Fear of fall?

Take your jacket off in the airplane. When I'm over heated I get sick quickly. +1 for the Cherokee, I bet the low wing will solve your issues.
 
I've always had a problem with heights or looking over the edge. OTOH, no problem whatever in a plane. I don't care if the wings are high or low as long as they stay on the plane.
 
Start with IFR training first. Under the hood you won't see anything outside. What you can't see can't hurt you.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Fear of heights and/or fear of falling from heights is actually a very common phobia in the aviation community. I think there was a thread polling pilots on here once about it. Heights make my stomach do flips, but I'm not scared of them so much as the idea of falling from them or being pushed. I can't stand at the edge of a building or along the railing of a lighthouse, but I can fly a plane without issue. Flying is different and when I'm in a plane I don't have those fears.
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Same here. I don't like being on top of my one-story house, yet I'll hang out of an airplane. I was flying in an open-cockpit plane once and flew by a water tower. Suddenly I had a sense of just how high I was and I guess my mind decided if I fell from that height I would die. I don't do that anymore!
 
Thanks all for the vote of confidence. @RotorDude, I actually do quite well if I am just gazing at the G1000. albeit there is so much going on there and a zillion buttons to push around, the thought of falling out doesn't kick in. but again, VFR .. I am screwed.. I might just be better at IFR or night flights .. wondering if I can find someone to take me for a checkride at night :cool:

I will just keep flying till I get used to the bumpy rides, feeling of dropping dead from 4k feet, wing falling off the plane, stalling and hitting the ground in a ball of flames and everything in between. wish they had a low wing plane...
 
avongil said:
Take your jacket off in the airplane. When I'm over heated I get sick quickly. +1 for the Cherokee, I bet the low wing will solve your issues.
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If it's cold out, it's better to turn down the cabin heat. Best to be dressed for the environs if you have to go down.

I'm also get queasy looking over a drop but never had a problem looking down from a plane. I did do a tandem skydive once. It wasn't really the heights that got me but rather the "put your feet outside the aircraft" I thought was odd. Once in freefall it was kind of cool.
 
flyingron said:
If it's cold out, it's better to turn down the cabin heat. Best to be dressed for the environs if you have to go down.

I'm also get queasy looking over a drop but never had a problem looking down from a plane. I did do a tandem skydive once. It wasn't really the heights that got me but rather the "put your feet outside the aircraft" I thought was odd. Once in freefall it was kind of cool.
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same here. on my tandem I was quite comfortable knowing that I am tied to a guy with over 2k jumps and he is going to land since he has a vested interest. then I took a static line course and it went fine till I went up in Cessna, they asked me to get out, hang from the strut and then let go.... yeah I wasn't going to do that at 3k feet. I chickened out and rode the plane back down. guess that memory kicks in everytime I am taking a turn and the fact the I am not actually wearing a chute.

I have no problem looking straight down in a turn or during a straight and level flight. its the bumps and the turns that is getting to me and not letting me progress...
 
When I was flight instructing, I had a student that was a psychiatrist. I told him I was ok at heights, but getting close to a window or edge of a tall structure and I would feel some kind of force that seemed to pull me to the edge. I was fine in a plane.

He told me I did not have a fear of heights, but instead I had a fear of falling. He told me I felt safe in a plane because I knew I was secure where as next to a window in a tall building I did not feel secure.
 
It's not the fall the scares me, it's the abrupt stop at the end. Facing my recent engine out, I headed for my emergency field and hoped that this wasn't going to hurt.
 
flyingron said:
It's not the fall the scares me, it's the abrupt stop at the end. Facing my recent engine out, I headed for my emergency field and hoped that this wasn't going to hurt.
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I used to race cars, and when I saw I was going to hit something, I said the same thing as I tucked my hands under the shoulder harness.
 
I trained in a high wing and now own a low wing; haven't noticed much difference in them (other than much better performance now!). I know several pilots with fear of heights, but I'm not one of them. Spent time on the highest step below the top of my gorilla ladder, working on the soffit of my house, last week. The ladder was on the deck, the back yard falls off pretty steeply, and I have 10' ceilings indoors.

