Failed private pilot checkride

Your CFI endorsed you for the practical test and you didn’t know how to do a steep turn?
 
Clip4 said:
Your CFI endorsed you for the practical test and you didn’t know how to do a steep turn?
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Yeah. He knew how to do it to the right, but he didn’t know how to do it to the left.

That’s a pretty silly post.
 
The ACS is worded poorly, IMHO. I think most DPEs want to see you keep the bank >40 degrees and <50 degrees, but the ACS says to initiate the turn with "approximately" a 45 degree bank and maintain the bank angle within +/- 5 degrees.

So, you could initiate the turn at, let's say, 43 degrees. Is that "approximate" enough? Then you would need to hold the bank between 38 and 48 degrees.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Is this a change? For some reason I thought it was that there are certain maneuvers the DPE had to see (stalls being one) and you had to get right. And everything else was up to the DPE whether you're tested on it and up to the DPE whether your performance is acceptable not. Busting someone on steep turns in one direction but not the other when everything else was good just sounds like someone was looking for a retest fee to me but I'm jaded like that I guess.
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It’s in the ACS and free to read. LOL. But as some have mentioned... it has wording problems.

Clip4 said:
Your CFI endorsed you for the practical test and you didn’t know how to do a steep turn?
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Good lord Microsoft Clippy. Obviously he demonstrated multiple for the instructor just fine at some point.

Half Fast said:
The ACS is worded poorly, IMHO. I think most DPEs want to see you keep the bank >40 degrees and <50 degrees, but the ACS says to initiate the turn with "approximately" a 45 degree bank and maintain the bank angle within +/- 5 degrees.

So, you could initiate the turn at, let's say, 43 degrees. Is that "approximate" enough? Then you would need to hold the bank between 38 and 48 degrees.
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Yeah, when you the Feds choose to be ambiguous, always paint in the middle of the lines. Not the edges. :)

Haven’t met a DPE yet who couldn’t tell if something was a steep turn performer with “mastery of the aircraft” and a sloppy mess without looking at any sort of AI or angle measuring Instrument. They’ve seen thousands of the damn things.

Very rare to see a candidate who didn’t know they screwed the pooch on one either. He knew and he’s going to go do it right here shortly.

And will know for the next rating when a maneuver is weak to speak up and tell the instructor that even though that one looked pretty, you just got lucky and you want to do a few more. :)

I bet you knew they sucked to the left, didn’t you? Heh. Been there, done that. :)
 
Or he demonstrated all of them with 35 degrees of bank and his CFI never corrected hi.
 
Clip4 said:
Or he demonstrated all of them with 35 degrees of bank and his CFI never corrected hi.
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Well I suppose that’s a possibility but I doubt it.

If he knows that’s true at least he learned not to hire that CFI after this is over with ha. And he can keep it to himself and take that one to his grave if he likes. Hahaha.

Out of a whole bunch of CFIs I can only name one that wasn’t teaching to standards and it was pretty obvious before we ever got in the aircraft.

And I was a young pup who wouldn’t have normally known any better back then. He was that obvious.

Later I learned lots of people knew of his reputation for, shall we say, shoddy workmanship. It wasn’t exactly a secret around here.

Oh well. Only used him for an aircraft checkout and didn’t die, so I guess life went on. LOL.
 
Clip4 said:
Or he demonstrated all of them with 35 degrees of bank and his CFI never corrected hi.
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I flew the mighty all powerful C-152 during training 12 years ago:cool:

My CFI would "shift" the more experienced students to later slots in the day giving the new students the nice calm 7am and early morning time slots.

My final "practice" lessons were 3pm in 105* with thermals and high winds - practice "was not fun" ... but check ride was in Sept and after the oral, the air work began around 9:45am with an overcast, windy and temps about 88* ... without thermals and TB, that plane felt like it was on rails for the check ride;) Crosswind landings were very easy but "looked" tough with the amount of crab and kick.

Maybe the OP had some mechanical TB/thermal action?
 
danhagan said:
I flew the mighty all powerful C-152 during training 12 years ago:cool:

My CFI would "shift" the more experienced students to later slots in the day giving the new students the nice calm 7am and early morning time slots.

My final "practice" lessons were 3pm in 105* with thermals and high winds - practice "was not fun" ... but check ride was in Sept and after the oral, the air work began around 9:45am with an overcast, windy and temps about 88* ... without thermals and TB, that plane felt like it was on rails for the check ride;) Crosswind landings were very easy but "looked" tough with the amount of crab and kick.

Maybe the OP had some mechanical TB/thermal action?
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I doubt this also. Any DPE can just tell by looking out the window if you’re fighting turbulence to stay in your bank, or just not banked enough.

Probably the number one student mistake on steep turns is looking inside at the AI for guidance. It’s an outside reference maneuver.

Learn to see what it looks like outside and you’ll never have trouble with them again. Private or Commercial bank standards.

And yes, in side by side seating aircraft they look different in opposite directions and they also look different if you swap seats.

