Ferry flight lawsuit (mods please help with title)

Without the actual complaint, hard to discuss. But in these instances, it’s not unusual to sue far and wide.

Meeting the burden of proof (preponderance of evidence) that Brin is liable may be challenging, even with a favorable court.
 
7. Was the most pertinent part of the case. Brian is know to hold rich and famous parties worldwide.
 
Why does that matter?

The idea that the CEO of a company several levels removed from the firm that had an employer execute a botched maintenance procedure should be held personally liable is complete and utter nonsense.

Sue the mechanic and the maintenance firm. The liability cost will flow up to the owner(s) of that company, as it should. That would be placing the focus on the people who made the improper, unethical decisions.

Naming Brin in this action is nothing more than a lawyer's grandstanding, using the deaths of two pilots to enable his/her personal cash-grab.
Even more so if the A&P who installed the ferry tanks wasn't an employee and just the shop that was selected to do the job.
 
This implies that our judicial system is effectively a sequence of lottery tickets for lawyers, and not a means to effect justice for those who have suffered a loss.

Perhaps Shakespeare was correct.
New to our courts system? It shouldn’t be this way, but it absolutely is. Same reason Lycoming was sued when a pilot flew a perfectly good airplane (and engine) into cumulogranite.
 
This implies that our judicial system is effectively a sequence of lottery tickets for lawyers, and not a means to effect justice for those who have suffered a loss.

Perhaps Shakespeare was correct.
Something to think about: Shakespeare was portraying a would-be dictator's plan for seizing absolute power.
 
I don't see anything in that complaint that would stick to Brin personally. I do think that there is liability to be found, just not against Brin, and probably not the corporate owners. Nothing seems to allege that the collective owners were negligent in whom they hired to make the modifications and to ferry the aircraft. I would expect a demurrer (motion to dismiss) as against the owners will be forthcoming.
 
Are we playing the most ridiculous airplane lawsuit game??

Vans being sued for a builder that used rtv on his fuel line fittings. Rtv predicably becomes dislodged and stops fuel flow.

John Denver's family suing Aircraft Spruce for selling a valve to a homebuilder and the homebuilder putting it in an awkward position.

Now, I don't think Brin is necessarily squeaky clean. I always thought it was the owners responsibility to preserve the crash. I didn't actually read how the ownership structure was set up. But he (allegedly)claimed NOAA wouldn't let him retrieve the plane. Then when NOAA(allegedly) called that BS, he (allegedly) claimed the Coast guard wouldn't give him the coordinates. To which the coast guard (allegedly) called that BS as well.

1.TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE WITH A DEAD BODY
2. WRONGFUL DEATH AND SURVIVAL NEGLIGENCE 3. PRODUCTS LIABILITY
4. CONVERSION
5. INJUNCTION

I could see at least one of those sticking...if the alleged is true...or even convincing. I mean, a woman successfully sued universal studios haunted house for scaring her too much...at a place she paid to scare just enough.
 
I read just the part that said Brin owned the plane. I'd expect that to be enough to defeat the motion to dismiss, since he would air responsibility for maintaining its airworthiness.

But I'm confused as to why running out of gas, apparently with some notice, resulted in a seaplane crashing in the water.
 
Are we playing the most ridiculous airplane lawsuit game??

Vans being sued for a builder that used rtv on his fuel line fittings. Rtv predicably becomes dislodged and stops fuel flow.

John Denver's family suing Aircraft Spruce for selling a valve to a homebuilder and the homebuilder putting it in an awkward position.

Now, I don't think Brin is necessarily squeaky clean. I always thought it was the owners responsibility to preserve the crash. I didn't actually read how the ownership structure was set up. But he (allegedly)claimed NOAA wouldn't let him retrieve the plane. Then when NOAA(allegedly) called that BS, he (allegedly) claimed the Coast guard wouldn't give him the coordinates. To which the coast guard (allegedly) called that BS as well.

