FAA shutdown may last through August

they have a white bar in the legend, but I see no white bar in the graph.

The big report also appears to contradict itself.

Page 28 vs page 116
 
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EdFred said:
0:1 I don't spend what I don't have.
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So is mine. But that is not indicative of the mean nor average of the US population nor does it even reflect what is generally considered acceptable or even prudent by most financial advisors. Mainly because I don't own real estate, at least not personally. Many people do. The government owns real assets too.
 
Doggtyred said:
Electric cars DO shift the carbon footprint from gas fired engines the electrical grid.
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No argument there. But the carbon footprint of cars isn't just about the energy they use. It's also (and often, much more significantly so depending on how much you drive) about how much the car impacts the environment while it's being built. And then recycled. That's where current electric cars fall short.
 
No one's mentioned the necessary upgrades to the typical suburban electrical grid that will be passed along eventually in the electrical costs too.

The pole transformer two houses down isn't going to handle the entire street charging even one car each, let alone two.

Many older houses will need feed and panel upgrades too, since many are only 100A service via aluminum + steel cable support drop feeds.

There's no math that works with purely electric cars being cheaper. And instead of at least having a tiny bit of competition in fuel purchases, you lock yourself to a single vendor who has the Public Utility regulators completely sewn up and paid for in their back pockets when it comes time for rate increases.

Ever seen a big power company miss a Dividend payment to shareholders? Rarely. If ever.

I don't want a bigger and stronger monopoly than oil or telco as my only vehicle "fueling" choice. Yikes.
 
denverpilot said:
No one's mentioned the necessary upgrades to the typical suburban electrical grid that will be passed along eventually in the electrical costs too.

The pole transformer two houses down isn't going to handle the entire street charging even one car each, let alone two.

Many older houses will need feed and panel upgrades too, since many are only 100A service via aluminum + steel cable support drop feeds.

There's no math that works with purely electric cars being cheaper. And instead of at least having a tiny bit of competition in fuel purchases, you lock yourself to a single vendor who has the Public Utility regulators completely sewn up and paid for in their back pockets when it comes time for rate increases.

Ever seen a big power company miss a Dividend payment to shareholders? Rarely. If ever.

I don't want a bigger and stronger monopoly than oil or telco as my only vehicle "fueling" choice. Yikes.
Click to expand...


You mean the infrastructure that supports electric dryers, A/C units, electric stoves, hair dryers, a bazzillion lights inside and outside the house can't handle charging an electric car?
 
sba55 said:
No argument there. But the carbon footprint of cars isn't just about the energy they use.
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God grief I'm sick of hearing this trite, made-up, phoney-baloney, end-of-the-world phrase.

:vomit:

I'm so tired of it I'm making it my life's ambition to impose the largest footprint possible....

:thumbsup:
 
Bob Noel said:
You mean the infrastructure that supports electric dryers, A/C units, electric stoves, hair dryers, a bazzillion lights inside and outside the house can't handle charging an electric car?
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I think the problem is not that the grid can't handle a few electric cars but that that it would be overloaded if everyone, or a large majority of people, had electric cars. Of course the person I heard this from promotes a different source of energy...
 
Everskyward said:
I think the problem is not that the grid can't handle a few electric cars but that that it would be overloaded if everyone, or a large majority of people, had electric cars. Of course the person I heard this from promotes a different source of energy...
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And those electric cars aren't going to do squat when it's below freezing. I'm supposed to drive in a parka, gore-tex boots, etc? They are not going to be able to keep the car warm, and get you where you are going. I'm going to want to see them pull 2 snowmobiles 500 miles one way, while keeping me warm and only making one 10 minute stop to refuel.
 
EdFred said:
I'm going to want to see them pull 2 snowmobiles 500 miles one way, while keeping me warm and only making one 10 minute stop to refuel.
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The enviro-weenies will let you know what you should and should not be doing. Trampling snow with fossil-fueled machines is NOT acceptable!!!
 
dmccormack said:
The enviro-weenies will let you know what you should and should not be doing. Trampling snow with fossil-fueled machines is NOT acceptable!!!
Click to expand...

In the winter I'll be perfectly happy working from home. :)
 
EdFred said:
And those electric cars aren't going to do squat when it's below freezing. I'm supposed to drive in a parka, gore-tex boots, etc? They are not going to be able to keep the car warm, and get you where you are going. I'm going to want to see them pull 2 snowmobiles 500 miles one way, while keeping me warm and only making one 10 minute stop to refuel.
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Electric vehicles won't do that (probably ever in our lifetime).