Use the AI and a glance at the altimeter to check after you “set it” and hold it by looking outside. Trim or not, your call. I’m lazy, so I’ll trim it if I want to make life simple but I can sit there and hold the silly things with unnecessary muscle power also. There’s always an instructional debate as to teach to trim or not, I’m in the always trimmed camp but YMMV.

Whatever works, just hold the sight picture.
 
Congratulations! It seems like a big deal now, but in a few years, it won’t matter that that you got your license two weeks later than what you hoped. Fly safe.
 
Congratulations! Glad to see you powered through and saw the positives in the "failure". Now go fly and enjoy what all that hard work has earned you!
 
What a stickler DPE. I have heard a story about a dude failing his IFR checkride because he didn’t do a brake check at the very beginning. I guess these exams just get tougher the further you move up. Can you image the OP’s DPE conducting a CPL exam? Probably has half degree and 15’ tolerances.


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YooperMooney said:
What a stickler DPE. I have heard a story about a dude failing his IFR checkride because he didn’t do a brake check at the very beginning. I guess these exams just get tougher the further you move up. Can you image the OP’s DPE conducting a CPL exam? Probably has half degree and 15’ tolerances.


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The easiest way to fail a ride is not to meet the MINIMUM standards on the ACS *and* use and follow the aircraft checklist.

Remember, they’re minimum standards. You’re always allowed, encouraged, and even expected someday to fly better than minimums. :)
 
Wow, back when I got my ppl.. the FAA check pilot asked me to do a p.o. stall.

I did it to horn and tail buffet... He said we prefer to have the stall fully develop thru fall. He demonstrated, then I did one. And then I explained that I thought the purpose of stall training was to recognize the stall and avoid it... And that's why I didn't let it fully develop...

He agreed (apparently) and, in the end, signed my logbook..

I'll admit to not loving stalls... The full story of why is in lessons learned under my moniker...

Thing have certainly changed in 30+ years... I'm sure that would be a fail now, at least with a DPE.
 
ajb3 said:
View attachment 76765 UPDATE: went up for the retake today and passed. So relieved and happy. Thanks everyone for your support.
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Well done! Now get out there and exercise your well-earned privileges. And remember that this flying thing is actually a lot of fun...
 
Congrats now go fly for fun.
 
Folks let's keep our eye on the prize! What is the lesson here?

Ajb 3 good on ya for going for it, now share with us your thoughts and perceptions please. Hopefully, you now have a better understanding of your reaction to stress and warning signs you are about to cross over the line into overload. Can someone hum a bar or two of ADM? Have we learned about using outside site references AND instrumentation...let's see for 45 bank to left line up that rivet on the cowling cross check with AH and turn...

Has this caught your attention and made you want to do better? I failed my first PP during the oral, because I did not know airspace! The DPE was so appalled by my ignorance that she tore up the check for her fee then made me flight plan the return home, and file it as she sat and watched. Did I learn somethings? You betcha! This became the catalyst for becoming an Advanced Ground Instructor.

The only failure is in failing to do your best. In life and in the sky it is all about you! You are the final and ultimate authority. Delegation does not alleviate, mitigate, or transfer authority. Sound harsh? I used to think so too but now see this as liberating and life giving!

Wishing everyone a future filled with success
 
BTW folks let's bring our A game here, please! Comments along the line of I think the ACE says, or I've been told I mean sheesh what's up here?! Go read the ACE or PTS cover to cover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a few gazillion tons of required stuff in there. Your CFI should cover everything not just heading, speed, and altitude tolerances. You should go through it several times on your own too so you know what to expect and how to react.

As an example, suppose you are setting up for a short field landing at an uncontrolled field when the DPE points and says hey look at that twin on the ramp, what a beauty! What are you going to do? I hope you tell her or him to shut up!

One last thought, how do you approach the use of a checklist? You do use them, right? Do you use it as a punch list to be followed step by step? Does performing a flow then verifying the checklist work better for you? Tell your DPE which way you use then stick to it.

Eye lids drooping, back to logging Zzz time
 
Congrats!! Welcome to the club, pilot!
 
luvflyin said:
Ah, steep turns to the left. I had the same problem. Could nail them to right but not the left. Always had to much left rudder. Not enough left bank could be a natural response to this. I don’t remember doing that, just skidding. I got over it when someone explained to me that coordinated rudder is needed while rolling into the turn. Once you are established at the bank you need for the turn, you don’t need the rudder anymore. Do you think that’s what you are doing? Holding the left rudder you used to enter the turn after you are established in the turn.
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I was the same way as well. My problem was I couldn't hold altitude turning left for some reason. I started watching the attitude indicator and kept the plane right on the horizons and nailed it every time
 
Most people put the nose cone on the horizon, in a side by side plane this will ensure a descent to the left and a climb to the right. Also, left turning tenancy's need to be considered with rudder usage, especially when doing more interesting maneuvering.
 
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