Feedback about being a pilot as a career

This is what a typical new hire schedule looks like at a regional. This was my schedule about six months in.

Yep, and why my ex-squadronmate quit the regionals (XJT coincidentally) after just 6 months to get back to freelancing in the Reserves. Thankfully he found an full time technician job, and dropped XJT like a hot potato. You couldn't pay me enough to have that garbage schedule with kids at home. And commute to domicile on top of it? LOL Noooo thanks. My hat's off to ya. I think it's a travesty what goes on at the regionals. It's the same damn paint-drying FMS-finger-fu***ng job as the majors, for a lot less pay. All under the canard of "apprenticeship", which in a revenue-pax job is absolute bulls--t. I digress.

I suppose we should be thankful there are other jobs in part 91 and 135 that offer more friendly schedules for people who don't happen to hate their home life. The pay as always, is the sticking point. Interesting side note: part 91 and 135 also benefit from lateral income portability, like most pedestrians job do, which a lot of people tend to forget since 121 usually dominates the professional pilot job narrative offline and online alike.
 
Lol!!! It doesn't work that way.
I realize you understand about seniority, but the chief pilot is a management position... often well down the seniority list.

Well then screw that guy. I wanna be the guy I work with. Paycheck and free time. Sounds ideal.

I mean... he only had to work 30 years after getting out of the USAF to get there but still.
 
Well then screw that guy. I wanna be the guy I work with. Paycheck and free time. Sounds ideal.

I mean... he only had to work 30 years after getting out of the USAF to get there but still.
Roger. Not sure what you are saying, but roger all the same.
 
I just don't believe most of those jobs adhere to proper rest time restrictions. Yours might, and James might, but most do not. If you have a 14 hour day, and you have been on call for 11 hours, they cannot send you on a 4 hour mission even though you've been sitting in your butt all day.
Also they must give you a time to be available the following day.

That statement would be true for a scheduled flight operation. There is a big difference between scheduled flight and unscheduled flight, which medivac flights are on demand unscheduled flights.

It is a little difficult to explain easily. The FAA official duty day is 8 hours flight time in 24 hours, and 14 hour duty day. Waiting on a call is not duty time unless I am waiting at the airport and cleaning the plane. Since it is not a scheduled flight operation, but it is an unscheduled on demand flight, a pilot can be on call starting 12am. If the first call comes at 1400, that pilot can certainly take the flight and be legal, because the last 14 hours is considered rest time by the FAA, and the duty time starts when the pilot receives the call. Lets say the pilot receives the call, runs to the airport and is off the ground at 1430, and returns to the airport and puts the plane away and is out the door at 2200. That pilot is now required to have 10 hours rest, so that pilot can't go back on call until 0800. But since most medivac companies split the day into two 12 hour shifts, the company won't put him back on call until 12am. And we are all legal because of the required rest time is met.

Clear as mud yet?

Most Medivac companies would send the 2nd shift pilot out instead so that is usually no problems with rest times.

And sitting at home or outside cutting your grass is not considered duty time. And yes, I believe that if I can't drink, then I am on duty, but unfortunately that does not hold water with the FAA. In scheduled flight operations, a pilot is usually assigned a duty time, like 0800 to 2200. With that the pilot turns into a pumpkin at 2200 and has to be out of the door, or at least no longer doing company work by that time.

At this company we won't send the first pilot out unless the flight can be off the ground before the end of the 12 hour shift.

Ok, ready to pull you hair out yet? :mad2: :lol::lol::lol:
 
That statement would be true for a scheduled flight operation. There is a big difference between scheduled flight and unscheduled flight, which medivac flights are on demand unscheduled flights.

It is a little difficult to explain easily. The FAA official duty day is 8 hours flight time in 24 hours, and 14 hour duty day. Waiting on a call is not duty time unless I am waiting at the airport and cleaning the plane. Since it is not a scheduled flight operation, but it is an unscheduled on demand flight, a pilot can be on call starting 12am. If the first call comes at 1400, that pilot can certainly take the flight and be legal, because the last 14 hours is considered rest time by the FAA, and the duty time starts when the pilot receives the call. Lets say the pilot receives the call, runs to the airport and is off the ground at 1430, and returns to the airport and puts the plane away and is out the door at 2200. That pilot is now required to have 10 hours rest, so that pilot can't go back on call until 0800. But since most medivac companies split the day into two 12 hour shifts, the company won't put him back on call until 12am. And we are all legal because of the required rest time is met.