I attended an engine symposium this summer, and surprise the hot topic was alternative fuels and energy. One presenter summed it up the best....... Were not developing technology (electric cars) to replace everything, were optimizing tech for the right purpose.

Over the road trucks...... turbo diesel engines (traditional or bio-diesel) is still the best.

City driving....... electric 2 man vehicles (automated), small, lightweight, slower, lots of charging points.

City fringes....... hybrid, gas/electric, hydrogen/electric, bio-diesel/electric, etc.

The goal is to reduce energy consumption by optimizing the vehicle or transportation system for the location / person. This might mean your daily commuter is going to be a 2 seat hybrid or electric car. But there will still be a use and need for the IC engine.

The traditional Naturally aspirated gasoline engine will be a distant memory though. You will probably be pulling your snowmobiles with a 1.8L high boost turbo diesel with dual fuel injection. (Not flex fuel, but dual........ like diesel and gasoline).
 
TripleZ said:
Electric vehicles won't do that (probably ever in our lifetime).

I attended an engine symposium this summer, and surprise the hot topic was alternative fuels and energy. One presenter summed it up the best....... Were not developing technology (electric cars) to replace everything, were optimizing tech for the right purpose.

Over the road trucks...... turbo diesel engines (traditional or bio-diesel) is still the best.

City driving....... electric 2 man vehicles (automated), small, lightweight, slower, lots of charging points.

City fringes....... hybrid, gas/electric, hydrogen/electric, bio-diesel/electric, etc.

The goal is to reduce energy consumption by optimizing the vehicle or transportation system for the location / person. This might mean your daily commuter is going to be a 2 seat hybrid or electric car. But there will still be a use and need for the IC engine.

The traditional Naturally aspirated gasoline engine will be a distant memory though. You will probably be pulling your snowmobiles with a 1.8L high boost turbo diesel with dual fuel injection. (Not flex fuel, but dual........ like diesel and gasoline).
Click to expand...

So we'll need bigger garages or user replaceable power plants or the rental companies will become big winners.
 
gprellwitz said:
So we'll need bigger garages or user replaceable power plants or the rental companies will become big winners.
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Yup, that's the way I see it. I've got a sports car for summer, a Smart Car for daily commuting, and I rent or borrow a truck when I need to haul or tow something.

I can easily justify the cost of the rental for the truck, by the gas I save not commuting with one or doing the maintenance on a 3rd vehicle that just sits.


A VP at GM that did a speech had a slightly different vision. They were planning on using small electric two man vehicles that you "rent" for commuting and traveling. All automated, so if you need to carry 4 people, 2 vehicles show up at your door. Instead of a vehicle being used 2hrs a day, it would be used up to 20hrs. Connected to a server, it would know where parking spots were available and park itself (up to 30% of fuel burned in the city is looking for a parking spot).

You could also have automated tow vehicles, small diesel engines, or electric that trade-off for charging. Call for a tow vehicle at Home Depot, load up the lumber, it takes it home for you, then is reused by the next person.

A little more communistic than I would prefer, since you never "own" the vehicle, but efficient from a transportation standpoint.
 
TripleZ said:
Yup, that's the way I see it. I've got a sports car for summer, a Smart Car for daily commuting, and I rent or borrow a truck when I need to haul or tow something.

I can easily justify the cost of the rental for the truck, by the gas I save not commuting with one or doing the maintenance on a 3rd vehicle that just sits.


A VP at GM that did a speech had a slightly different vision. They were planning on using small electric two man vehicles that you "rent" for commuting and traveling. All automated, so if you need to carry 4 people, 2 vehicles show up at your door. Instead of a vehicle being used 2hrs a day, it would be used up to 20hrs. Connected to a server, it would know where parking spots were available and park itself (up to 30% of fuel burned in the city is looking for a parking spot).

You could also have automated tow vehicles, small diesel engines, or electric that trade-off for charging. Call for a tow vehicle at Home Depot, load up the lumber, it takes it home for you, then is reused by the next person.

A little more communistic than I would prefer, since you never "own" the vehicle, but efficient from a transportation standpoint.
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That's because people are lazy, and won't walk more than 17 steps to wherever they are going.
 
EdFred said:
And those electric cars aren't going to do squat when it's below freezing. I'm supposed to drive in a parka, gore-tex boots, etc? They are not going to be able to keep the car warm
Click to expand...