1.TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE WITH A DEAD BODY
2. WRONGFUL DEATH AND SURVIVAL NEGLIGENCE 3. PRODUCTS LIABILITY
4. CONVERSION
5. INJUNCTION

I could see at least one of those sticking...if the alleged is true...or even convincing. I mean, a woman successfully sued universal studios haunted house for scaring her too much...at a place she paid to scare just enough.
Tortious interference with a dead body I don't think can be stretched to require the owner to recover the aircraft from the ocean depths. That should be thrown out. Wrongful death, negligence, and product liability all have legs, but probably not against Brin. Conversion is the civil equivalent to the crime of theft. Not sure how that gets shoehorned into the facts as pled. I think Injunction is mistitled as an injunction is to stop someone from doing something and my understanding was they wanted the court to order the retrieval of the aircraft.
 
I read just the part that said Brin owned the plane. I'd expect that to be enough to defeat the motion to dismiss, since he would air responsibility for maintaining its airworthiness.

But I'm confused as to why running out of gas, apparently with some notice, resulted in a seaplane crashing in the water.
I believe that the owner is a corporate entity, so that would not affect Brin. The owner is not strictly liable for the airworthiness under a negligence cause of action. Nothing was pled that shows that the owners were negligent. By statute, aircraft owners in California can be automatically/vicariously liable, but unless it has changed since I retired, the limit was $15,000.

You as an owner are not liable if the engine you bought from Lycoming blows up due to a manufacturing defect that you had no fingerprints on and no knowledge of the deficiency/defect. It is the same principle here. The owners hired a company to perform work on the aircraft. There was no allegation that the owners were somehow negligent in selecting the companies involved in providing the services. In absence of that, it appears that this suit is just the usual lawyer trick of suing everyone in hopes that people will throw money at them to make it go away.
 
Why does that matter?

The idea that the CEO of a company several levels removed from the firm that had an employer execute a botched maintenance procedure should be held personally liable is complete and utter nonsense.

Sue the mechanic and the maintenance firm. The liability cost will flow up to the owner(s) of that company, as it should. That would be placing the focus on the people who made the improper, unethical decisions.

Naming Brin in this action is nothing more than a lawyer's grandstanding, using the deaths of two pilots to enable his/her personal cash-grab.
But back here in the real world . . .
 
On the matter of tort reform, I am a believer in the idea that some "victim-shaming" needs to be re-instituted. If you do something stupid, you don't get to blame someone else, your lawyer make a ton of money (after percentage, incidentals, etc, you get $5) and require a sticker be placed in your honor. There really needs to be a place where we as a society start saying "No... That happened because you were stupid. Please do not do this again."
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And yes, I am aware that there are cases where big-<insert business type> is at fault and needs to lose a lawsuit.
Yes, I am aware there are cases where plaintiffs have already been told to pound sound, but not nearly enough or publicized enough.
Yes, I am aware that "victim-shaming" is a serious matter that has led many people to have hurt feeling and feel badly about themselves.
 
Why does that matter?

The idea that the CEO of a company several levels removed from the firm that had an employer execute a botched maintenance procedure should be held personally liable is complete and utter nonsense.

Sue the mechanic and the maintenance firm. The liability cost will flow up to the owner(s) of that company, as it should. That would be placing the focus on the people who made the improper, unethical decisions.

Naming Brin in this action is nothing more than a lawyer's grandstanding, using the deaths of two pilots to enable his/her personal cash-grab.

I don't take issue with what you say. However, the CFRs give some ammunition to plaintiffs' attorneys:


14 CF §91.403 General.​

(a) The owner or operator of an aircraft is primarily responsible for maintaining that aircraft in an airworthy condition, including compliance with part 39 of this chapter.​
 
I don't see anything in that complaint that would stick to Brin personally. I do think that there is liability to be found, just not against Brin, and probably not the corporate owners. Nothing seems to allege that the collective owners were negligent in whom they hired to make the modifications and to ferry the aircraft. I would expect a demurrer (motion to dismiss) as against the owners will be forthcoming.

I don't know. The complaint is a masterclass in class warfare, and the matter was filed in California.
 
This implies that our judicial system is effectively a sequence of lottery tickets for lawyers, and not a means to effect justice for those who have suffered a loss.

Perhaps Shakespeare was correct.
Read the context of that famous phrase and you will find that it doesn’t mean what you think it does. But I agree with the sentiment.
 
I'm not a lawyer but if the complaint does include this Google guy, i'm sure he has more money then the lawyer and should spend a conceivable amount on tying this lawyer up with work.
 