As far as bumps go, you'll get used to them over time. I recently had my weather briefing while my wife was driving us to the airport. Made notes using my kneeboard, and found that it's much, much easier to write on the kneeboard while flying the plane than while riding shotgun in a car in a state highway! But those bumps are okay . . . The air is generally smoother in the morning and evening. Now that summer is over,MIT should be calmer aloft, there is much less solar hearing to roil the air.
 
RotorDude said:
Start with IFR training first. Under the hood you won't see anything outside. What you can't see can't hurt you.
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My private instructor told me to turn the landing lights off, if I don't like what I see during an off-field night landing....

I don't get nervous in planes unless I'm in turbulence over the ocean. I know it's a completely irrational fear. However, I can still tell I'm slightly uncomfortable.
 
ARFlyer said:
I don't get nervous in planes unless I'm in turbulence over the ocean. I know it's a completely irrational fear. However, I can still tell I'm slightly uncomfortable.
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I only get nervous in a plane if I am not the one flying.
 
Everyone has some level of fear to overcome. That is the joy in flying - for me - overcoming that fear and making progress. One day soon you'll be up there by yourself like it's no big deal, and think "holy ****, I'm a pilot!"

I don't have the same type of fear as you, but I have definitely felt that level of fear. For me, I get real tense during landings sometimes.
 
...I have a fear of fall from great heights and that's right now taking a toll on me.
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You're gonna love stalls. :)

As others said the fear of falling is not uncommon. I fly around mountains and 10,000+ feet in a 172 sometimes gets to me as well.

When flying with your CFI, you can ask him if he would demonstrate a no power landing.
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This is a really good idea. Even without power an airplane will not "fall" out of the sky. Glide out of the sky, yes but fall, no.
 
ircphoenix said:
I'm tellin' ya... try engine out procedures. Then when you're brave enough, falling leaf stalls. Once your brain understands that the plane will carry you to safety, everything else will sort itself out.
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As long as the fear is based on the unknown, this will work fine. If it's something else, though, it might be counterproductive.

I think most people who have never been in a light aircraft before get shocked at how far they can glide. After all, the movies always show an immediate engine overspeed whine and death spiral when the engine quits. Real life is substantially more boring without the fan spinning up front. It gets REALLY boring in a glider.
 
RobertSubnet said:
You're gonna love stalls. :)
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Stalls, introduced correctly to timid or fearful students, need not be anything other than a very calm transition between gliding flight, and a gentle stall and recovery.

Kerschner talks about this in his teaching books, many CFIs do like physical sensations and introduce stalls in a way that frightens people who have weird expectations of what an aerodynamic stall really is (movies, pop culture, images of two sweating pilots straining at control wheels for minutes only to "save the day" at the last moment"), or the outcome.

The introduction in a heavy handed "yank and bank" way isn't polite behavior nor necessary, nor does it create the correct building block, "I'm able to recover this easily and maintain complete control of the aircraft" vs "this scares the hell out of me and feels abnormal" for a timid or frightened student.

For the OP, I think understanding completely and academically (your "head" not your "feelings") can assist greatly with your fear. It's very hard to assist with this from afar, but allow me to share two videos from an online CFI "personality" known as FlightChops about a friend of his he wanted to help overcome a total fear of flying.

Obviously fear of falling isn't exactly the same as fear of flying but often they're based in similar base instinctual fears (fear of falling, fear of loss of control, fear of injury or death) so I think you might emotionally relate a bit with the lady in these two videos. If not, and I'm off base, I don't think either video will hurt in regards to your fears and may help.

First video, CFI does what a lot of CFIs would probably do, and it's probably backwards. He takes his friend flying on the very nicest evening he can, thinking a nice smooth flight will help. What he learns instead is that her fears are triggered by very small sensations and are fairly deeply rooted. The flight worries her more than perhaps if she hadn't taken it.


