Fatal Mass. Gyroplane Crash, 12/4

It appears to me that the propeller is missing one of its blades.

SPECULATION ALERT! It's possible that a blade separated from the propeller, hitting one of the main rotor blades, causing the loss of control and resultant crash.
 
From another forum, from the N number it appears to be an Autogyro Cavalon with a Rotax 915. That’s a lot of engine for a gyro that size and my guess is what happens most commonly: a blade flap, where the gyro is going forward too fast for the rotor RPM, which causes the advancing (right) side to get substantially more lift than the retreating (left) side. That’s caused most typically by not having and keeping the stick all the way back on takeoff. Because of the 915’s power, it’s easier to get into that situation, especially if someone is rushed.

Pure speculation at this point but that’s hands down the most common cause for this scenario. And the pusher prop can get hit by the rotor, breaking it off.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
From another forum, from the N number it appears to be an Autogyro Cavalon with a Rotax 915. That’s a lot of engine for a gyro that size and my guess is what happens most commonly: a blade flap, where the gyro is going forward too fast for the rotor RPM, which causes the advancing (right) side to get substantially more lift than the retreating (left) side. That’s caused most typically by not having and keeping the stick all the way back on takeoff. Because of the 915’s power, it’s easier to get into that situation, especially if someone is rushed.

Pure speculation at this point but that’s hands down the most common cause for this scenario. And the pusher prop can get hit by the rotor, breaking it off.
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So similar to retreating blade stall in a powered rotor. Those things have a rotor tach, and certain procedures are pounded into your head in training (such as stick position.)
I don't think it's easy or even possible to strike the pusher prop on the ground, I'll have to look, could be a rotor strike, or worse, as someone has speculated. I looked long and hard at one of these, but couldn't justify it even with my wildest rationalizations.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
So similar to retreating blade stall in a powered rotor. Those things have a rotor tach, and certain procedures are pounded into your head in training (such as stick position.)
I don't think it's easy or even possible to strike the pusher prop on the ground, I'll have to look, could be a rotor strike, or worse, as someone has speculated. I looked long and hard at one of these, but couldn't justify it even with my wildest rationalizations.
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It’s definitely possible to hit the prop with the rotor on the ground. I’d even say “common”, in retreating blade stalls, since the spinning rotor hits its teeter stops vertically and the blade flexes up and down a LOT because the rotor is spinning too slowly to keep its rigidity under the circumstances.

You’re absolutely right about getting rotor RPM drilled into us. But many pilots are older and either transitioning from fixed wing or have never flown before, so either old habits kick in from FW and/or they get distracted and no habits kick in.

The gyro design plays a big part, too. As with most, the Autogyros have an articulated drive system for the prerotator, which is very limited re how far back the stick can be pulled. They get on the runways then prerotate, which takes 30 seconds or so. If you get rushed because someone is landing (as I BELIEVE was happening here, from what I’ve heard), things get rushed, the rotor isn’t spun up enough and/or the stick isn’t pulled back before the takeoff roll. With that 915, rather than starting with partial power until the nosewheel comes up and/or you see RRPM rising, if someone guns it to get out of the way for traffic, the outcome looks like this scenario.

I own a Magni, which has a flex drive for the prerotator, and prerotate in the runup area. I never move from there with less RRPM than I could actually take off with. LOTS less risk of a blade flap with that design.
 
.. and here I am learning new interesting things on POA

Condolences to the family :(
 
Gyros look like fun and two of my friends fly them, but there are too many pilot induced failure modes leading to unrecoverable situations for me to be comfortable with them. At least in most airplanes, it's difficult to get into an unrecoverable situation unless you're too close to the ground.
 
You’re basically right, Dana, but far and away most problems with gyros happen during takeoff and landing - other than wire strikes or other similar things. Modern gyros - the “Eurotubs”, have designed out a lot of the risk from pilot-induced buffoonery once in the air. But takeoffs and landings, which aren’t all that difficult to actually master, have some golden rules which shouldn’t be broken.

But they’re a lot of fun. Like a motorcycle in the air (the open gyros) - and I wouldn’t dare ride a motorcycle!
 
Daleandee said:
Pretty neat but not for me. Here's a guy that's either really talented or got a few fries missing ...

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Sadly, too many gyro pilots, non-pilots, and FW pilots have that image of gyros. For consistency, what if this was the “common understanding” of FW pilots?

Flown intelligently, both gyros and FWs are safe - and both have risks.

BTW: the gyro in the video you shared is NOT a “modern” type with the risks engineered out.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Sadly, too many gyro pilots, non-pilots, and FW pilots have that image of gyros. For consistency, what if this was the “common understanding” of FW pilots?

Flown intelligently, both gyros and FWs are safe - and both have risks.

BTW: the gyro in the video you shared is NOT a “modern” type with the risks engineered out.
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I made no claim at all about the safety or not of gyrocopters ...
 
