failed checkride

I've never heard of anybody complaining about an actual ride (instructor, 709 whatever) with an inspector. Lots of horror stories about inspectors going over mainenance records and finding something to ground the aircraft though on CFI rides up in the NE here.
 
Yeah, I'm not looking to get my ride 'voided' or anything like that, since my unsat had nothing to do with not having DME.

I've opened a dialog with my instructor. After reading the PTS once again, I think the DPE is a little off track.

My main hope with my post is that others learn from it, and perhaps consider how they will react as PIC if asked to perform something that may not be appropriate during their checkride. It never occurred to me that I could elect to end the check ride with a discontinuance.
 
No doubt this is true. But an FAA inspector is not necessarily the big boogie-man that many assume. I did my private check ride with an FAA inspector, and had no complaints.

I've never heard of anybody complaining about an actual ride (instructor, 709 whatever) with an inspector. Lots of horror stories about inspectors going over mainenance records and finding something to ground the aircraft though on CFI rides up in the NE here.

Some people try to use the "I took a check ride with an FAA Inspector" as some sort of "badge of honor" (Like proclaiming they are a "veteran of 3 FAA check rides :rolleyes: )

In reality it's hardly any different than with a DPE, except as mentioned about the Airworthiness part.
 
No doubt this is true. But an FAA inspector is not necessarily the big boogie-man that many assume. I did my private check ride with an FAA inspector, and had no complaints.
I agree. I've taken four pilot/CFI practical tests with FAA Inspectors, and I have no complaints about any of them. However, some folks have that bogey-man fear of the FAA, and I've seen such folks eat a bogus failure rather than go to the FSDO.
 
Some people try to use the "I took a check ride with an FAA Inspector" as some sort of "badge of honor" (Like proclaiming they are a "veteran of 3 FAA check rides :rolleyes: )

In reality it's hardly any different than with a DPE, except as mentioned about the Airworthiness part.

Not paying is nice. Although god knows how much the airworthiness guys are going to cost whomever owns the airplane once they start going over it.
 
What is considered "a good record"? My understanding is that that particular DPE from that thread has had a reputation change over the last few years that is better than his previous reputation. He previously was highly recommended not to go to...at least based on comments from the Club and CFI I used for my IR.
To be fair though: The guy who is nice enough to let me use his plane just had a successful IR ride with the same DPE....he was more than fair with him. Results may vary by day and personality I would guess...


I'll echo this. Without any hint of approaching the topic on my part, on my second (and successful attempt) at my check ride with a different DPE we were interrupted no less than 2-3 times by someone passing by. The conversations went like this:

"Sorry to interrupt, are you a DPE? I took your card"
"Yes, we're doing the practical"
"Sorry about that, I'm going to give you a call.. I keep having incidents with <insert my first DPE name here> and my students and I want to send them somewhere else"
"Well he's here for the same reason so give me a call".

That happened I think THREE times but let's be conservative and say two.

We landed and the direct quote was "I dont know what the hell <DPE name> was thinking, but your CFI seems to think that there was no way you could have passed anyway, and that must have been the case".

I flew home... the next day I took my wife to breakfast and on the way through the FBO I ran into a local. The conversation went like this:

"Hey you must have passed your check ride how did it go!"
me: "First one not so well, but the retest was fine"
"Did you go through <DPE Name>? I was just at breakfast and the other few guys started bitching about him saying he was yelling at their students. I havent heard a thing good about him".
Me: "I would concur with that but draw your own conclusion, I went through <New DPE name> this time".



My advice to the OP... If you were in any way graded outside the standards or feel you were mistreated... COMPLAIN. Worst case scenario is they say "okay" and thats about it. You may get offered a free checkride with them (and I hear the odds are never in your favor on them).

My new DPE sat me down and had me walk through my first checkride that I busted. We were able to clearly identify two to three places that were clearly not in the PTS, and he highlighted a portion that even still gives the examiner some discretion. It says something like "Consistently is outside of standards" and "does not make corrections".

Where as my other one, for example, didnt like my stall recovery because it was not at enough of a climb, vs a climb. PTS says they are recovery into a climb, it doesnt say 1000 feet per minute or any specification.

Things like that. Bottom line.. If you dont like it, go elsewhere. If you are on the east coast and want to come to the one I just rode with, he reduced his fee for me because of how horrible the first one was.
 
Took the practical again yesterday with the same DPE and passed. Got a little too close to +100 on the circle to land, but other than that, went perfectly. GPS was only used for the GPS approach, it was a tough checkride for me, but it is nice to have it completed.
 
Took the practical again yesterday with the same DPE and passed. Got a little too close to +100 on the circle to land, but other than that, went perfectly. GPS was only used for the GPS approach, it was a tough checkride for me, but it is nice to have it completed.
Congratulations on the pass! :yes: :cheers:

Not to rain on the parade, but I have to ask: did you ever figure out what went wrong with the VOR approach on your first ride?
 
The VOR 1 was off in the plane by about 2.5 degrees. That is what threw me off course, and I never recovered from that.
 
He 'failed' it by turning it to the gps satellite info page. COM and NAV1 radios were still operational.

The approach was KMHR 22L VOR/DME. I pointed out I cannot fly this approach due to required DME, was told to figure out a way to fly it, thats when I asked approach to call my final and missed.

Once I was in the hold I said I would choose to fly a different approach at this time, DPE said nope, we're doing this one.

I agree, the only thing to do is learn and move on. I hope my posts don't come off as whiny or trying to lay blame. I didn't measure up that day and I have to prepare myself better for the next shot at it.

