Failed Medical, Psych Eval Results Coming

MrAviator180

MrAviator180

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Alaska
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Display name:
MrAviator
Well, it's a long story
Age 9: Treated with ADHD, with Adderall - Concerta
Age 15: Stopped taking concerta as it became something I'd take on test days
Age 16: Started flight training, on track to solo as youngest at Flight School to do so, but then went in to get my medical, failed, and had to go get a Psych Eval in Anchorage (400 miles away). Now the results are coming in soon (Less than half-an-hour)

I don't really know what to expect. I'm getting a word back soon.

Thanks

MrAviator180

PS: I'll update as time goes.
 
Welcome first poster.

What was the reason they gave you for failing the physical if you don't mind me asking.

Did you fail physically, or mentally, or both?
 
I presume ADHD, which is considered by the FAA to be both disqualifying and a lifelong dx.
 
JeffDG said:
I presume ADHD, which is considered by the FAA to be both disqualifying and a lifelong dx.
Click to expand...

No, you can get it by getting a Psychological Evaluation, and they'll determine it based on your results.

txflyer said:
Welcome first poster.

What was the reason they gave you for failing the physical if you don't mind me asking.

Did you fail physically, or mentally, or both?
Click to expand...

ADHD, and I automatically got DQ'd because I took adderall.
 
UPDATE

So I got the results, I did great on some parts, and not so good on others. Specifically the ones that require a lot of attention and focus. So... Basically I have very mild case of ADHD...

I'm not sure how the FAA will handle this, but I really hope I get my medical...It's a Class 3, I would love to think that they would.
 
MrAviator180 said:
UPDATE

So I got the results, I did great on some parts, and not so good on others. Specifically the ones that require a lot of attention and focus. So... Basically I have very mild case of ADHD...

I'm not sure how the FAA will handle this, but I really hope I get my medical...It's a Class 3, I would love to think that they would.
Click to expand...

I would suggest getting a consultation with someone like Dr. Bruce before submitting anything that you're unsure will be acceptable to the FAA.
 
Brad beat me to it by 49 seconds...

MrAviator180 said:
UPDATE

So I got the results, I did great on some parts, and not so good on others. Specifically the ones that require a lot of attention and focus. So... Basically I have very mild case of ADHD...

I'm not sure how the FAA will handle this, but I really hope I get my medical...It's a Class 3, I would love to think that they would.
Click to expand...

I would recommend that you contact Dr. Bruce Chien immediately either by posting in the Medical forum or thru the contact page on his web site www.aeromedicaldoc.com

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
 
He's already screwed.

If his current psych confirms the dx . . .
 
comanchepilot said:
He's already screwed.

If his current psych confirms the dx . . .
Click to expand...

There are several other pilots not only on here, but other forums that have gone through this procedure. Who knows what will happen. Expand please?

MrAviator180
 
MrAviator180 said:
There are several other pilots not only on here, but other forums that have gone through this procedure. Who knows what will happen. Expand please?

MrAviator180
Click to expand...

If the DX will hurt you, there's no benefit to sending it to the FAA. It's a diagnosis for life. The most you'll ever be able to fly are gliders and rc airplanes.

The prevailing medical wisdom is that one does not outgrow ADHD. I'm not 100% convinced that's not the case, particularly if you're borderline. Don't take any further actions that may close doors for you in the future.
 
Brad Z said:
I would suggest getting a consultation with someone like Dr. Bruce before submitting anything that you're unsure will be acceptable to the FAA.
Click to expand...

Papa Foxtrot said:
Brad beat me to it by 49 seconds...



I would recommend that you contact Dr. Bruce Chien immediately either by posting in the Medical forum or thru the contact page on his web site www.aeromedicaldoc.com

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...

WILCO.

Brad Z said:
If the DX will hurt you, there's no benefit to sending it to the FAA. It's a diagnosis for life. The most you'll ever be able to fly are gliders and rc airplanes.

The prevailing medical wisdom is that one does not outgrow ADHD. I'm not 100% convinced that's not the case, particularly if you're borderline. Don't take any further actions that may close doors for you in the future.
Click to expand...

I am following instructions I was SENT from the FAA, I'm not doing any more, or any less. There are a few American Eagle pilots who've had to do the same exact thing I'm doing and are flying jets today. It may be a diagnosis for life, but one learns to cope and over-come it, they still have it, but they know how to deal with it (As, am I).
 
MrAviator180 said:
Who knows what will happen.
Click to expand...

