FBO will not give me my plane back

Clip4 said:
Actually LEOs do not arbitrate civil disputes, the courts do. Someone going to jail for trespass and disorderly conduct would be the likely result.
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How is waiting for someone to give you the keys to your airplane disorderly conduct and how can you be trespassing on a public airport that you flew into? The dispute for the courts to settle is the $1200 bill, not the question of whether or not the FBO has the right to impound the airplane - they don’t unless they have a lien and even then I doubt it.
 
TommyG said:
That is the whole point of a discussion. Opposing views and opinions. Apparently you want everyone to just be on the same page and agree.
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What fun would that be? ;)
 
FormerHangie said:
It's extremely unlikely that anyone would go to a jury trial over that small amount of money.
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How about a couple million in punitive damages, stop this from happening again.
 
PaulS said:
Never fear, the troll police are here.

gun-waistband-tattoo.jpg
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"You're prostituting yourself out for cheeseburgers again aren't you, Randy?"
"A man's gotta eat!"

Nauga,
and Steve French
 
Back in the ‘80s I put a ton of gas on a G-1 belonging to Motley Crew... when their credit card was denied I locked it in a hangar until they came up with the dough...

As for the new owner, How successful will he be by sowing ill-will with his customers... Is he looking to get back his investment literally overnight with one customer...LOL
 
Zeldman said:
Simple. Call the police and report a stolen plane.
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Of course, technically this is conversion, since he apparently left the plane in their care. Though perhaps not even that if they haven’t used it for anything else or sold it.

I agree, legally this likely turns on whether the rates were posted and if you can find the person who told you no fees and get them to agree they said that.

It seems awfully high per day, but I guess depends on the type of plane.
 
Silvaire said:
How is waiting for someone to give you the keys to your airplane disorderly conduct and how can you be trespassing on a public airport that you flew into? The dispute for the courts to settle is the $1200 bill, not the question of whether or not the FBO has the right to impound the airplane - they don’t unless they have a lien and even then I doubt it.
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It woould when you argue and refuse to remove yourself from the property when they tell you to do so. You can easily be convicted of trespassing on public property. But the building rented or owned by an FBO isn’t public property.
 
Bobanna said:
Voluntary discussion and input towards resolving an unusual situation absent the relative facts and issues is prima fascia being "had." The spectrum of solutions, along with the knowledge gained, made it worthwhile (for a while). Over and out.
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You may feel "had." I don't.
 
Hard to imagine this scenario is as-OP presented it. If I am a 2-day-old FBO owner, I'm probably not going to start out kicking my customers in the bonch and extorting their aircraft.

Then again, FBO shenanigans surprise me now and again with the depths they'll plumb. :D

If I were in OP's shoes, and the story is true, there is a source of leverage somewhere to be found and applied. If this is an airport of any size, then this FBO pays rent to a Master Leaseholder or to Airport Management. Assuming OP is transient, and has no "hey I buy gas here all the time" story to lean on, then maybe a word with the landlord or airport manager to request his help arbitrating is warranted. Basically, you need friends who can look the FBO in the eye.

If this is one of those Podunk 'Airport n Gas n Such' places that seem to litter the midwest, he's probably screwed, and Bubba the new FBO manager / Airport Manager / Lineman / A&P is going to get paid somehow. He's probably cousins of the former FBO manager. Maybe even double cousins. Probably related to the judge, the sheriff, and the only lawyer in town too. Best bet? Write the plane off as lost, buy another one, and stop leaving it at little ****burg airports with no services and 2 weeks' free parking.

It's not a classy business. I don't miss running one. Nobody ever left a plane on my ramp for 2 weeks, but I'd have likely just towed it onto the city tiedowns and made it their problem, rather than hide the thing and hope to score cash money millions.

$0.02.
 
Clip4 said:
It woould when you argue and refuse to remove yourself from the property when they tell you to do so. You can easily be convicted of trespassing on public property. But the building rented or owned by an FBO isn’t public property.
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Well they can’t physically remove you or assault you so they’d have to call the police at which point you simply explain that they won’t give you your airplane and as soon as they do you’ll gladly leave in it. Bottom line is they can sue you for the $1200 but they can’t keep your airplane.
 