Clear as mud yet?

Most Medivac companies would send the 2nd shift pilot out instead so that is usually no problems with rest times.

And sitting at home or outside cutting your grass is not considered duty time. And yes, I believe that if I can't drink, then I am on duty, but unfortunately that does not hold water with the FAA. In scheduled flight operations, a pilot is usually assigned a duty time, like 0800 to 2200. With that the pilot turns into a pumpkin at 2200 and has to be out of the door, or at least no longer doing company work by that time.

At this company we won't send the first pilot out unless the flight can be off the ground before the end of the 12 hour shift.

Ok, ready to pull you hair out yet? :mad2: :lol::lol::lol:
You cannot be on call continuously. On call is duty time. No exceptions.
 
Jiminez and Berry cases. Trying to link now.
 
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Anyway... it's extremely clear cut and well spelled out.

If you have to answer your phone, it's duty time. Not rest.

I'll try to upload it but I'm not real computer savvy.
 
Average work week for a full time job is currently 47 hrs or 9.4 hrs per day. For the month of March (M-F),that equals 216.2 hrs. I'm scheduled for only 180 hrs for March with 7 on and 7 off.

Not that you can even call it work. I "worked" 12 hrs hrs last night. I spent 6 hrs reading a book and watching TV and then 6 hrs of sleep. Home every night / day.

That

And no overnights for me ether, we same work the profile as a RW.
 
You cannot be on call continuously. On call is duty time. No exceptions.

I agree with you, but 135 operators have been getting around this forever by telling the FAA that when a pilot isn't on 'official' duty, he/she isn't required to pick up the phone. However if the call comes and they choose to pick up, and the resulting flight is within the rest parameters otherwise, it's legal. Of course behind the scenes it's understood that the pilot *better* pick up the damned phone, but everyone knows what to say to the POI come audit or 299 time. The POI knows too, but as long as the paperwork checks out and everyone says the correct things to his face, he'll let it slide.

Not saying it's right, but it's been rampant in the small time (i.e. one crew per airframe) 135 world for as long as I've been around. The pilots don't make a fuss because they're logging jet PIC and don't want to burn their stepping stone to something better, and the POI doesn't care because the paperwork all checks out and there's no way prove whether picking up the phone when off duty is actually compulsory when everyone - even the pilots - tells you it's not.
 
My experience flying for Delta was nothing like this. Guys talked about how much more time they had with their kids than all their non-airline friends. In a very short time at an airline you can get a great schedule. I had to find a hobby for my spare time!

Yeah, every military guy I've flown with (I tend to fly with a lot that are in their first year) says the same. They can't believe how awesome the job is. It's clearly not the right job for hindsight2020 and that's cool - everyone has different priorities. But I think your experience is the norm, at least at the majors.
 
Yeah, every military guy I've flown with (I tend to fly with a lot that are in their first year) says the same. They can't believe how awesome the job is. It's clearly not the right job for hindsight2020 and that's cool - everyone has different priorities. But I think your experience is the norm, at least at the majors.
Same for me at my regional. As I wrap up my first year once April comes around, my schedule has been amazing. I'm on track to make 60K, never sat reserve, average 15-17 days off a month, hold every weekend off, got Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve/day, New Year's Eve/day off and I'm bidding about 25% in the FO side in NY.
 
Same for me at my regional. As I wrap up my first year once April comes around, my schedule has been amazing. I'm on track to make 60K, never sat reserve, average 15-17 days off a month, hold every weekend off, got Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve/day, New Year's Eve/day off and I'm bidding about 25% in the FO side in NY.

That's friggin' cool dude - glad you're enjoying it. This seems to be an unprecedented time in the industry, and hopefully the music will keep playing for awhile - at least until you kids (get off my lawn!!!) get sucked up by the heavy hitters. :)
 
You cannot be on call continuously. On call is duty time. No exceptions.