An experienced AME will know exactly what will happen when you send your eval to OKC. Don't leave it to guesswork if you don't want to live the rest of your life as Mr. Groundpounder180.
 
Brad Z said:
If the DX will hurt you, there's no benefit to sending it to the FAA. It's a diagnosis for life. The most you'll ever be able to fly are gliders and rc airplanes.

The prevailing medical wisdom is that one does not outgrow ADHD. I'm not 100% convinced that's not the case, particularly if you're borderline. Don't take any further actions that may close doors for you in the future.
Click to expand...

Ultralights, PT 103 doesn't require a medical and there is no 'can't have a denial' clause.
 
MrAviator180 said:
WILCO.



I am following instructions I was SENT from the FAA, I'm not doing any more, or any less. There are a few American Eagle pilots who've had to do the same exact thing I'm doing and are flying jets today. It may be a diagnosis for life, but one learns to cope and over-come it, they still have it, but they know how to deal with it (As, am I).
Click to expand...

I dont know what your AE friends did, but ADHD is a disqualifying medical condition. Period. I'm sorry. It doesn't matter how well you can deal with it.
 
To the OP - Mr. Aviator:

Have you done a search yet on this forum for ADHD or ADD? You should. Stop waiting to be spoon fed information and go find it out yourself.

You are not the first airman to be dx'd with ADHD or ADD and is trying to get certified.

There is a detailed psych profile and testing you have to go though - this testing needs to indicate that you do not have ADHD - stop resting your hopes on a 'mild' case - its like saying you only have a 'mild case' of schizophrenia or are only 'a little bit' pregnant. Disqualifying is disqualifying.

If you have submitted a medical application to an AME with an ADHD dx you are disqualified from any class medical and no longer able to fly sport pilot.

If you are taking or took adderall for a dq'ing condition - you are disqualified from any class medical and no longer able to fly sport pilot.

The first post already states he has been denied a certificate.

I'm afraid that his recent battery of tests made his problem even worse. . . . basically because he did that naked - meaning without anyone telling him what he needed to do from an aeromedical perspective to get certified. His own AME screwed him by apparently simply 'punting' to OKC and letting him sink and swim on his own . . . .
 
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I believe he has already done the testing the FAA required of him and had a mixed result. Now the question is if CAMI is going to issue him or not based on the results.
 
Brad Z said:
I dont know what your AE friends did, but ADHD is a disqualifying medical condition. Period. I'm sorry. It doesn't matter how well you can deal with it.
Click to expand...

You're right. We'll find out what happens I guess. I'll expect to be denied.

comanchepilot said:
To the OP - Mr. Aviator:

Have you done a search yet on this forum for ADHD or ADD? You should. Stop waiting to be spoon fed information and go find it out yourself.

You are not the first airman to be dx'd with ADHD or ADD and is trying to get certified.

There is a detailed psych profile and testing you have to go though - this testing needs to indicate that you do not have ADHD - stop resting your hopes on a 'mild' case - its like saying you only have a 'mild case' of schizophrenia or are only 'a little bit' pregnant. Disqualifying is disqualifying.

If you have submitted a medical application to an AME with an ADHD dx you are disqualified from any class medical and no longer able to fly sport pilot.

If you are taking or took adderall for a dq'ing condition - you are disqualified from any class medical and no longer able to fly sport pilot.

The first post already states he has been denied a certificate.

I'm afraid that his recent battery of tests made his problem even worse. . . .
Click to expand...

Possibly, check out

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ces/aam/ame/guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd/

I'm not sure what the possibility is on this, now...Thanks for the eye-opener.
 
The old catch-22.

Fail a medical and potentially be grounded from all aspects of flying, or fortune-tell your condition and give up GA for sport pilot and let it lapse and never speak to a doctor again.
 
MrAviator180 said:
You're right. We'll find out what happens I guess. I'll expect to be denied.



Possibly, check out

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ces/aam/ame/guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd/

I'm not sure what the possibility is on this, now...Thanks for the eye-opener.
Click to expand...

You had a full neuropysch eval? Did you pay for it? These are several thousand dollars . ..

For a datapoint - my son who has autism had a full neuropysch eval and the conclusion was that he would never graduate from high school with a diploma and never learn how to drive . . . .

Glendora High School Class of 2013 - got is DL on his 19th birthday.

it is not really science. . . its interpretive opinion - and you can't test for work ethic and desire.
 
txflyer said:
The old catch-22.

Fail a medical and potentially be grounded from all aspects of flying, or fortune-tell your condition and give up GA for sport pilot and let it lapse and never speak to a doctor again.
Click to expand...