The second video is a better approach -- he takes her to another (female) CFI (change up the "face" that's teaching... he accidentally scared her, start fresh with a new instructor and face taking time to teach her) who does have access to a good simulator (no chance at all of falling or being hurt -- intrinsically safe, but will still give all of the major sensations of flight especially visual) and they work through the academics first and she explains it all in very simple and direct guidance that gives the fearful person a sense of complete control over the new environment she's placed in.


Her confidence goes up so dramatically that even a casual observer can see it in the second video.

It is my belief (as an absolutely brand spanking new and green flight instructor) that there is usually a way to work from the known toward the unknown, which is usually the real deepest innate creator of fear in anyone learning anything new, especially something that frightens them a bit. But I think you need to find the instructor who's motivated to help with your fear and can also work to teach the building blocks of fixed wing aerodynamics, how the wing and aircraft behave in the air, how EXACTLY the pilot controls this movement and action, and why it happens with a bit of knowledge -- before spending tons of time in an airplane doing things that frighten you deeply.

This gives you something to fall back on when the engine is turning, you're headed up into the sky, and your senses are overloaded and you're 90% mentally saturated long before the CFI just banks the airplane over into a Commercial Steep Turn and the physics push you downward via centrifugal force in the turn, into your seat at what feels like twice your normal weight... and... you're staring out the side window at terrain doing things you've never seen terrain do in a car, walking, running, anywhere.

Watch these and see if you like video number two's approach a little better.

And let me finish off this post with something that's true you can hold on to:

Any airplane you'd be flying in training is inherently very stable. Think of the paper airplanes maybe that you built as a kid and tossed off the second story balcony of a house to the living room or any high spot.

Given appropriate speed through the air, that airplane left alone completely with no one at the controls and with the engine at idle, still wants to fly in a downward direction toward the ground, generally in level flight or a spiral because of a little bank.

And here's the kicker for you to remember. By utilizing a little of that forward flying energy of the air flowing past the wing and all of the control surfaces, but especially the elevator... all a pilot needs to do to make a soft and safe arrival when the ground comes up to meet the airplane out that side window, is a tug on the elevator to point the nose a little higher. Total control. Instant gratification. Smooth touchdown on terra firma.

The Pilot In Command learns exactly how to control this arrival -- even though it's inevitable as the sun coming up every morning -- gravity always wins eventually -- the ARRIVAL is exactly as hard or soft and smooth as the Pilot In Command makes it. And if you're learning to fly, this is one of the goals of making you Pilot In Command. You... will be PIC the day you pass your checkride.

Take a look at these two videos and see what you think. Similar feelings or different?

I commend you sir on your willingness to share your fear here in public. You'll find there's many of us who share your fear of heights. Let's keep this conversation going and tell us what you think of the second video above.
 
@denverpilot first of all, THANK YOU for taking time out of your day and writing to me and everyone else who has chimed in. It really is a very welcoming feeling.

I have watched videos before and literally 100's of videos of flight training, however, I re-watched it again with a new perspective that you put in and it does make a lot of sense. when I watched it before, I didn't relate as much, now I do. when the CFI compares turbulence with water on a lake and a boat floating on it.. makes a lot of sense. when I am sitting on a boat, its bumpy, but I love it, may be because I can see and feel the water and when up in the air, there is nothing visual about it. i will keep the comparison in mind when i go up next. i was supposed to go up in about an hour, but a ceiling of 2100 but a big dent in it:(

I also got the stick and the rudder based on one of the recommendations on this thread and that kinda put the whole how wings fly in a completely different perspective. all those mind boggling theories are great in paper and may be awesome for an engineer who is designing the wing, but for a pilot, I think the way its defined in stick and the rudder makes a lot more sense, at least to me it does.

my mission for today was to take off (which i plan to do tomorrow WX permitting), i have done it before in a discovery flight last year and when the CFI said pull the yoke, i did and took off. now its little different because of my brain is crammed with angle of attack and departure stall:( .. lets see how i do tomorrow and i will keep this thread updated.

thanks again
 
WannFly said:
@denverpilot first of all, THANK YOU for taking time out of your day and writing to me and everyone else who has chimed in. It really is a very welcoming feeling.