:sigh: In the 121 and 135 scheduled flight world you are correct.

Unscheduled on demand is different. A lot of times when I was on call, I was in bed sound asleep. Was that rest time or duty time? Remembering that while asleep I am not performing any duty for the company.
 
Unscheduled on demand is different. A lot of times when I was on call, I was in bed sound asleep. Was that rest time or duty time? Remembering that while asleep I am not performing any duty for the company.

My charter company was unscheduled, on demand Part 135. It's possible air ambulance is a different beast, I dunno, but in the scenario above, if there's any *expectation* that you answer your phone while you're asleep, you're on duty. For example, could you have gone to the fridge and chugged a beer? Now if you *choose* to answer your phone (or call them back and accept the trip), then you're good to go. This is the loophole that companies (like my old one) use to operate on-demand with one crew per airframe and not go sideways with their POI.
 
I just don't believe most of those jobs adhere to proper rest time restrictions. Yours might, and James might, but most do not. If you have a 14 hour day, and you have been on call for 11 hours, they cannot send you on a 4 hour mission even though you've been sitting in your butt all day.
Also they must give you a time to be available the following day.

You are correct in the duty day rules and that is my understanding in all air ambulance operations. I have several friends in other programs and they all use the same 14 hrs max duty and at least 10 hrs rest in a 24 hr period from Part 135.267. I cannot accept a flight that would put me past 14 hrs back at my base. Doesn't matter that I sat around all day or not.

It's a whole different ball game in air ambulance now compared to say the 80s and 90s. I know people who have flown then and they were pushed to fly in bad weather and did skirt the regs on duty day and rest. Accidents rates rose and as a result, the FAA clamped down. Now, you have a combination of FAA fines and a pilot law suit climate that have companies shaking in their boots. Forget duty day, a pilot now a days can turn down a flight just because they don't feel up to flying. Whole different culture now.
 
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That's friggin' cool dude - glad you're enjoying it. This seems to be an unprecedented time in the industry, and hopefully the music will keep playing for awhile - at least until you kids (get off my lawn!!!) get sucked up by the heavy hitters. :)

Ugh, this really makes me want to take the leap....
 
...it's simple, if you LOVE what you do/work...everything else will follow. My suggestion is to get him in the air now...I worked for flight time!


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I am just wondering how the lifestyle of a professional pilot meshes with being a family man, helping raise kids, being there for them when they need you, and so on.

::channeling my inner denverpilot:: :p

I’m a day late and a dollar short to this, but I was on the road and wanted to wait until I got back to a real computer to reply. I'm not a fan of typing a lot from an iPad. But it gave me time to think about it a bit, and you can see from the two pages of replies that you got a wide variety of responses. I'll speak to the airline experience, but as you can tell from your replies, there are a lot of ways to skin the professional pilot cat, the airlines being just one of them.

The airline gig is one with the potential for an incredible amount of flexibility. That's part of what makes it so desirable. Every month I bid a schedule that supports the kind of life I want at home. I can then move trips around once my schedule is in place. I can drop trips and be home more if I’m willing to make a little less that month, then pick up trips and fly my ass off the next month if I want the fat check. If I *really* want to whore out for the money, I can sacrifice predictability and go grab ‘premium’ trips - ones where the company gets in a staffing bind and is willing to pay a bunch more for someone to step up and fly it. And every month, I can play it completely differently depending on my needs. Of course the specific extent of that flexibility is determined by the pilot’s seniority in that seat (i.e. ORD 737 FO, LAX 320 CA, etc), but even the junior guys have choices to make.