There's still PT 103 Ultralight aviation for the financially challenged, and gliders, including motor gliders for those with some extra cash. I'm not sure but I suspect you may be able to even get a Commercial and CFI-G and make a little money at it without a medical.
 
MrAviator180 said:
You're right. We'll find out what happens I guess. I'll expect to be denied.
Click to expand...

That's a very teenage-like attitude. Take ownership of your medical and seek knowledgable counsel on your behalf.

Or wing it and see what happens.
 
MrAviator180 said:
UPDATE

So I got the results, I did great on some parts, and not so good on others. Specifically the ones that require a lot of attention and focus. So... Basically I have very mild case of ADHD...

I'm not sure how the FAA will handle this, but I really hope I get my medical...It's a Class 3, I would love to think that they would.
Click to expand...


The FAA will say you have ADHD and you will be denied. Forever. They do not recognize "mild case" when it comes to this. You need an expert advocate such as Doc Bruce, if only to determine if there is any hope.
 
I know of another friend at my college who has ADHD/ADD and like the OP, it is mild and well controlled with medication. He wants to become a pilot too, but I warned him about to not apply for a medical and go sport pilot or the glider route. He at first thought the FAA would accept his controlled ADHD, but after looking through online and me convincing it is a bad idea to apply for a medical, he is going to look into this thing further more I think, and hopefully he will listen to me.

It just saddens me that even youngsters with even mild ADHD that is well controlled with medication cannot even become a pilot unless you go sport pilot, glider, Part 103 route.

On the side note with ultralights, in my opinion, I do not know how safe are part 103 ultralights. I myself would not recommend flying an ultralight without proper training. Unfortunately, I do not know where I can do part 103 ultralight training so that may be problematic for those who want to learn to fly an ultralight safely.
 
Mason said:
The FAA will say you have ADHD and you will be denied. Forever. They do not recognize "mild case" when it comes to this. You need an expert advocate such as Doc Bruce, if only to determine if there is any hope.
Click to expand...

I'm already in touch with him. Seeing where this is going.

Brad Z said:
That's a very teenage-like attitude. Take ownership of your medical and seek knowledgeable counsel on your behalf.

Or wing it and see what happens.
Click to expand...

Roger that

comanchepilot said:
You had a full neuropysch eval? Did you pay for it? These are several thousand dollars . ..

For a datapoint - my son who has autism had a full neuropysch eval and the conclusion was that he would never graduate from high school with a diploma and never learn how to drive . . . .

Glendora High School Class of 2013 - got is DL on his 19th birthday.

it is not really science. . . its interpretive opinion - and you can't test for work ethic and desire.
Click to expand...

Insurance covered it, along with the help of parents. We'll see what happens. I had the full eval. Took about 8 hours. One 3 hour appointment, one 5.
 
MrAviator180 said:
I've taken Adderall, the FAA already hates me.

Diagnosed, or not, the fact that I took adderall is a red flag to the FAA.
Click to expand...

That's what I mean....you're not alone. One article said 9% of American kids are diagnosed with it...probably a high percentage of those have been screwed by the prescription. My nephew went through it....he was just an energetic little kid.

He's now a bright, very mellow, hard-working, accomplished young man with no need for any meds, but that childhood prescription would haunt him if he ever did want to fly. It stinks.
 
LDJones said:
That's what I mean....you're not alone. One article said 9% of American kids are diagnosed with it...probably a high percentage of those have been screwed by the prescription. My nephew went through it....he was just an energetic little kid.

He's now a bright, very mellow, hard-working, accomplished young man with no need for any meds, but that childhood prescription would haunt him if he ever did want to fly. It stinks.
Click to expand...

You're very right. Doctors are SO QUICK to put kids on it. When kids were kids, especially me.

I don't need it. What makes me upset is that I've made it SO CLOSE to soloing, and nobody has told me a THING, not my psychologist, not a doctor, nobody. To make matters worse my AME barely did his job and bailed on me. :mad:
 
MrAviator180 said:
You're very right. Doctors are SO QUICK to put kids on it. When kids were kids, especially me.

I don't need it. What makes me upset is that I've made it SO CLOSE to soloing, and nobody has told me a THING, not my psychologist, not a doctor, nobody. To make matters worse my AME barely did his job and bailed on me. :mad:
Click to expand...

And not your instructor who threw you under the bus by not bothering to talk to you about some of the common medical pitfalls.

Did he/she give you the "if you can fog a mirror you will be OK" routine?
 
MrAviator180 said:
You're very right. Doctors are SO QUICK to put kids on it. When kids were kids, especially me.