No he should actually do the opposite and make the lawyer waste time and resourses on this stupid lawsuit
I agree. I would fight this even if it costs me more than what it would take to settle.
I'd like to see tort reform and loser paying all the legal costs, like it is in most other civilized countries. Lady justice isn't blind here, the balance will generally shift in favor of the one with most money. Look at big corporations like Apple and such, suing little guys for "patent infringement", knowing full well that even if they're innocent they don't have the finances to defend themselves.
 
This implies that our judicial system is effectively a sequence of lottery tickets for lawyers, and not a means to effect justice for those who have suffered a loss.

Perhaps Shakespeare was correct.

Jackpot justice is a falsehood put forth by the various Chamber of Commerce entities and insurance companies. If the facts and law don’t add up, the case never sees trial and a jury never awards a “lottery ticket” verdict. Unfortunately, the only effective justice for those that suffer a loss is $$$. Nothing changes someone’s behavior like reaching into their wallet.

Which is one of the reasons there is support for tort reform.

In states that have passed some measure of tort reform insurance rates are not reduced. All tort reform does is allow those that have committed wrongs to not be held liable for the full value of their wrongful actions. I’ve had to sit across the table from a widower and explain why their lawsuit for the death of their spouse is worth less because the Legislature determine tort reform caps were appropriate.
 
… I’ve had to sit across the table from a widower and explain why their lawsuit for the death of their spouse is worth less because the Legislature determine tort reform caps were appropriate.

Caps are just one tort reform tactic; notice I neither limited my statement nor did I advocate any specific type of tort reform.
 
I’ve had to sit across the table from a widower and explain why their lawsuit for the death of their spouse is worth less because the Legislature determine tort reform caps were appropriate.
Perhaps you should not have filled her head with false hopes of vast sums of wealth that are based neither on logic nor justice.
 
Perhaps you should not have filled her head with false hopes of vast sums of wealth that are based neither on logic nor justice.
Who said “vast sums of wealth”? Perhaps you would have a different understanding of damage caps if you were the one damaged. Me thinks not based on your statement.
 
First, let me be clear that I fully concur with findings of damages based on actual liability due to direct and clear incompetence or malfeasance. And yes, there is little more than can be done to compensate for loss than to offset financially. (And, FWIW, I have served as a jury foreman on a vehicular injury liability case, so I am familiar with how the process works).

HOWEVER: Blindly filing lawsuits directed at the wealthiest entity that can be connected by even the slightest thread of connection is simply dishonest, and, IMO, unethical.

Collecting $10M from a doctor who botches a surgery ? Sure. Collecting a few billion from a medical device company that knowingly distributes a harmful drug or product? Absolutely.

Blaming a loosely connected third party for someone else's incompetence? That should be WAY out of bounds.

Let's say that I call for a "Rent-a-Jet" (fictitious name, I hope) ride for several of my employees to take to a customer site. Before the plane leaves its base to come pick them up, maintenance is done on the main landing gear. When it arrives at my airport to pick my people up, one side collapses on landing, sending it onto a taxiway and into another plane, killing several people. Should they sue one of my employees who was waiting for the plane, just because he has a large inheritance? Does it make sense to sue me for that liability? Be honest - where should the liability for the flawed maintenance rest?

The "lottery ticket" problem isn't that large findings exist. The problem is that they are often being extracted from a victim of mis-directed legal action - someone (or some corporate entity) who had no actual responsibility for the events, and who often had no reasonably foreseeable way to have done anything to change the outcome or prevent the problem.
I agree that the “Sue everyone, let the jury sort them out” approach taken by very few of my colleagues is inappropriate. But most lawyers don’t sue someone unless there’s a legal and factual basis for the claims, because ethics. The amount of work and research that goes into a large multi-party lawsuit like the one we are discussing here and the parties that ultimately get sued is not done without careful thought and consideration.

The “problem” you identify that a victim of mis-directed legal action being held liable without any actual responsibility for the wrongdoing having to pay would be amazing for trial lawyers such as myself, if it did in fact exist. It doesn’t.
 
Who said “vast sums of wealth”? Perhaps you would have a different understanding of damage caps if you were the one damaged. Me thinks not based on your statement.

