FAQ: DUI's and alcohol/drug abuse

kath

kath

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Katherine
I'm starting this thread in order to collect information about DUI/DWI and alcohol/drug abuse issues and pilot medicals. New pilots and Student Pilots: if you have ever had a DUI or issues with drugs/alcohol, please read some of these threads first!

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Student pilot: 21 year old DUI, sober for 19 years, active in recovery
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...sober-for-19-years-active-in-recovery.126871/

Will I be required to do the HIMS program?
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/will-i-be-required-to-do-the-hims-program.129774/

My past, starting as a student
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/my-past-starting-as-a-student.128713/

Trying to get my 3rd Class Medical with prior substance abuse showing up and no legal trouble
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...abuse-showing-up-and-no-legal-trouble.126504/
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I'm going to make this thread "sticky"... but this should be a living list, that can have changes and additions. If you know of a good thread that new Student Pilots should read, or that new users should search for, please let me know and I'll add it!

(My plan is to do something similar for SSRI's, ADHD, etc... suggestions welcome there too.)
 
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Hi, another DUI post, I apologize.
I was born in 1981 and I used to have a pretty bad drinking problem and some drug use in my late teens and early 20s. I've had a DUI arrest/conviction (don't remember the BAC or have it in paperwork) in 1999, resisting arrest and petty theft arrests/convictions (both alcohol-related) in 2003. Definitely a history of alcohol abuse. I have been sober since 2004. Staying out of trouble, going to AA regularly, clean driving record, work for same company for 10 years. I am trying to get a PPL - for the first time in my life I think I can afford it, so I need to pass a class 3 med. Just passed the knowledge test with a score of 100%. All 3 cases have been expunged as far as the state (CA) is concerned but I understand still need to be reported to FAA. I've read all the threads here that I could find, but still had some questions, any help would be much appreciated.
Basically I was wondering if anyone could recommend a AME in Los Angeles or Orange counties in CA and if anyone knows what my chances of getting a certificate are and how to maximize them. I do realize it will have to be deferred. I would love to be able to avoid the urine tests/evaluation for cost reasons. This is what I have so far -
1. Working on a letter explaining the alcohol/drug use and arrests. Anything in particular that should be mentioned?
2. Had liver function tests done - ALT, Alkaline Phosphatase, Bilirubin, also have records of 3 more tests going back to 2012. Any others?
3. Will soon have 6 letters testifying that I'm sober and have been sober and responsible as long as they've known me - current boss (since 2018), former boss (since 2011), girlfriend, her mother (both since 2015), AA sponsor (since 2004), another AA member (since 2017)
4. Ordered the official driving record
5. Got printouts of the court cases - don't have any other paperwork (like police reports) since it was so long ago. After I had them expunged I kept only the expungement orders, not expecting to need anything else ever again.
6. Probably will not be able to obtain a proof of having been in rehab in 2003 - too long ago - it is however mentioned in court case printout
This is all I have/will soon have so far. Thank you for any information regarding this.
 
All local and state arrest are reported to the FBI and I don’t think those arrest are purged if there is a conviction. Companies out there that specializes in federal background check.
 
I would hire a lawyer to put together the package. Medically, it appears there’s nothing left to do. But a well worded and organized package will present the best case possible, and help them understand the risks have already been mitigated. In fact, according to the FARs you can be issued an unrestricted 1st class… but they don’t rule by regulation, instead they rely on internal policy. THAT is why a lawyer is so important. IMO.
 
Tools said:
I would hire a lawyer to put together the package. Medically, it appears there’s nothing left to do. But a well worded and organized package will present the best case possible, and help them understand the risks have already been mitigated. In fact, according to the FARs you can be issued an unrestricted 1st class… but they don’t rule by regulation, instead they rely on internal policy. THAT is why a lawyer is so important. IMO.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The FAA operates on a compliance program. Climb, Confess, Comply applies to your medical too, you get better, admit your mistake and do what they require of you. Failing to do that or resisting puts you down a harder path.