I have watched videos before and literally 100's of videos of flight training, however, I re-watched it again with a new perspective that you put in and it does make a lot of sense. when I watched it before, I didn't relate as much, now I do. when the CFI compares turbulence with water on a lake and a boat floating on it.. makes a lot of sense. when I am sitting on a boat, its bumpy, but I love it, may be because I can see and feel the water and when up in the air, there is nothing visual about it. i will keep the comparison in mind when i go up next. i was supposed to go up in about an hour, but a ceiling of 2100 but a big dent in it:(

I also got the stick and the rudder based on one of the recommendations on this thread and that kinda put the whole how wings fly in a completely different perspective. all those mind boggling theories are great in paper and may be awesome for an engineer who is designing the wing, but for a pilot, I think the way its defined in stick and the rudder makes a lot more sense, at least to me it does.

my mission for today was to take off (which i plan to do tomorrow WX permitting), i have done it before in a discovery flight last year and when the CFI said pull the yoke, i did and took off. now its little different because of my brain is crammed with angle of attack and departure stall:( .. lets see how i do tomorrow and i will keep this thread updated.

thanks again
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You're welcome. Also... on takeoff keep this in mind... think angle of attack and where you want the airplane to go... you're in charge... point it where you want it to go, and it'll go there.

Don't worry so much about "departure stall"... or any kind of stall for that matter. Your CFI is literally there to keep you safe from that, while you learn to be PIC ... and he won't let you do something dangerous to either one of you while you get a feel for piloting the aircraft through the air.

Just pull enough back pressure to put the cowl edge on the horizon or thereabouts (you'll get the feel for how much... that's what you're working on) and the wing will meet the relative air at a reasonable angle and you'll go up.

If you pull too much, your CFI will gently correct it.

After you have the feel of how much pressure it requires by hand, he or she will introduce the concept of trim use.

Obviously to come back to the airport you'll have to turn. Turning is just exchanging some of the upward lift you just created by pointing the nose up, for sideways lift. The airplane had enough power to climb to pattern altitude so now you have excess power available above what's needed for holding altitude and for the turn. The airplane will not fall out of the sky as long as it has airspeed.

Or as a wise old instructor around here says, "Airspeed is life. Altitude is life insurance!"

Hopefully your ceilings allow you to go up -- they'll talk to you about weather and decision making today if not! :) Always stuff to learn!
 
Do you have these fears if you are in an airliner, or if someone else is flying a GA plane with you in it? Determine if it is a fear of falling, or a fear that you will fail to keep you from falling.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Do you have these fears if you are in an airliner, or if someone else is flying a GA plane with you in it? Determine if it is a fear of falling, or a fear that you will fail to keep you from falling.
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That's great question... when I am in an airliner, I have no problem. I am bored to death because there is nothing to do apart from sitting in a crammed seat for hours (I am 6'2 and the airliners seems to be in some sort of race to minimize the leg space), but the fear of fall / flying doesn't kick in. When my CFI is taking off / landing, its a little uncomfortable since I can feel every bump in the air but I am confident that she would land me. if she is taking a steep turn (my definition - < 30 degrees) I get all tensed up and hold on to something with a death grip. I am fully aware that holding on to something doesn't help a bit, I sill do. looking straight down doesn't bother me in straight and level flight. its only the turns and I guess I should get a diaper for the stall training :d
 
So you have about 4 hours right? Everyone is different but what you're experiencing is normal. Is your CFI allowing you to make turns? Just allow yourself to lean slightly as you roll in and out of a turn. Don't resist the turn by leaning in the opposite direction of the turn. Your CFI won't let you fall so after a few more flights you should start to become more comfortable.
 