So with this flexibility, it’s entirely possible for an airline pilot to make choices that result in a home life that is the envy of every other parent/spouse on the block with a regular 9-5 job. Many do. I fly with people all the time that have fantastic marriages with great relationships with their kids. It’s not uncommon at all, and if your son is serious about having a rock solid family life, there is nothing stopping him from doing so as an airline pilot. It’s just that all that flexibility creates an environment where you’re constantly faced with the ability to make more money if you’re willing to sacrifice your schedule to do it. And frankly, a lot of us are p!ss poor at managing the balance of being home and going out and fattening our wallets at any cost. Lemme give you an example:

A salaried office worker and an airline pilot both have the week of Thanksgiving off. The office worker goes home to his family and thinks no more about it. The airline pilot plans to be home, but that Monday gets offered a premium trip that’ll have him gone from Tuesday through Friday. His thought process goes like this: “Twenty four hours of pay at 200%…with per diem that’s like (gets out the calculator) - that’s $12,000! Hell, think of what we could do with that cash! And crap, with the company DC into my 401(k), that’s almost another two grand right there. The wife and kids won’t mind if I’m gone this one time - after all, they benefit from the money too. Besides, I’ll be home by the weekend.” So now he’s justifying all sorts of things to go chase the money. And if he goes even further down the rabbit hole, he begins to feel that by *not* picking up the trip, he’s essentially *paying* over $12K for the ability to be home. I see this kind of thought process all the time. Usually a year later this guy will be spotted in the bar bragging to his buddies that he cleared $400K as an FO, but then ***** about how hard the job is on his family.

Another example, but this one doesn’t involve money, and it’s a personal one. My girlfriend is a doctor in her first year of a surgical residency. Her assigned hospital was in a different city than where we were living before, but fortunately also in a city where my airline has a base. The new base doesn’t have the kind of airplane I’m flying now, so I had to bid something different. What I wanted to bid was the 767/757 (well *really* the 777, but I’m still a couple years too junior). I’ve always wanted to fly the 757, but they’re getting older and therefore going away eventually, so the time is now if I want to do it. Unfortunately my seniority in that airplane wouldn’t be so great. I’d be bouncing between a line holder and a reserve - probably getting some of the days off I wanted if I were willing to sit reserve, but have a garbage schedule if I preferred the predictability of a line. If I were single, or had a girlfriend with a regular job, I’d still be all over it. But my girlfriend’s schedule is nuts. Six days a week at 12 hours a day minimum, and she doesn’t get her schedule until a day or two prior to the start of the month. So flexibility on my part is key, and I’m not sure that I’d have the flexibility I’d need on the 767/757. So therefore I bid the 737. It was the right decision, but the pilot inside me kicked and screamed the entire time. Believe me, it’s still p!ssed as hell. Not that the 737 is a bad airplane, but it’s not a 757, and instead of laying over in Europe and South America, I’ll be yet again overnighting in many of the domestic cities I’m already familiar with. But on the flip side, I’ll have the kind of seniority to pretty much build my monthly schedule any way I’d like, and then modify it to maximize my time with my girlfriend once she knows what her month looks like.

Anyway, I used this example to illustrate that it wasn’t an easy call to make, even though I knew it was the right one. I think a lot of us say we’d choose QOL all the time, every time, but when faced with a pile of cash in our face, a shiny cool piece of equipment, the 4th stripe, or whatever - it’s not as easy as we’d like to think. The flexibility of an airline job waves these kinds of decisions in our face all the time, and many of us don’t handle it well at all. And IMO, it’s that failure that’s responsible for the difficult lifestyle stereotype. That same flexibility wielded properly can create awesome family situations that I witness all the time. Unfortunately, like anything else, it’s the negative stuff that defines the narrative.
 
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My charter company was unscheduled, on demand Part 135. It's possible air ambulance is a different beast, I dunno, but in the scenario above, if there's any *expectation* that you answer your phone while you're asleep, you're on duty. For example, could you have gone to the fridge and chugged a beer? Now if you *choose* to answer your phone (or call them back and accept the trip), then you're good to go. This is the loophole that companies (like my old one) use to operate on-demand with one crew per airframe and not go sideways with their POI.

In the 121 supplemental on call world, the way they got away with being on call 24/7, is there is no requirement for rest until after you've operated a flight, at which point you are due a minimum of 8 hours of rest, up to 16 hours of rest, depending on how much you flew (2x the flight time). So, if you haven't flown, you have no legal requirement for rest, it's a BS deal, and that's why I bailed on that as soon as I could.
 
:sigh: In the 121 and 135 scheduled flight world you are correct.