If you fall into the "bad" categories on the HIMS decision trees, there isn't any wiggle room. Your BAC was either below 0.15 or it wasn't. You either had a single incident more than 5 years ago or you haven't. This isn't a problem that you can spin and unless a lawyer has an intimate knowledge of FAA Medical internal procedures, they're likely to do more harm than good.

DUIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents_Disposition_Table.pdf (faa.gov)
 
Hi, OP here, thank you, everyone. I saw an AME, submitted everything I could think of - a personal statement detailing as much as I could think of, blood tests, all the court/treatment stuff I could find, personal statements and now I just hope for the best. I did not want to get an attorney, because it would be cheaper to just do the eval+monitoring, but also because disposition tables list exactly what they want to know, and I thought that in my case there's no way to word to so that it sounds better than what it is. Thank you!
 
I had my initial exam in Feb of 2022. The AME I went to was not very clear on why he deferred me and I did the research. I got my first letter In May and sent a very complete package in May ( I had prepped all the paperwork) and got a HIMS AME. I got a letter in June requesting more info on a couple of old medical procedures, no big deal, also had a few tests done. In September last year I was directed to see a HIMS Psych. I also asked my AME to start the urine tests, which I get sent in about once every 3 to 4 weeks. I do not drink since 2009. I saw the Psych in November 2022, he turned in the report the end of December. It was uploaded to the FAA on Jan 12 2023. In my post follow up with my AME he said that the report was positive in every sense, and that my file looked good. He anticipated 2 to 3 months. His assistant said more like 3 months.
Today is June 7, 2023 and I have heard nothing. Bytheway, applying for my first Class 3 med.
I am about $9k into medical. I have <50 hours of training and am way past the time that my CFI has told me I am ready to solo. We have done instrument, x country, nights. I just need my solo times.

So my question is, does anybody have any idea how long OK City is taking? Am I close to coming out?

I am trying to decide if I should quit my lessons now, and restart or if the current times are getting close. My trip up was a DUI in 2009 and I blew .19. I have done everything right since then.
 
Donald Stauffer said:
I had my initial exam in Feb of 2022. The AME I went to was not very clear on why he deferred me and I did the research. I got my first letter In May and sent a very complete package in May ( I had prepped all the paperwork) and got a HIMS AME. I got a letter in June requesting more info on a couple of old medical procedures, no big deal, also had a few tests done. In September last year I was directed to see a HIMS Psych. I also asked my AME to start the urine tests, which I get sent in about once every 3 to 4 weeks. I do not drink since 2009. I saw the Psych in November 2022, he turned in the report the end of December. It was uploaded to the FAA on Jan 12 2023. In my post follow up with my AME he said that the report was positive in every sense, and that my file looked good. He anticipated 2 to 3 months. His assistant said more like 3 months.
Today is June 7, 2023 and I have heard nothing. Bytheway, applying for my first Class 3 med.
I am about $9k into medical. I have <50 hours of training and am way past the time that my CFI has told me I am ready to solo. We have done instrument, x country, nights. I just need my solo times.

So my question is, does anybody have any idea how long OK City is taking? Am I close to coming out?

I am trying to decide if I should quit my lessons now, and restart or if the current times are getting close. My trip up was a DUI in 2009 and I blew .19. I have done everything right since then.
Click to expand...

Why would you quit when you are almost there?
 
Tools said:
I would hire a lawyer to put together the package. Medically, it appears there’s nothing left to do. But a well worded and organized package will present the best case possible, and help them understand the risks have already been mitigated. In fact, according to the FARs you can be issued an unrestricted 1st class… but they don’t rule by regulation, instead they rely on internal policy. THAT is why a lawyer is so important. IMO.
Click to expand...
An aviation lawyer, one who understands what the FAA wants, and how the FAA wants the details worded.
 
PaulS said:
Why would you quit when you are almost there?
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He probably thinks it's a waste of money to keep flying with an instructor when he can't build the solo time required to get a license. May as well take a break now, then whenever the medical shows up finish out the training and solo time.
 
Spend the money now to keep current or later to get current. No need for a medical for a Sport Pilot Certificate if you want to pursue that while you wait ...
 