Silvaire said:
Well they can’t physically remove you or assault you so they’d have to call the police at which point you simply explain that they won’t give you your airplane and as soon as they do you’ll gladly leave in it. Bottom line is they can sue you for the $1200 but they can’t keep your airplane.
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No different than not paying at a parking garage. All the police are going to do is tell you to pay and leave with your plane or don’t pay and leave without your plane, or leave in handcuffs without your plane.

I am going to call BS on the OP’s story.
 
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Palmpilot said:
You may feel "had." I don't.
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We're talking about a plane that does not exist being locked in hangar that does not exist by an FBO that does not exist. So yeah, I feel a little had. I'm sure that makes our drive-by troll smile. So be it. He's the one stuck in his pathetic little life where posing as someone you're not on the internet passes as an enjoyable hobby so jokes on him in the end.

On another level I think discussing hypotheticals and what-ifs can be a healthy and constructive exercise. But I believe the quality is better and benefit is greater when those discussions are established as being hypothetical up front. There might still be benefit in the end in situations like this but I would argue there isn't.
 
The problem here is the cost of winning in litigation. You need to speak with a local attorney and find out if a consumer law exists that allows for the recovery of attorney fees in certain cases. You can also check with your state's Attorney General Consumer affairs office and ask for their assistance. The FBO has no legal basis to hold the plane. A & P's have that right when they've done work on the aircraft, but not the FBO. I believe you have valid legal claims but my guess is most attorneys will want $2500 retainer or more to start the case. The FBO will also be required to hire an attorney. If I were representing you I look at claims for conversion, breach of contract, bad faith, unfair business practice etc. (depends on your state laws) and seek an immediate court order for the release of the aircraft. The court would likely require the $1200 be paid into the court pending resolution. If. in fact, the FBO was sold two days after you left your plane there I would argue the "verbal contract" was not assumable. The FBO might argue that they were not in fact bound by the original terms and established new terms after they became owner - but then they would not have a valid contract. There's enough here that someone might tale the case. Self help- such as issuing check and cancelling, causing a dispute at the FBO with police involved, etc., will not help and will likely make things worse. Other option is pay the bill, write the whole experience off, and notify the AG's office. Good luck.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
We're talking about a plane that does not exist being locked in hangar that does not exist by an FBO that does not exist. So yeah, I feel a little had. I'm sure that makes our drive-by troll smile. So be it. He's the one stuck in his pathetic little life where posing as someone you're not on the internet passes as an enjoyable hobby so jokes on him in the end.

On another level I think discussing hypotheticals and what-ifs can be a healthy and constructive exercise. But I believe the quality is better and benefit is greater when those discussions are established as being hypothetical up front. There might still be benefit in the end in situations like this but I would argue there isn't.
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For me, the solution to thinking that someone is telling a tall tale is to not care.
 
It’s unclear why this is any different than a parking boot, or a tow company refusing to give you your car until you pay.
 
Kritchlow said:
It’s unclear why this is any different than a parking boot, or a tow company refusing to give you your car until you pay.
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Because tow trucks are operating under the color of law for a violation of state or local traffic laws. This is a contract dispute. They're continued holding of the aircraft is not in furtherance of their contract - it's a punitive measure.


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Tommar98 said:
Because tow trucks are operating under the color of law for a violation of state or local traffic laws. This is a contract dispute. They're continued holding of the aircraft is not in furtherance of their contract - it's a punitive measure.


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Not so sure that’s always the case. My car was towed from a private lot and they wouldn’t give me my car.
 
Tommar98 said:
Because tow trucks are operating under the color of law for a violation of state or local traffic laws. This is a contract dispute. They're continued holding of the aircraft is not in furtherance of their contract - it's a punitive measure.
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Drive your car in to a tow yard and tell them you will be back in two weeks and see if they release your car without paying storage.
 
Clip4 said:
Drive your car in to a tow yard and tell them you will be back in two weeks and see if they release your car without paying storage.
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I don't disagree with that. The OP said he had an understanding of costs to leave it there and not in a hanger. Private lots post that violators will be towed. I do find the story sketchy since (1) I can't imagine a plane owner leaving plane for 2 weeks at FBO and not have a clear written (even email) confirmation on what was happening; (2) that said plane owner doesn't have $1200 to get it released. Even though that would be an excessive fee. That's equal to a $2400/month hanger fee. Something is up with this scenario.