Unscheduled on demand is different. A lot of times when I was on call, I was in bed sound asleep. Was that rest time or duty time? Remembering that while asleep I am not performing any duty for the company.
That was NOT rest. Your company was pulling a fast one. Sound asleep or not, if you have to answer your phone you are on duty.
 
Just be prepared for scheduling to actively ignore FAR 117.

We're having an issue right now with scheduling calling us on our days off to tell us when we report or that we're getting extended. Their suppose to tell us that when we call to get released but their giving us their middle finger.
 
Just be prepared for scheduling to actively ignore FAR 117.

We're having an issue right now with scheduling calling us on our days off to tell us when we report or that we're getting extended. Their suppose to tell us that when we call to get released but their giving us their middle finger.
Or they call at 2am and say your check in time has been changed to 8 minutes later and it's imperative you give them a call immediately:mad:
 
Or they call at 2am and say your check in time has been changed to 8 minutes later and it's imperative you give them a call immediately:mad:

Junior Mans, any crap during sleep, and/or extensions will go straight to voicemail and be promptly deleted. I'm so happy we don't have to accept junior man calls here!!
 
Things have changed so much in the last 5 years that anything you have read prior to 2011 about flying careers might as well be thrown out the window. The "get a degree in something other than aviation" is outdated advice.

I disagree. The reason for getting a degree in something else is that every pilot will eventually stop flying. If you are lucky then it will happen when you retire. But most pilots will stop flying prior to retirement due to developing medical issues which make them ineligible for a first class medical. Having a degree in something else is a fallback if that happens in the first few years. Business or Management are good choices because once you have those, you can very easily transition to working for an airline instead of flying for them.
 
Once you make the airlines your living large...big money, tons of time off, yachts and beach houses, women won't leave you alone. I wasted four years on engineering school...shoulda been a pilot!

No need to be a family man when your sipping tequila at your beach house with beautiful women all around! :D
 
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Honestly, this question cannot be answered in the word-count-averse format of this message board. Way too much to address. I can tell you almost universally, my married airline pilot co-workers have stay-at-home wives taking care of the kids full time at home through their heavily variable and 9-5-unfriendly schedules. The rest are divorced and the females of course have physical custody of the children; they merely send a check and fight for visitation, but otherwise are not encumbered by the impositions of a family when it comes to their work schedules. I don't have a wife who believes in that lifestyle (shes in college and intends to work full time, we are also parents), and I don't agree with the SAHW choice either since I would feel like a hypocrite rejecting the offer if my spouse asked me to stay at home in order to acquiesce to her career, but that's a personal choice. The rest of my airline buds are bachelors or DINKS and just crushing it on the layover lifestyle. I don't really take the latter two into consideration, as the entire society can't be childless, so I don't find them a useful metric for the median aspirant.

BL, your son needs to figure out what kind of family demographic he wishes to deal with in his 30s and 40s. Kids and a bona fide working spouse? (selling crap online for pin money while sipping on wine at home is NOT a legitimate job btw). Chances are not good it'll be a workable thing. Likewise, if the thought of taking a huge income paycut to remain employed stateside, regardless of age or experience (no lateral portability of income in airline work btw, which 99pct of the workers in this economy do enjoy) doesn't phase him, then knock yourself out. There's a ton of other issues that need addressing, but I've already exceeded most readers squirrel brain character count attention span. Ask this question in a professional message board, they'll probably be more willing to entertain more wordy responses.

Wow seems like you got quite the grudge against flying careers lol. I have several friends who fly for the airlines (several who are Southwest Airlines Captains)...sure you pay your dues at some point, but damn they get a lot of time off and get to travel, etc. They are happily married and have kids. Pretty bold statement to say your destined for a ****ty marriage if you fly for a living.

If your love is sitting at a desk in a cubicle never seeing the outside world for 8 hours a day then good for you (this is what I currently do). I don't enjoy it all that much.
 
Same for me at my regional. As I wrap up my first year once April comes around, my schedule has been amazing. I'm on track to make 60K, never sat reserve, average 15-17 days off a month, hold every weekend off, got Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve/day, New Year's Eve/day off and I'm bidding about 25% in the FO side in NY.

I envy you...would love to be in your position at your age.

What a great post by Kayoh as well! Good read.
 