When it comes to liability caps, Europeans have a much different view, usually based on loss of material damages over a lifetime, though some countries do incorporate immaterial damages.

A 41 year old husband and father is the scenario below
810404d5594e22d94db447e4535c46c2.jpg


A 17 year old….
4e6705f705ac6f3d929180b01f4f5efa.jpg


Those are nationwide limits, using formulas and actuarial data. It’s interesting how to value a life.

 
...In states that have passed some measure of tort reform insurance rates are not reduced. All tort reform does is allow those that have committed wrongs to not be held liable for the full value of their wrongful actions....
What about the statute of repose that Congress passed, which convinced Cessna to start making small piston airplanes again? Does that fall in the category of tort reform?
 
A great start on tort reform, in my opinion, would be to allow the defendant to be compensated for direct and indirect costs incurred when the defendant prevails. I have been the subject of two malpractice suits brought after the patients retained insurance checks and refused to pay their bills. Once collection efforts were instituted the patients filed suit. Both cases persisted for a couple of years and incurred a bit of expense to defend. Both cases were dismissed with prejudice and the plaintiffs incurred no expenses. In fact, in one case the plaintiff's potential expert, after reviewing the records, sent my attorney a letter saying he would make himself available as a defense expert in my case if desired.
 
Make the loser's attorney personally responsible for all of the winner's legal expenses. Problem solved.
 
What about the statute of repose that Congress passed, which convinced Cessna to start making small piston airplanes again? Does that fall in the category of tort reform?

Most states have Statutes of Repose and I wouldn't consider that tort reform. I think repose statutes are similar in nature to statute of limitations for actions which are entirely proper. At a certain point in the future, you shouldn't be able to hold someone liable for defects.
A great start on tort reform, in my opinion, would be to allow the defendant to be compensated for direct and indirect costs incurred when the defendant prevails. I have been the subject of two malpractice suits brought after the patients retained insurance checks and refused to pay their bills. Once collection efforts were instituted the patients filed suit. Both cases persisted for a couple of years and incurred a bit of expense to defend. Both cases were dismissed with prejudice and the plaintiffs incurred no expenses. In fact, in one case the plaintiff's potential expert, after reviewing the records, sent my attorney a letter saying he would make himself available as a defense expert in my case if desired.

This is the "American Rule" with respect to attorneys fees. Each side is responsible for their own attorneys fees, with exceptions. Our system regarding lawsuits isn't perfect, but I'll take it over any other legal system in world. The more you try to limit the kind of lawsuits you wish to prevent from ever happening, the more constitutional rights you are infringing upon. It is a delicate balancing of interests.

As a practicing attorney in the tort arena, the number of clients I accept and file lawsuits on behalf of versus the number of clients/lawsuits I turn down is probably on the magnitude of 1 to 25 if not greater.
 
The “problem” you identify that a victim of mis-directed legal action being held liable without any actual responsibility for the wrongdoing having to pay would be amazing for trial lawyers such as myself, if it did in fact exist. It doesn’t.

Please spare us. I have been to too many mediations and settlement conferences where mediators and judges strong-arm settlements based not on the facts but because of the cost of defense and risk of a runaway jury. As long as there is insurance to pay, the plaintiff's bar will be there, and the judges are all too happy to perpetuate it.
 
Make the loser's attorney personally responsible for all of the winner's legal expenses. Problem solved.
If the problem is people being able to file lawsuits at all, or lawyers putting their clients' interests above their own, then yes, that would solve it.
 
This is one of those "both sides are right" debates.

Lawsuits are a necessary process. I can say from personal experience they are a huge motivator in forcing businesses to take prudent risk reduction measures.

But they are absolutely subject to abuse, especially in circumstances where the potential for a large payout from a wealthy target exists.

Insurance companies play an important part in mitigating abuse and constraining the system. They are usually the big losers in a large award, so they push for settlements and mediations, and are prepared to aggressively defend in court.

Brin almost certainly has a huge personal liability and umbrella policy, so his insurance lawyers will deploy in force and threaten a battle of attrition. The case will go to mediation, where it will probably settle for a few million bucks. All the lawyers will get paid, the grieving widow will get 60%, and Brin's premium will go up.
 
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