Llewtrah381 said:
But they’re a lot of fun. Like a motorcycle in the air (the open gyros) - and I wouldn’t dare ride a motorcycle!
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Gyroplane and Seaplane flights were the most fun I’ve had in aircraft. Not that they’re similar, just that they’re both a ton of fun.
 
skier said:
Gyroplane and Seaplane flights were the most fun I’ve had in aircraft. Not that they’re similar, just that they’re both a ton of fun.
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I live near a lake and one of the most fun things to do is cruise along above the water at about 10 feet. There are a few Icons and a floatplane or two around, so I need to keep my head on a swivel! I always wear an inflatable life vest when I do so and have extensively studied the area for wires, etc. Even my wife, who doesn’t really enjoy going in the gyro, enjoys that.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I live near a lake and one of the most fun things to do is cruise along above the water at about 10 feet. There are a few Icons and a floatplane or two around, so I need to keep my head on a swivel! I always wear an inflatable life vest when I do so and have extensively studied the area for wires, etc. Even my wife, who doesn’t really enjoy going in the gyro, enjoys that.
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I happen to have worked on design, certification and manufacturing setup of both an amphibian plane (Searey) and a gyroplane (AR-1). Also have designed trikes (weightshift control like the Monsoon and the Revo). Also fly Light Sport airplanes like the Cub and Apollo LSA and GA single engine land airplanes. All these are super fun but all of them require you to have respect for machines and their principles of flight. Just because you have 10,000 hours flying commercial airliners means absolutely nothing when you come to fly a trike or a gyroplane. If anything, some of your muscle memory needs to be reworked.

Gyroplanes today are quite safe. I cannot understand how people have rotor blade flaps on takeoffs (retreating blade stall by outrunning the rotor or too little rotor RPM for the acceleration or wind coming through the disc). It would have to be a complete disregard of any sequence in procedure or by keeping stick position forward instead of pulling back. You simply will have an extremely difficult time getting a rotor to flap if you did not do something that drastically wrong. Yet people do it. Mainly the post retired age people who generally are coming from high time in airplanes. Looks like these pilots never did any soft field takeoffs in taildraggers either because it is basically the same, build pre-rotator rotor RPM while standing and then stick full back and move forward till nose wheel starts to lift (rotor is now loaded).
 
The whole idea that 915 power is too much on a 2 seat gyroplane is really not true. It is too much power for a gyroplane rookie who doesn't know what they are doing and need to be saved from themselves (not a good definition for a pilot).
I am a sum total of 142 pounds and I fly a 915iS AR-1 and recently completed a 2000 mile trip. Great flying and zero issues and not getting rocked like in a light 2 seat airplane or a trike a big plus to be able to fly mid day at 1000 feet above the ground comfortably.

 
dibaf said:
I cannot understand how people have rotor blade flaps on takeoffs (retreating blade stall by outrunning the rotor or too little rotor RPM for the acceleration or wind coming through the disc). It would have to be a complete disregard of any sequence in procedure or by keeping stick position forward instead of pulling back. You simply will have an extremely difficult time getting a rotor to flap if you did not do something that drastically wrong. Yet people do it.
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“Complete disregard” is a bit harsh IMHO and, I’d say, rare. At least to me, that implies an intentional act of not following procedures.

By contrast, I think it’s much more common for gyro pilots to become distracted at a critical time and accidentally not follow procedures they unquestionably know they should.

This is a big reason I prefer the Magni, with its flex cable for prerotation. I always prerotate before getting on the runway (typically in the runup area) and never get on the runway with less than a “safe” rotor RPM. I can keep the prerotator engaged for a LONG time and can move the stick anywhere I want while it’s engaged. By contrast, virtually every other brand has a rigid prerotator drive that requires the pilot to release it before pulling the stick back prior to takeoff roll. That means most pilots of that arrangement start prerotating on the runway - holding up the runway for 15-30 seconds or so. And then they need to remember to first release the drive and then pull the stick back and then throttle up. If there’s other traffic in the pattern or a tower controller who gets antsy or some other distraction, the risk of the pilot failing to pull back before starting the roll goes up considerably - as does the risk of a blade flap.

Did the pilot make a mistake and break procedure? Absolutely. But the design of the gyro upped the risk for that.

This isn’t some esoteric risk: regrettably, it’s way more common than it should - could - be.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
“Complete disregard” is a bit harsh IMHO and, I’d say, rare. At least to me, that implies an intentional act of not following procedures.

By contrast, I think it’s much more common for gyro pilots to become distracted at a critical time and accidentally not follow procedures they unquestionably know they should.

This is a big reason I prefer the Magni, with its flex cable for prerotation. I always prerotate before getting on the runway (typically in the runup area) and never get on the runway with less than a “safe” rotor RPM. I can keep the prerotator engaged for a LONG time and can move the stick anywhere I want while it’s engaged. By contrast, virtually every other brand has a rigid prerotator drive that requires the pilot to release it before pulling the stick back prior to takeoff roll. That means most pilots of that arrangement start prerotating on the runway - holding up the runway for 15-30 seconds or so. And then they need to remember to first release the drive and then pull the stick back and then throttle up. If there’s other traffic in the pattern or a tower controller who gets antsy or some other distraction, the risk of the pilot failing to pull back before starting the roll goes up considerably - as does the risk of a blade flap.

Did the pilot make a mistake and break procedure? Absolutely. But the design of the gyro upped the risk for that.

This isn’t some esoteric risk: regrettably, it’s way more common than it should - could - be.
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I can't imagine becoming "distracted" or "forgetting" to follow a takeoff procedure when the penalty of doing so is serious injury or death.
 
3393RP said:
I can't imagine becoming "distracted" or "forgetting" to follow a takeoff procedure when the penalty of doing so is serious injury or death.
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And yet it happens, especially in gyros. Same for the “impossible turn”, if one thinks about it.
 
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