All I know is my engineering career won't pay for an RV8...if I want to be able to afford a Vans I gotta be a pilot making the big bucks! :p

My observations are flying careers start out rough in terms of schedule and pay...but if and when you make it to the airlines you end up pretty well off between your pay and schedule. Opposite is true of most desk jobs (I guess I'm speaking from my limited engineering experience here)...pay starts off pretty good and work life balance is nice (sitting at a desk and little vacation sucks though). As pay increases responsibility increases and before you know it your working 60-70 hours a week with a family and your getting paid half of what airline pilots are making. Seems like most engineers top out at 110-120k. Still a good living...but pretty average when you got guys making 200-400k and tons of time off.

Regardless I get it...a flying career is a sacrifice. Every job has sacrifices you just have to decide if they are worth it or not (I am still deciding this myself - do I jump ship or stay...I don't know). I just cringe at the thought of living the corporate America dream of sitting in a cubicle for the next 40 years as I get my magnificent 2% merit increase every few years lol
 
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That was quite a rant, hindsight. Not sure where you got the idea that I'm somehow giving life advice based on *my* situation. A father came on here asking whether it'd be possible for his kid to have a un-f***ked family life as a pilot, and I responded in the affirmative. I'm glad you have 45 airline friends. So do I, and I also fly with a different airline pilot every week. Almost all have a wife and kids. Most talk to me about the decisions they make to make it work, and my response merely reflected what I've learned.

I feel like we're commonly our own worst enemy when it comes to dorking up our home life. I think an unneccesarily high amount of the blame goes to the profession itself. If that makes me a koolaid guy, then so be it. I feel like I've been pretty even handed about my job on this board. Hell, I even once told James that if I weren't such a city slicker and cool with Alaska, he'd have my resume tomorrow. ;)

And hey, as far as spear chucking, re-read the thread. You cast the first stone before any of the airline guys you decided to call to the carpet made a comment about the family aspects of the job.
 
Regardless I get it...a flying career is a sacrifice. Every job has sacrifices you just have to decide if they are worth it or not (I am still deciding this myself - do I jump ship or stay...I don't know). I just cringe at the thought of living the corporate America dream of sitting in a cubicle for the next 40 years as I get my magnificent 2% merit increase every few years lol

The big thing that's tough about this gig is that when people talk about their situation, whether it be schedule, pay, how long it took them to get there, etc - you're talking about one snapshot in time. It's a lot like the stock market, and just like the market is in the middle of a bull run, the airlines are in a huge hiring phase that's positively affecting everyone's situation. Nobody knows when it'll end, but just like the market, only a fool believes it'll *never* end.

This industry is littered with pilots that chased the big money and great schedule, just to end up making barely more than six figures at a regional for the entirety of their careers - for no reason other than their timing was wrong.

If you can go into it with your eyes open to the idea that a certain amount of what you're doing is rolling the dice, I think you'll be better off.
 
That was quite a rant, hindsight. Not sure where you got the idea that I'm somehow giving life advice based on *my* situation. A father came on here asking whether it'd be possible for his kid to have a un-f***ked family life as a pilot, and I responded in the affirmative. I'm glad you have 45 airline friends. So do I, and I also fly with a different airline pilot every week. Almost all have a wife and kids. Most talk to me about the decisions they make to make it work, and my response merely reflected what I've learned.

I feel like we're commonly our own worst enemy when it comes to dorking up our home life. I think an unneccesarily high amount of the blame goes to the profession itself. If that makes me a koolaid guy, then so be it. I feel like I've been pretty even handed about my job on this board. Hell, I even once told James that if I weren't such a city slicker and cool with Alaska, he'd have my resume tomorrow. ;)

And hey, as far as spear chucking, re-read the thread. You cast the first stone before any of the airline guys you decided to call to the carpet made a comment about the family aspects of the job.

Yeah, I didn't mean to single ya out. I was using you, jordan and jonesy as examples of a demographic that doesn't have the decision making matrix that a head of household with young children has. I also want to make it clear that I DO think your responses to the thread have indeed been even-keeled; I have zero quarrel with your position. My apologies if it came off as though I was assigning you ownership of the argument, I know you were just positing your observations as an airline guy to the OP. No hard feelings brother.