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Tommar98 said:
I don't disagree with that. The OP said he had an understanding of costs to leave it there and not in a hanger. Private lots post that violators will be towed. I do find the story sketchy since (1) I can't imagine a plane owner leaving plane for 2 weeks at FBO and not have a clear written (even email) confirmation on what was happening; (2) that said plane owner doesn't have $1200 to get it released. Even though that would be an excessive fee. That's equal to a $2400/month hanger fee. Something is up with this scenario.
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The problem with the OPs post is vocabulary. He states he was told there were no parking or ramp fees and tosses out the fact he bought fuel, None of the terms are used for 2 week storage. If he had stated he was to receive free tie down for two weeks that might be different, but if he was where hangar space is $75 a night, tie down is never free.
 
Clip4 said:
The problem with the OPs post is vocabulary.
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The problem with the OP's post is that he ran in here, dropped a troll post and then hasn't been around in last 2 days to respond to people. Therefore everyone is going wild with assumptions, each getting more extreme than the last.

There is a lack of specificity in the story which makes me say that it isn't a real situation. If it were, then we'd have an update, a location and answers to a lot of questions.
 
Clip4 said:
The problem with the OPs post is vocabulary. He states he was told there were no parking or ramp fees and tosses out the fact he bought fuel, None of the terms are used for 2 week storage. If he had stated he was to receive free tie down for two weeks that might be different, but if he was where hangar space is $75 a night, tie down is never free.
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The OP actually did say how long he intended to leave his aircraft parked at the FBO, or he insinuated the duration: "I recently took my plane and parked it at an FBO. It has been there for about two weeks. When I left it there, I left my name, number, and email. I also bought fuel. I was told that there were no ramp fees or parking fees. I was told this by their management.

Now I come back as planned..." This could very well mean that it was *HIS* plan, and was not communicated to the FBO, however, it also reads as though he had conveyed the two week turnaround to the FBO at the time he parked, and is thus why he is so put out by their inhospitable treatment.
 
bflynn said:
There is a lack of specificity in the story which makes me say that it isn't a real situation. If it were, then we'd have an update, a location and answers to a lot of questions.
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You're making a lot of assumptions there.
 
If he left his aircraft at an FBO, AND the FBO knew of his intent to leave the aircraft parked there for two weeks, AND the FBO told him no fees... then holding his plane for ransom in a hangar is tantamount to embezzlement, which is a crime... even under new management. And 1200 bucks would be pretty damn exorbitant almost anywhere in the country other than a BIG airport (Or Signature at literally anywhere).

However, IF this situation in fact occurred, the way it most likely went down was, "Good morning sir, what can we do for you today?" Can you fill up the plane please? "Absolutely sir! Do you need anything else?" Oh, I was just wondering what your parking fee is. "Actually the parking fee [implied today] is waived with your fuel purchase." Awesome! Thanks! *leaves for two weeks*

Then two weeks later the FBO is wondering where the hell the idiot is that left his plane parked on their ramp for two weeks, since almost nobody flies in for TWO WEEKS to an FBO. Then he shows up and management, unaware of the specifics of the previous conversation, decides "screw you buddy. We'll teach you to try to game the system." Which, fine. But can't hold the plane ransom for a contract dispute in a lot of states without a lien. So they'd still be in the wrong for holding the plane, and you'd have grounds for a civil case.

But my money is that this situation a) never happened or b) happened VERY differently than the OP suggests.
 
TL;DR. Did he get the Bo' or Cirrrussss?

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teejayevans said:
Because of our speed we get there first, so first come, first served ;-)
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I've had some really fun times on frequency with other planes being told things like "There's a Mooney at your 6 o'clock and two miles with a 60-knot overtake". :D

My favorite had to be an RJ. Man, was he ****ed. :rofl: "Skywest 1234, traffic is a Mooney, 2 o'clock and 4 miles, you'll be number two behind him." He complained, and after a short exchange the controller said "Sorry, you're not going to beat him here." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
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