172andyou said:
He probably thinks it's a waste of money to keep flying with an instructor when he can't build the solo time required to get a license. May as well take a break now, then whenever the medical shows up finish out the training and solo time.
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Yeah, makes sense, but I'd probably just slow it down a bit, do some fun flights with the instructor just to keep it current.
 
Donald Stauffer said:
I had my initial exam in Feb of 2022. The AME I went to was not very clear on why he deferred me and I did the research. I got my first letter In May and sent a very complete package in May ( I had prepped all the paperwork) and got a HIMS AME. I got a letter in June requesting more info on a couple of old medical procedures, no big deal, also had a few tests done. In September last year I was directed to see a HIMS Psych. I also asked my AME to start the urine tests, which I get sent in about once every 3 to 4 weeks. I do not drink since 2009. I saw the Psych in November 2022, he turned in the report the end of December. It was uploaded to the FAA on Jan 12 2023. In my post follow up with my AME he said that the report was positive in every sense, and that my file looked good. He anticipated 2 to 3 months. His assistant said more like 3 months.
Today is June 7, 2023 and I have heard nothing. Bytheway, applying for my first Class 3 med.
I am about $9k into medical. I have <50 hours of training and am way past the time that my CFI has told me I am ready to solo. We have done instrument, x country, nights. I just need my solo times.

So my question is, does anybody have any idea how long OK City is taking? Am I close to coming out?

I am trying to decide if I should quit my lessons now, and restart or if the current times are getting close. My trip up was a DUI in 2009 and I blew .19. I have done everything right since then.
Click to expand...

My situation has some parallels to yours with indiscretions in my youth but very long term sobriety. I disclosed all (30+ years in the past) on my MedExpress form and, based on my due diligence, expected and received a deferral and denial with the HIMS/SI option. I am now awaiting issuance of an SI. It has been almost 3 months since submittal of the package from my HIMS AME. All of this I fully expected based on reports on various forums but also, ultimately, expect an issuance based on discussion with those in the loop on the process. Accordingly, since I am 60 years of age, I am wasting no time. I proceeded with flight training, bought a 182-S at 54hrs and now am at over 100hrs with a large chunk of Instrument Time completed. By the time I have my SI and can solo it may be another 50hrs...who knows....but it beats being on the ground looking skyward every time a GA plane passes overhead.

I wholeheartedly agree with @PaulS ...keep flying!
 
I do not think hiring an attorney will help speed the review time.
I have no problem supplying them with anything that they want to prove I have obtained and maintained sobriety. I am actually proud of it. My disappointment is with the review times. They give you 60 days to respond, yet do not have the staff or the incentives to do a review in a timely manner. It is irritating.
I know that I will receive a medical at some point. I also know that when I do I will drop over to Basic Med.
I will keep flying for now. I am also 60 years old and started this process knowing I will never turn this into a career (never my intention). I also know I only have a few years of flying in my future.
I just wish someone could give an answer. It is frustrating to call OKC and get the same response, " We do not know". Why don't they simply say how long they are running right now? What do they think will happen, people will stop sending in their medical requests?
I do love flying. Keep the blue side up!
Also, once you have been deferred for a medical, you cannot ever get a sport license.
 
Donald Stauffer said:
Also, once you have been deferred for a medical, you cannot ever get a sport license.
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Your *most recent* medical must not be denied/suspended/revoked. If you are subsequently issued, you are absolved.
 
GeorgeC said:
Your *most recent* medical must not be denied/suspended/revoked. If you are subsequently issued, you are absolved.
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I was about to reply the same but you beat me to it. My thought was that getting the Sport Certificate (though there is extra work and cost involved) would put him in a position to fly a plane solo (or with a passenger) until he gets the medical to obtain his PPL. Seems there is no real way to tell whether it will be months or years for him as slow as the FAA medical process has been lately ...
 
Daleandee said:
I was about to reply the same but you beat me to it. My thought was that getting the Sport Certificate (though there is extra work and cost involved) would put him in a position to fly a plane solo (or with a passenger) until he gets the medical to obtain his PPL.
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Nope, not only your *most recent* medical must not be denied/suspended/revoked, but you must "Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application."

A deferral means you weren't "found eligible" so SP is out during the wait.
 