ASR (approach radar) is an authorized substitute for a Final Approach Fix but I don't recall ever seeing that it was an authorized substitute for a Missed Approach Point. I guess the RADAR coverage there is at least good enough to see down to the MDA. Is the RADAR Antennae on the airport there? I'm pretty sure that Approach is just not authorized without DME.
 
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The VOR 1 was off in the plane by about 2.5 degrees. That is what threw me off course, and I never recovered from that.
2.5 degrees at 20 miles from the VOR is less than one mile off course, not the "several miles" you originally said ATC said, so something else must have been involved.
 
2.5 degrees at 20 miles from the VOR is less than one mile off course, not the "several miles" you originally said ATC said, so something else must have been involved.

And 2.5 degrees is well within the permitted +/-4 degree tolerance on the 30 day VOR check. My guess is that most VOR indicators in the field have at least that much slop on average.
 
on my first checkride, I was close to 30 miles from the station when I was vectored on course. 2.5 degrees error on the VOR, plus me having the OBI off by a degree or two adds up. I checked the pilot controller glossary and there is no definition of 'several', so it's possible that she really meant 1 or 2?

I discussed the legality of flying the approach this way and the DPE agreed that its an emergency scenario. Since we had the equipment (but weren't using it), he feels we are technically legal.
 
on my first checkride, I was close to 30 miles from the station when I was vectored on course. 2.5 degrees error on the VOR, plus me having the OBI off by a degree or two adds up. I checked the pilot controller glossary and there is no definition of 'several', so it's possible that she really meant 1 or 2?

I discussed the legality of flying the approach this way and the DPE agreed that its an emergency scenario. Since we had the equipment (but weren't using it), he feels we are technically legal.

What an utterly ridiculous comment: "Since we had the equipment, (but weren't using it), he feels we are technically legal." That's like covering up an altimeter and busting an altitude--but we were legal, we had a sensitive altimeter and it was set to the current altimeter setting, we just weren't using it. Good luck using that argument if you ever get violated.
 
on my first checkride, I was close to 30 miles from the station when I was vectored on course. 2.5 degrees error on the VOR, plus me having the OBI off by a degree or two adds up. I checked the pilot controller glossary and there is no definition of 'several', so it's possible that she really meant 1 or 2?

I discussed the legality of flying the approach this way and the DPE agreed that its an emergency scenario. Since we had the equipment (but weren't using it), he feels we are technically legal.
If true, this is more evidence that this DPE needs retraining or de-designation. Again, bring this to the FSDO's attention so they can look into the situation.
 
Where did you take your checkride? Sounds like the dpe should be able to state why you were off course if he is going to fail you for it.
 
The whole thing doesn't make sense when read in totality. Very fishy if you ask me. As always, I could be wrong, but I'm betting there is more to this story.
 
What is fishy about it? I've tried to be objective about it, and of course my version of events is going to be biased, but it feels weird to basically be called a liar by a stranger on the internet!
 
on my first checkride, I was close to 30 miles from the station when I was vectored on course. 2.5 degrees error on the VOR, plus me having the OBI off by a degree or two adds up. I checked the pilot controller glossary and there is no definition of 'several', so it's possible that she really meant 1 or 2?
At 30 miles a 2.5 degree deviation would put you 1.3 miles off course. I don't see that as "several" unless the controller was exaggerating, which seems unlikely. I think there is something here that you don't understand. If it happened to me, I wouldn't fly in actual unless I was damned sure I understood what the problem was, and that it was fixed, if it was an instrument issue.
I discussed the legality of flying the approach this way and the DPE agreed that its an emergency scenario. Since we had the equipment (but weren't using it), he feels we are technically legal.
Of course it was "technically" legal. You were VFR, weren't you? "Technically", my DPE was correct when he refused to stop badgering me with questions about my portable CO monitor while I was flying the ILS, since I could rip off the hood and continue visually if I wanted. The more pertinent question is whether he could require you to fly that approach, as a non-partial-panel approach, as part of the checkride, without allowing you to use equipment required for the approach. I can't point to chapter and verse at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. And if you're saying he was having you do that one without DME as a partial panel approach, I'd suggest looking up partial panel in the PTS (or "primary display INOP", which is what it's called now IIRC) as I don't think failing just the DME qualifies.

I realize you have a strong disincentive to report him to the FSDO, since if they yank his designation it could lead to your being retested. But if what you're saying is true, you have a difficult decision to make.
 
One thing that catches my attention... Vectored to the VOR final approach course and you are 30 miles from the station..?? I'm sure somebody here will come up with examples that meet that criteria, but I don't believe I've actually flown one.
 
One thing that catches my attention... Vectored to the VOR final approach course and you are 30 miles from the station..?? I'm sure somebody here will come up with examples that meet that criteria, but I don't believe I've actually flown one.

not the final approach course but one of the IAF for the LAR VOR/DME rwy 30 is 28.8 miles. The DME arc is 18 miles...and it puts you right over the rocks...
 
Failing your source of distance measuring on an approach requiring DME? You should have asked for another approach, perhaps vectors to intercept the localizer. Sounds like a DPE just being a ******** or testing whether or not you would terminate the approach using good judgement. Either way, the past is the past. Get em next time.
 
Could he just have been testing your reactions to distractions/peer pressure by "forcing" you to continue an approach that is not legal on your first checkride?
 
Could he just have been testing your reactions to distractions/peer pressure by "forcing" you to continue an approach that is not legal on your first checkride?

That would seem to veer far away from reasonable distraction into intentional deception which would be outta line for a DPE regardless of how he may interpret the rules.
 
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