mscard88 said:
So you have about 4 hours right? Everyone is different but what you're experiencing is normal. Is your CFI allowing you to make turns? Just allow yourself to lean slightly as you roll in and out of a turn. Don't resist the turn by leaning in the opposite direction of the turn. Your CFI won't let you fall so after a few more flights you should start to become more comfortable.
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yeah I have 4 hrs and yes my CFI lets me turn, in fact she has told me a couple of times that its a very coordinated smooth turn, may be to make me feel better, or may be it was, I make sure the ball is at the center which brings me to another problem of fixating on the instruments and G1000 has too many shiny things to look at. the max turn I have gotten into is may be 12-14 degrees, which was much better than the day before. everyday I go up there and get into a mission of turning may be 2 degrees more that the last day
the interesting part is, its not that I am fearful of going to the airport, I look forward my flight classes and right now watching weather like a hawk because I am supposed to fly in about 4 hours from now and its OVC019 :(
I will try what you suggested today if I can get up there.
 
G1000! At this point you should be develeloping outside visual references for turns and everything else. That might make you more comfortable.
 
mscard88 said:
G1000! At this point you should be develeloping outside visual references for turns and everything else. That might make you more comfortable.
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Yeah, if you're like a LOT of us you played a lot of flight sims before deciding to chase the dream. It'll make you tend to look inside. Definitely look outside. The real horizon is way better than anything you'll see on the panel. Plus, traffic. Not much of that in the sim! :)
 
Yeah I have to consciously develop that habit. Would have been a lot more easier in a 6 pack trainer, but all these guys have is 430 or 1000

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
Yeah I have to consciously develop that habit. Would have been a lot more easier in a 6 pack trainer, but all these guys have is 430 or 1000
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I had an instructor throw his jacket over a six pack panel once long long ago and say, "Now fly the plane without all that stuff." :)

Doesn't really matter if it's six pack or LCD... VFR flight is about looking outside. :)

One instructor of mine puts it this way to people, VFR:

"Nothing on that panel will kill you. Another airplane hitting us will ruin your whole day. Think we should look in here or outside?" :) (Coined before the days of traffic systems on the panel, but you get the idea. Heh.)

You'll fly better if you look out there, too... I promise! ;)
 
Yeah I am going start that, no flying today,... hopefully tomorrow. One more thing, may sound incredibly stupid, but the reason I am climbing at 5 degrees is I thought the more I pitch, the more I get to the critical AOA. Some reading told me how stupid I was... light bulb!!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
WannFly said:
Yeah I am going start that, no flying today,... hopefully tomorrow. One more thing, may sound incredibly stupid, but the reason I am climbing at 5 degrees is I thought the more I pitch, the more I get to the critical AOA. Some reading told me how stupid I was... light bulb!!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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Where's your instructor on all this confusion? Have you discussed any of this with him/her?
 
Not yet, I am going to talk to her tomorrow. I was hoping they would proactively cover these, but since I am doing king school ground school as recommended by them, guess they are waiting for me to speak up

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WannFly said:
Not yet, I am going to talk to her tomorrow. I was hoping they would proactively cover these, but since I am doing king school ground school as recommended by them, guess they are waiting for me to speak up

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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How many lessons have you taken? Some of this stuff just comes along naturally in a specific order so you may not have gotten to the "official" lessons on some things yet, in any particular syllabus.

But yes! Ask questions! It will always help your instructor know what you're thinking and understanding and where they need to give more guidance if you're actively engaged in questioning and learning.

Plus, the King stuff is fine, but any good instructor needs to confirm your knowledge and look for any weak areas (and praise you for the strong areas) in knowledge.

The Kings are nice people but they can't sign you off to solo or later take the Private checkride. (Grin...) Expect as you go on, that your instructor will start to add ground school/extra briefing time needed throughout the course of study, leading up to your certificate.

If you show up prepared, it'll be less time. If you're missing something or not studying, they MUST cover it and confirm you know your stuff, or they can't sign off...
 
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