Frankly, an electric heater would be more than welcome. Then I wouldn't have to run my car for 20 minutes without moving to have a reasonable temperature when I got in it. I've always thought it would be nice to have some hair-dryer-style heating coils in my car's vents to start kicking heat out right away instead of waiting for the engine to warm up.

All-electric isn't gonna have great range, though, because the "fuel" is VERY heavy. Your scenario might be possible using batteries the size of the ones used in electric forklifts - You wouldn't own the battery, it'd be like propane tanks where you exchange it at a gas station. Drive up to the station, drive up to the battery loader, pull the used up battery and install a freshly charged one and you'd be back on the road in well under 10 minutes. It'd be faster than gassing up a car.
 
I'm still looking for one of those electric or hybrid cars that will get up the hill from our house when it snows. The only vehicles that have done it reliably (and people in the neighborhood have tried with others) are our Jeeps. I suspect other high ground clearance 4wd vehicles would, too. But single axle drive (front or rear, it doesn't matter) just get stuck.

Boy, we sure drifted from the FAA, didn't we? :D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Frankly, an electric heater would be more than welcome. Then I wouldn't have to run my car for 20 minutes without moving to have a reasonable temperature when I got in it. I've always thought it would be nice to have some hair-dryer-style heating coils in my car's vents to start kicking heat out right away instead of waiting for the engine to warm up.

All-electric isn't gonna have great range, though, because the "fuel" is VERY heavy. Your scenario might be possible using batteries the size of the ones used in electric forklifts - You wouldn't own the battery, it'd be like propane tanks where you exchange it at a gas station. Drive up to the station, drive up to the battery loader, pull the used up battery and install a freshly charged one and you'd be back on the road in well under 10 minutes. It'd be faster than gassing up a car.
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My S-10 and my Colorado kick(ed) out heat right away. If I didn't let the car warm up first within 3 minutes I had sauna like temps being blown out the vents. The issue with electric heat in an electric car...you want to stay warm you just killed your range.
As far as the battery replacement in 10 minutes yeah right. The battery pack in our forklift at work is 16x 24 or 36v batteries all linked together. The swap on that takes an afternoon and weighs enough that you need another lift to take them all out at once.

Electric is a pipe dream for people that don't live in reality.
 
EdFred said:
As far as the battery replacement in 10 minutes yeah right. The battery pack in our forklift at work is 16x 24 or 36v batteries all linked together. The swap on that takes an afternoon and weighs enough that you need another lift to take them all out at once.
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Facilities that use lots of electric forklifts and operate 24x7 generally have a charging station where all the batteries go when they're not being used. Pull the plug at the end of the battery cable, then there's another machine that pulls the battery out the side of the forklift, they deposit the battery in an empty slot on the charging rack, grab a charged one from its slot, slide it in, plug in the cable, back in business. Happens in well under 10 minutes.

That's basically what I'm envisioning as the "solution" - Gas stations would have a charging rack and a couple of the battery-rollers.

Here's a guy who does it in under 3 1/2 minutes - You can see the charging rack in the background. This is a fancier system than I've seen, I've only seen ones with a single battery slot so you'd pull the old battery, find an open spot on the charging rack, grab the new battery, and install it. In this one, with the dual slot, he can grab a new battery first, pull the old one, put in the new one, and then return the old one to the charging rack.


There are several different possibilities too, as you can see here:

 
Bob Noel said:
You mean the infrastructure that supports electric dryers, A/C units, electric stoves, hair dryers, a bazzillion lights inside and outside the house can't handle charging an electric car?
Click to expand...

Many older houses in my neighborhood have had drop or panel upgrades, including mine. The panel ran out of breakers before it ran out of load in my case, when the previous owner finished out the basement electrical system in an unfinished basement.

Load-wise, if every circuit is drawing rated power and the outdoor RV receptacle is also, the drop itself is maxed out from the pole.

Do upgrades to three houses on this side of the street to charge an EV off of 220 in the garage and the pole transformer is maxed out.

This ripples back throughout the grid.

Xcel is just finishing up four new coal-fired units in Pueblo, too.
 
denverpilot said:
Many older houses in my neighborhood have had drop or panel upgrades, including mine. The panel ran out of breakers before it ran out of load in my case, when the previous owner finished out the basement electrical system in an unfinished basement.