Hi. I've read a bunch of DUI posts on here and am currently in review with FAA. Posting to 1) share for others in a similar situation and 2) to see if anyone has recently been decisioned by FAA and how long that took?
  • Never held a FAA medical
  • 2002 - DUI with > 0.15, accident involved
  • 2022 Sep - Saw a HIMS AME
  • 2022 Oct - Began alcohol abstinence and random testing
  • 2023 Mar - After 7 negative random tests, two observed, one blood, submitted packet to FAA
  • 2023 Apr - FAA received packet
  • 2023 Jun - As of today, still pending decision, so just short of three months
The testing has continued, of course, and I'm now up to 12 random tests, all are EtG + drug panel. Curious if anyone has been in a similar situation and recently got a decision (any decision) from FAA medical recently? If so, how long did it take?

Anyway, like most people, I was quite surprised to learn that a DUI from two decades ago had this much weight considering 1) no legal issues with alcohol or anything else in the interim, 2) clean lifetime DMV record (except the DUI), 3) long job history, 4) long marriage. Obviously they have their own ways of determining risk, but someone who truly has a substance abuse problem can't conceal that for two decades.
 
seerwright said:
... Obviously they have their own ways of determining risk, but someone who truly has a substance abuse problem can't conceal that for two decades.
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I had a cousin who did exactly that as a pilot for a major airline for more than two decades. After he retired, he basically drank himself to death.
 
Palmpilot said:
I had a cousin who did exactly that as a pilot for a major airline for more than two decades. After he retired, he basically drank himself to death.
Click to expand...

Real question: if your cousin flew with a major airline for 20 years without incident, didn't have DUIs or trouble with the law, and had healthy relationships, then did he really have a substance abuse problem during his pilot years? Was he able to control his use of alcohol or was he known to have been making bad choices and just avoided being caught?
 
Hello all
As an update, I have been flying still. now I am at 56 hours. My packet has been under review for 6 months and 2 weeks and still no update. I have decided that I am going to keep pushing. My CFII and I had a long discussion and we have decided that I will begin instrument training in late July.
I do love flying!!
I now have my own Archer, and have gotten to know her very well.
The words of encouragement on this thread is amazing.
 
seerwright said:
Obviously they have their own ways of determining risk, but someone who truly has a substance abuse problem can't conceal that for two decades.
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FAA is clearly a "trust, but verify" type of bureaucracy. Unfortunately, their verification procedures can be onerous and take a long damn time.

My experience was almost identical to yours, including timeline, but two years earlier. HIMS AME submitted my packet in March 2021 and I had my SI by late July. Hang in there.
 
Some here say always, "get an attorney". But no attorney can get you a clearance. In fact just about no civil attorneys understand part 67.

You need a HIMS psychiatrist (one of 60 pscyhiatrists known to the agency who go to courses on "part 67 definitions"). I sure hope you are conversant with the 12 steps, becuase the "tools for continued recovery (not just sobriety)" are part of the evaluation.
 
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Unless I was a professional pilot or my career was in danger, I would never waste the money on an attorney, especially for a PPL. Why poke the bear with a stick?
Today is 7 months since my HIMMS psych eval was turned in. all my other paperwork has been in since last year, most of it was turned in March of 2022. Still doing random Urine tests. Still taking lessons, have started instrument lessons, working on holds. Hopefully something comes through before my next exam is due in February 2024. Thanks ALLPRIMES. It is nice to know that the end of the tunnel exists!
 
Hello
As an update I received a denial from the FAA based upon my history.
However, in their letter, they stated the conditions that I would need to meet to be re-considered. Of the 4 items that they listed, I had already complied with most of them a year ago.
In the letter, they wanted me to engage with a HIMS AME, which I have done since June of last year, perform random urine tests at a pace of 14 every 12 months, which I started doing since August of last year, have a sleep apnea study done, which I did last September.
3 of the 4 items that they have requested that I accomplish for re-consideration I have already done prior to their reviewing the file. Has anyone else experienced this in their review?
There was no reference made to my Psych eval. The FAA approved HIMS Psych was very surprised at the denial. To be fair, he did recommend a follow up at 1 year from the initial report, which I have already scheduled for November. He had no other recommendations. His report was very positive, as was my HIMS AME. Unless they shared incorrect information with me. In fact they both expressed very high confidence that I would at minimum receive a special issuance.
My doc has re-submitted the items but now I fear I am going to be another year in the process. I am currently closing in on 19 months since my initial exam. Anybody else have this experience?
 