You also touch on a very important aspect of the career and that is, the effect timing has on these outcomes. It is very difficult to provide concrete advice when there is so much variability in outcome at no fault of the aspirant. This however, can burn families, badly. To me, that IS a baked-in fault on the part of the industry. I cannot help but think that has to, at a minimum, be acknowledged, otherwise people feel misled because there's an inherent optimism bias in assuming there cannot possibly be that much variance in outcomes if "you do the right things". Yet again, Caveat emptor seems like reasonable advice to offer, tired platitude as it may be.
 
No hard feelings brother.

And none here either, man. I respect your position on this, and don't disagree. I spent a good potion of my 2.5 hour flight to ATL thinking about what you said, and some of that while p!ssed off that you were in my head enough to even be thinking about it. ;) None of that would have been the case had you not said things that didn't ring true.*

EDIT: It's St. Patricks's day and I'm drinking with my crew in ATL, and there are so many negatives in that sentence that my drunk ass can't unwind it. You know what I mean! :D
 
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Look, if you work for one of the big four major 121 carriers and you're not happy there's just something WRONG with you. You're probably one of those people that are just never happy OR you've never had to work a REAL job.
 
Look, if you work for one of the big four major 121 carriers and you're not happy there's just something WRONG with you. You're probably one of those people that are just never happy OR you've never had to work a REAL job.

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Stuff's about the get good in here! BTW, talk about fitting. Buddy of mine (Viper/Hornet guy) just called to tell me he's thinking about quitting a US3 job. For the record, I told him to sleep on it. I think we must all be drinking today...


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Somewhat related...

I worked with a guy that flew for PanAm, then they shut down. He also flew with Eastern, and they shut down. Midwest was another company he flew for, and they shut down. The contract that we worked on together got shut down. I think there was another company in there as well, that got shut down.

Poor guy is nice as can be but just has some serious bad luck. At least we both went to different contracts with no negative effects on us. We all gave him crap for it anyway!!
 
I disagree. The reason for getting a degree in something else is that every pilot will eventually stop flying. If you are lucky then it will happen when you retire. But most pilots will stop flying prior to retirement due to developing medical issues which make them ineligible for a first class medical. Having a degree in something else is a fallback if that happens in the first few years. Business or Management are good choices because once you have those, you can very easily transition to working for an airline instead of flying for them.

My degree is in Computer Science. Might as well be underwater basket weaving for all the good it would do me if I found out I couldn't fly any longer. In the long run it seems like the degree makes less of a difference. After 10+ years of flying full time you probably aren't good at whatever your non-aviation degree is so it doesn't matter. In the short term, having a non-aviation degree might help. If you start down the pilot road for a year or two with a non-aviation degree and have a major change (I.e. find out you have some medical issue, you wake up one day and hate the job or some other circumstance) that causes you to leave the profession you will likely be in better shape than if you had an aviation degree. Like many things in aviation - it depends. IMHO.
 
My degree is in Computer Science. Might as well be underwater basket weaving for all the good it would do me if I found out I couldn't fly any longer. In the long run it seems like the degree makes less of a difference. After 10+ years of flying full time you probably aren't good at whatever your non-aviation degree is so it doesn't matter. In the short term, having a non-aviation degree might help. If you start down the pilot road for a year or two with a non-aviation degree and have a major change (I.e. find out you have some medical issue, you wake up one day and hate the job or some other circumstance) that causes you to leave the profession you will likely be in better shape than if you had an aviation degree. Like many things in aviation - it depends. IMHO.
This. My degree is in Landscape Architecture, and was probably worthless 5 years after I got it. I agree with EvilEagle in that a degree other than aviation would be an advantage if you either medically disqualify, or decide that it's not for you within a few years, but after that, it doesn't matter much. I know people with engineering degrees who didn't become engineers after they were furloughed, because they found out they had been away from the industry too long. On the other hand, I don't think I would have gotten a degree in Aviation if I had to do it over, even though I spent virtually my whole career in aviation. I'm one of those people who thinks that it's good to have a well-rounded education and to be exposed to other things besides the way you plan to earn your money.
 
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