, and inexperienced traffic. But whenever I have had a reason to ask, usually to show the Bravo airport to a guest, I'll ask and entry will be no problem. The usual vector takes me over the airport perpendicular to the active runways. Basically the safest spot in the Bravo sky.
 
airdale said:
. . . I'll ask and entry will be no problem. The usual vector takes me over the airport perpendicular to the active runways. Basically the safest spot in the Bravo sky.
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Thats my idea, and my frequent route crosses ATL at about 60°. Even when I ask, I'm told to either remain clear or copy an amended route. They turn down my requests for T-routes, too. Need to time my climb to above 12,500 to go over them, fly for 60 nm and back down again, my carb doesn't do well that high and there's that 30-minute limit thing . . .

Not sure why ATL's Bravo extends so high, none of the other Bravos that I've looked at do that.
 
Why don't you call them, ask to talk to the TRACON supervisor, and ask your questions? I have always found those guys to be friendly and helpful.
 
Salty said:
I've always found an excuse to just go around or below, but today I decided to try to plow right through on the way to a delta underneath but on the opposite side. Of course, when they found out I was going all of 80 knots, they just diverted me around anyway.

But, I did get in for about 30 seconds when they noticed a radar contact heading at me, I got a quick "cleared for the bravo, turn and climb immediately". But alas, after the excitement they made me turn back and descend back out and around.... Oh well. At least I was on flight following and finally got over the stigma of avoiding ATC.
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Welcome to The Darkside
 
Occasionally I get cleared into or through the bravo in Tampa,and usually get cleared through the bravo in NY . You have to be on your game.
 
Charlotte is pretty good to work with. When on FF near the outer edges, I sometimes get "remain outside class bravo airspace" but is not uncommon to get "clear into Class bravo airspace if you hit it". And they are usually pretty good if heading west to send you right over top perpendicular to the runways at 5,000 feet (not without, climb and maintain 5,000 feet and expedite) Which I am usually thinking, copy, will give you the afterburners on the cherokee). A couple of years ago, flying out of KHMP, ATL approach was going to send us right over the top of Hartsfield Jackson (on an IFR flight plan), but then offered us "direct to destination unless we wanted to do some sight seeing". Took direct but looking back, should have done the sight seeing.
 
Salty said:
I've always found an excuse to just go around or below, but today I decided to try to plow right through on the way to a delta underneath but on the opposite side. Of course, when they found out I was going all of 80 knots, they just diverted me around anyway.

But, I did get in for about 30 seconds when they noticed a radar contact heading at me, I got a quick "cleared for the bravo, turn and climb immediately". But alas, after the excitement they made me turn back and descend back out and around.... Oh well. At least I was on flight following and finally got over the stigma of avoiding ATC.
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Way to go!!

Do you think if your destination was more directly across the Delta you would get in?
 
Sinistar said:
Way to go!!

Do you think if your destination was more directly across the Delta you would get in?
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A direct to would have almost put me directly over the bravo airport. They made me go west and fly down the coast, exactly the way I did the last time I made this trip without trying to go through. The only difference from my past flight was that I was in the system the entire time instead of waiting until I got to the delta at my destination.

But looking at the flight plan again I can see why. To many airspace’s to worry about in this flight. Had I been going further, or had a real airplane they probably could have sent me over the deltas inside the bravo, but they didn’t really have much choice. I was initially thinking they could take me to the east, but that wouldn't really have been any different.

A3FA1D17-5670-4003-ACC0-069331E5DC04.png
 
airdale said:
Why don't you call them, ask to talk to the TRACON supervisor, and ask your questions? I have always found those guys to be friendly and helpful.
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What questions? I’m not seeing questions from anyone in the thread.
 
Salty said:
What questions? I’m not seeing questions from anyone in the thread.
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This one:

Hank S said:
Thats my idea, and my frequent route crosses ATL at about 60°. Even when I ask, I'm told to either remain clear or copy an amended route. They turn down my requests for T-routes, too. Need to time my climb to above 12,500 to go over them, fly for 60 nm and back down again, my carb doesn't do well that high and there's that 30-minute limit thing . . .

Not sure why ATL's Bravo extends so high, none of the other Bravos that I've looked at do that.
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He was referring to Hank bitchin' about ATL. ;):)
 
Salty said:
A direct to would have almost put me directly over the bravo airport. They made me go west and fly down the coast, exactly the way I did the last time I made this trip without trying to go through. The only difference from my past flight was that I was in the system the entire time instead of waiting until I got to the delta at my destination.

But looking at the flight plan again I can see why. To many airspace’s to worry about in this flight. Had I been going further, or had a real airplane they probably could have sent me over the deltas inside the bravo, but they didn’t really have much choice. I was initially thinking they could take me to the east, but that wouldn't really have been any different.