DSTAUFFER said:
Hello
As an update I received a denial from the FAA based upon my history.
However, in their letter, they stated the conditions that I would need to meet to be re-considered. Of the 4 items that they listed, I had already complied with most of them a year ago.
In the letter, they wanted me to engage with a HIMS AME, which I have done since June of last year, perform random urine tests at a pace of 14 every 12 months, which I started doing since August of last year, have a sleep apnea study done, which I did last September.
3 of the 4 items that they have requested that I accomplish for re-consideration I have already done prior to their reviewing the file. Has anyone else experienced this in their review?
There was no reference made to my Psych eval. The FAA approved HIMS Psych was very surprised at the denial. To be fair, he did recommend a follow up at 1 year from the initial report, which I have already scheduled for November. He had no other recommendations. His report was very positive, as was my HIMS AME. Unless they shared incorrect information with me. In fact they both expressed very high confidence that I would at minimum receive a special issuance.
My doc has re-submitted the items but now I fear I am going to be another year in the process. I am currently closing in on 19 months since my initial exam. Anybody else have this experience?
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They denied you for a single 0.19 DUI from 14 years ago? Why did they request a sleep apnea test? What was the 4th item they requested?
 
Yes, it was a single event 14 years ago. In 2007 I weighed a hefty 355 pounds and my wife was concerned about my sleep patterns so I did an apnea sleep study at the time. In 2008 I had lost over 100 lbs. When I sent in all my medical records they had noticed the previous sleep study and had me do a new one, which I did last year and sent in the results. Now they have determined that the test I was given by my doctor is not sufficient so they want a Type 1 sleep study, which involves me sleeping in the lab for a night, similiar to a DOT test. I can see the reasoning, I just wish they had stated that the first time.
The 4th item is AA attendance 2 times per week with a sponsor. I had suspected the AA, but I have been attending meetings every other week, no sponsor.
I hid absolutely nothing, have provided everything they have asked for plus. I have 3 traffic tickets beyond the DUI. no other criminal record. The strongest medication I take is Tylenol PM. Happy marriage, successful children, happy family, solid career, career advancement. My biggest flaw is that I am a huge Star Wars fan, which at 60 years old I guess can be weird.
 
I also jumped through most all of the hoops prior to receiving the denial/HIMS route option with possibility of issue at 3 or 4 months of SI stipulations completed and HIMS recommendation. It has been one month after my HIMS submitting a letter recommending issue (with all of the needed testing results, compliance report etc). Patiently waiting once again. At 140+ hrs and still having a blast with my CFI in my 182....so the waiting is not so painful. :)
 
I am right at 80 hours in my Archer. Love flying. It pains me to know that most of the info that they wanted was already there. But if it were easy then everyone would be flying!!! :cool:
 
DSTAUFFER said:
Yes, it was a single event 14 years ago. In 2007 I weighed a hefty 355 pounds and my wife was concerned about my sleep patterns so I did an apnea sleep study at the time. In 2008 I had lost over 100 lbs. When I sent in all my medical records they had noticed the previous sleep study and had me do a new one, which I did last year and sent in the results. Now they have determined that the test I was given by my doctor is not sufficient so they want a Type 1 sleep study, which involves me sleeping in the lab for a night, similiar to a DOT test. I can see the reasoning, I just wish they had stated that the first time.
The 4th item is AA attendance 2 times per week with a sponsor. I had suspected the AA, but I have been attending meetings every other week, no sponsor.
I hid absolutely nothing, have provided everything they have asked for plus. I have 3 traffic tickets beyond the DUI. no other criminal record. The strongest medication I take is Tylenol PM. Happy marriage, successful children, happy family, solid career, career advancement. My biggest flaw is that I am a huge Star Wars fan, which at 60 years old I guess can be weird.
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Did your psych eval indicate dependance or abuse?