I don't need it. What makes me upset is that I've made it SO CLOSE to soloing, and nobody has told me a THING, not my psychologist, not a doctor, nobody. To make matters worse my AME barely did his job and bailed on me. :mad:
Click to expand...

I feel so bad for you. My sister is a doctor and over the years I've heard her moan about taking over practices where she has had to go in and clean up patients because of over medication of clients when they did not need all the medication. Hopefully you can overcome this hurdle. It's also a shame the FAA in this case apparently looks at medication taken years ago. Best wishes in getting this cleared up.
 
asgcpa said:
I feel so bad for you. My sister is a doctor and over the years I've heard her moan about taking over practices where she has had to go in and clean up patients because of over medication of clients when they did not need all the medication. Hopefully you can overcome this hurdle. It's also a shame the FAA in this case apparently looks at medication taken years ago. Best wishes in getting this cleared up.
Click to expand...

The FAA isn't looking at the medication taken years ago, they're looking at the "why" of the medication.

Adderal is prescribed for ADHD. It is incredibly closely regulated, basically being an analog of amphetamine. Having been prescribed it is based upon a diagnosis of a disqualifying condition (doctors are very restricted in off-label prescription of such medications), a condition which the FAA deems to be lifelong.

The way to get out of that diagnosis is to establish that it was in error, and that's why there's the psyche eval
 
JeffDG said:
The way to get out of that diagnosis is to establish that it was in error, and that's why there's the psyche eval
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, for the OP, it appears that the diagnosis was not in error, as his new psych testing confirms the diagnosis.
 
I remember South Park had an episode years ago about all the kids being drugged.

The consequences are coming to bear on these unfortunate kids now.
 
I thought all those Alaska pilots were unlicensed to begin with. What's the big deal?
 
For me there is no doubt that this is being over diagnosed, and will stop there because if I go further it will become spin zone. I also think that being so draconian about it is unfortunate, and will unnecessarily prevent some fully capable people from becoming pilots. I understand the whole FAA opinion and (ir)rational reasoning behind it, but I think there are some worse things that are not disqualifying than some of these mild autism spectrum diagnosis.
 
Cmercado said:
Its Alaska... You dont need a stinking certificate......:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Click to expand...

I know right :D I should just buy a 150 and GO!

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
And not your instructor who threw you under the bus by not bothering to talk to you about some of the common medical pitfalls.

Did he/she give you the "if you can fog a mirror you will be OK" routine?
Click to expand...

Nope, I've never heard of that. I did get that from a few airline pilots I talked to about it. "TWO FEET AND A HEARTBEAT".

asgcpa said:
I feel so bad for you. My sister is a doctor and over the years I've heard her moan about taking over practices where she has had to go in and clean up patients because of over medication of clients when they did not need all the medication. Hopefully you can overcome this hurdle. It's also a shame the FAA in this case apparently looks at medication taken years ago. Best wishes in getting this cleared up.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I'm just watching this all go down :yikes: :dunno:

JeffDG said:
The FAA isn't looking at the medication taken years ago, they're looking at the "why" of the medication.

Adderal is prescribed for ADHD. It is incredibly closely regulated, basically being an analog of amphetamine. Having been prescribed it is based upon a diagnosis of a disqualifying condition (doctors are very restricted in off-label prescription of such medications), a condition which the FAA deems to be lifelong.

The way to get out of that diagnosis is to establish that it was in error, and that's why there's the psyche eval
Click to expand...

We actually did declare it was a misdiagnosis in hopes that they'd just give it up, but they did the "HAHA OKAY, WELL PROVE IT THEN."


txflyer said:
I remember South Park had an episode years ago about all the kids being drugged.

The consequences are coming to bear on these unfortunate kids now.
Click to expand...

That's right. That was actually a pretty good episode. It's quite true how the medication just mellows you out a lot.

steingar said:
I thought all those Alaska pilots were unlicensed to begin with. What's the big deal?
Click to expand...

Hahaha, well, I might end up joy-riding eventually :rofl:

douglas393 said:
For me there is no doubt that this is being over diagnosed, and will stop there because if I go further it will become spin zone. I also think that being so draconian about it is unfortunate, and will unnecessarily prevent some fully capable people from becoming pilots. I understand the whole FAA opinion and (ir)rational reasoning behind it, but I think there are some worse things that are not disqualifying than some of these mild autism spectrum diagnosis.
Click to expand...

I wish it were that easy. I might try to get lucky, knowing they handle it on a case-by-case basis. I don't know though.
 
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