View attachment 61947
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I definitely have no clue about Florida airspace :eek::eek::eek:

From looking at the sectional and the KTPA (Tampa) airport and Bravo airspace around it, the Bravo looks especially crazy on the south side. But also see the major runways are N/S and you were heading south. So you overflying KTPA - even if heading way south would still put you in the big boys arrival/departure I looks like there is some kind of transition going East/West where you'd need to talk to ATC. I would think that would get you cleared the Bravo such as requesting a direct from CLW (on west side) going east to Lakeland or somewhere on the east side.

Where I am based up here, our transition requests are usually SW/NE and the typically active big boy runways are NW/SE so going directly over the Bravo airport is probably a bit easier for approach to work out.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Never have understood why people avoid ATC.
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Well, it arguably was of help to me. Sure, they “saved” me from an invisible plane that I never did see, but they never mentioned two others that came closer than a mile at the same altitude that I avoided on my own. And they routed me the same way I would have gone without them - around their airspace.

Add the extra stress of listening to the busy traffic (maybe I would have seen the invisible plane had I not had to use part of my brain listening to a bunch of irrelevant chatter. It was a constant stream the whole time I was with them, with most of the traffic more than 15 miles away from me) and I came out of the situation 50/50 on what I’d do next time. I can see some value, but it’s also a pain in the neck. They definitely acted annoyed having to deal with me, whether or not that’s true, it seems that way.
 
Every time I've been cleared into a Bravo I get taken so far out of my way that it would have been just as quick to go around. These days I stay clear.
 
Not all ‘Bravos’ are created equal. Some want you to not even ask, the less busy one’s work you in much of the time.
 
Being based near Dayton, Ohio I have gone through the Cincinnati Bravo multiple times. In fact, I've never been denied nor have I been re-routed. With that being said, Cincy is NOT a busy Bravo like Atlanta, at least not anymore. I've been cleared through the Bravo crossing NE/SW (N/S runways in use). It's kind of cool to see the big guys start way above you, go way around you while they descend, and end up below you when you're cruising at about 7,500'. Now, if only they were actually doing that for me!

Honestly, the combination of Cincy not being very busy and the route/altitude I take being out of any arrival/departure paths I think is the main reason I've never had issues. Now that I'm about to fly in/around the Tampa area for a while I'm going to spend time studying the STAR/SID stuff even though I'm not instrument rated just so I can better understand where the airliners are (supposed to be) going.
 
This weekend I was batting .500 on the Bravo transition.

My departure airport is pretty close to the surface column. I had arranged FF and asked for a Bravo squawk code from ground (our Delta can set it up). I was launched with fly on course heading when cleared for takeoff. That course takes me directly towards the surface column. At about 800agl they switched me to Approach. I switched and asked for the transition. Got a maintain VFR. As I got pretty close to the surface column and was about to turn right they vectored me right. I just wish in this case they would tell me right away and I don't know what to expect in those like 3 minutes!!!

On the return trip I was already at good altitude (4500agl) and potentially crossing the Bravo runways at a right angle. I was cleared in several miles early. But about 1/3 of the way across she started flying me around. But I was able to keep my altitude longer and probably saved me another 15 miles or having to fly at 1200agl across miles of city (yuck!).

She did throw me one unexpected command. On her first course change direction I think she told me to intercept a IR waypoint (the phrase sounded like that IIRC). I had my Garmin Pilot map in the Garmin VFR mode that shows these nearby waypoints but I have never been trained on them. So I turned towards it and flew right over it at which time she gave a turn back to the north again. If I had had my sectional view on I think I would have called them back and did a "Say what?" :)
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Never have understood why people avoid ATC.
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I like to use them whenever I can for FF, but at certain times in the L.A. basin it's difficult to wedge a radio call in edgewise. :eek:

I figure if they're that occupied, they've got their hands full with IFR stuff, and I'm more than content to scan for traffic and keep tabs on other aircraft with ADS-B.
 
The last couple of times I have been flying in from south of the DFW Bravo, ATC has tried to vector me around. I tell them to cancel my IFR (unless I need to maintain IFR) and go above. I get direct to my destination and do not have to do the arrival. Faster. I have to be able to descend rapidly, but I would rather do that than get vectored all over creation.

I like being in the Bravo around DFW. There are a lot of students and other pilots going below and around.
 
I've only flown in the SLC Bravo. Did primary training out of KSLC so am comfortable enough with it. Also flew out of KBTF - a tiny field just north of the SFC cake. You pretty much have to deal with ATC for all directions but north.

In any case, they are easy to talk to. It's not quite as busy of an airspace as many other places. Early on in my primary training they cleared us direct for our westerly heading right after takeoff from 35. Load that up in the sim. Basically buzzed the control tower. That was kinda fun.
 
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