My eval indicated past abuse (back in 2004), but I've had a feeling they're going to deny my Class 3 and insist on a recovery program anyway. In order to get ahead of this, I started going to AA meetings twice a week, on my own, about 2 months ago. I went in with an open-mind and hoped to at least get something out of it. Unfortunately, other than an incident from nearly 20 years ago, I have nothing in common with the people there (from a substance perspective). It feels like I'm going to be forced to either lie and pretend I have an alcohol problem in order to meet my goal, or keep my good word intact and quit all together.
 
AnotherHIMSStory said:
Did your psych eval indicate dependance or abuse?
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A BAC of .19 indicates dependence and abuse. No way you’re that high and still functioning without having built tolerance. .19 is nearing the blackout level.
 
AnotherHIMSStory said:
Did your psych eval indicate dependance or abuse?

My eval indicated past abuse (back in 2004), but I've had a feeling they're going to deny my Class 3 and insist on a recovery program anyway. In order to get ahead of this, I started going to AA meetings twice a week, on my own, about 2 months ago. I went in with an open-mind and hoped to at least get something out of it. Unfortunately, other than an incident from nearly 20 years ago, I have nothing in common with the people there (from a substance perspective). It feels like I'm going to be forced to either lie and pretend I have an alcohol problem in order to meet my goal, or keep my good word intact and quit all together.
Click to expand...

Thats common to not be able to relate to a former heroin addict in these meetings. Just try to relate the best you can so you get participation credit. In the FAAs eyes, a heroin junkie and you are the exact same thing. Im in a very similar boat as you and feel the same at these meetings as you do.

Every peg must go through the square hole.
 
AnotherHIMSStory said:
It feels like I'm going to be forced to either lie and pretend I have an alcohol problem in order to meet my goal, or keep my good word intact and quit all together.
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You don't have to speak at all at an 12-step meeting. No lying required. All you have to do is drop your log sheet into the basket as it goes around. Or get the chairperson to sign it at the end. The FAA required that I go to AA meetings when I was in HIMS (I am an alcoholic in recovery (> 22 years as of now), so no biggie for me) and I got my "sheet" signed at every meeting I attended. I sent it to my HIMS AME regularly, but he never asked to see it. Neither did the FAA.

JustSomeGuy73 said:
Every peg must go through the square hole.
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One size fits all! They did it! It's been streamlined! Hooray for the government! /s
 
Hello, just going to give some background to see thoughts on this situation.
I am 22 years old and have always wanted to go to school and eventually get up to the airlines. After high school I quickly realized I had an issue with alcohol and ended up getting a DWI in December 2021. After that I went to a treatment program and did substance abuse classes and have been doing anything I can to stay away which I have been without an issue ever since. I am fully aware of an issue and when they ask about it I’ll have no issue being straight up and honest about everything and owning up to it and working with whatever program I need to. Now that I am looking deeper into flight school I’ve started getting pretty concerned about how to go about this as far as schooling and getting medicals done. What are the chances of getting a 1st, 2nd or 3rd class medical? I am willing to do anything I need to do to try to get a 1st class med and eventually to the airlines however I know it’ll be a longer road than normal. I am still pretty clueless as to what steps I should start to take to get there and any tips or opinions are greatly appreciated. What are the chances of getting a medical to get into school and even if I do instructing for several years to put more time between myself and the incident? Can I get a different class medical just for CFI in the meantime if it’ll be quicker With the DWI? Once again I am willing to do whatever it takes to get into schooling and work my way up, there is just so much info out there that I’m not sure what steps and processes I need to take right now for my situation and what would be the best way to at least get a CFI certification and job. Any and I mean any tips or opinions are greatly appreciated!
 
@Masmas1 If you are not participating in a recovery program (AA, Celebrate Recovery, …etc), start now and document twice weekly attendance. Show the FAA that you accept that you have an issue and are actively ‘treating’ it. This will be necessary regardless of the class of medical you seek. A class 3 Special Issue can be decided in OKC and may be quicker and can get you on your path for PPL and other ratings. Seek advice from a HIMS AME prior to starting any medical application.
 
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