Load-wise, if every circuit is drawing rated power and the outdoor RV receptacle is also, the drop itself is maxed out from the pole.

Do upgrades to three houses on this side of the street to charge an EV off of 220 in the garage and the pole transformer is maxed out.

This ripples back throughout the grid.

Xcel is just finishing up four new coal-fired units in Pueblo, too.
Click to expand...


I'm having trouble understanding how a panel runs out of room for breakers before it runs out of load. I'm not an electrician, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express anytime in the last year, but I figure a 60amp panel with 8 15 amp circuit slots would actually run out load before breakers. That is, you can't simultaneously do a max draw on all circuits in the panel.

What's the load on the infrastructure for an electric dryer? What about electric heat? What about a couple of AC units for central air? What about the electric water heaters?

If we believe the claims that the electric vehicle will, on average, use about $1.50/day of electricity (claim by Chevy for the Volt), then I'm confused as to how this amount of electrical use is going to take down the electric grid.
 
SkyHog said:
Highways should also be funded by states, rather than federal funds, except where the highway lays on federal land.

Really, almost everything should be borne by the states. That keeps the fine people of Idaho from paying for a brand new project in New York from which Idahoans will never benefit.
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But that's not true, just as it is not true that a bridge built in Nebraska does not benefit those in New York or Los Angeles. This is a nation of mobility and commerce. The transportation infrastructure is of national importance and always has been. This is evidenced all the way back to the railroads being deeded sovereign land so no one could interfere with them. The Interstate highway structure we have now was developed for the rapid deployment of troops and war materials throughout the country. Eisenhower got to Europe, saw the Autobahns and said "We need these". Note how all the major military installations are connected. If you leave transportation to the states, you will see tolls everywhere, including airports. Every state will have their own user fee.
 
EdFred said:
And those electric cars aren't going to do squat when it's below freezing. I'm supposed to drive in a parka, gore-tex boots, etc? They are not going to be able to keep the car warm, and get you where you are going. I'm going to want to see them pull 2 snowmobiles 500 miles one way, while keeping me warm and only making one 10 minute stop to refuel.
Click to expand...


:idea::idea:Don't live where it's freezing.....:yesnod:
 
Henning said:
But that's not true, just as it is not true that a bridge built in Nebraska does not benefit those in New York or Los Angeles.
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I'll agree that a bridge built in Nebraska will probably benefit even people in NYC or LA. However, the primary benefit will be to who? Who will benefit most?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Frankly, an electric heater would be more than welcome.
Click to expand...

You're from the Milwaukee area. So am I, originally.

This coming January, when the temperature is below zero, run an extension cord outside, take a blow dryer out to your car, turn it on, and leave it on, full blast, for a few minutes.

You will barely feel it. The number of BTUs coming out by those things is insufficient in Northern climes. I know -- I owned a Volkswagen with no heat back in the late 70s, and tried to defrost my windshield with a blow dryer. It took FOREVER to clear a little hole to see through.

Pure electric cars will not work in your area in the winter, simply because the occupants will freeze to death.

I'm hoping they work down here on the island, but the air conditioning demands may be overwhelming.
 
Jay Honeck said:
You're from the Milwaukee area. So am I, originally.

This coming January, when the temperature is below zero, run an extension cord outside, take a blow dryer out to your car, turn it on, and leave it on, full blast, for a few minutes.

You will barely feel it. The number of BTUs coming out by those things is insufficient in Northern climes. I know -- I owned a Volkswagen with no heat back in the late 70s, and tried to defrost my windshield with a blow dryer. It took FOREVER to clear a little hole to see through.

Pure electric cars will not work in your area in the winter, simply because the occupants will freeze to death.

I'm hoping they work down here on the island, but the air conditioning demands may be overwhelming.
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On the other hand I know people who heat their house with electricity, in Colorado. Their heating bills are huge, however.
 
Jay Honeck said:
You're from the Milwaukee area. So am I, originally.

This coming January, when the temperature is below zero, run an extension cord outside, take a blow dryer out to your car, turn it on, and leave it on, full blast, for a few minutes.

You will barely feel it. The number of BTUs coming out by those things is insufficient in Northern climes. I know -- I owned a Volkswagen with no heat back in the late 70s, and tried to defrost my windshield with a blow dryer. It took FOREVER to clear a little hole to see through.

Pure electric cars will not work in your area in the winter, simply because the occupants will freeze to death.

I'm hoping they work down here on the island, but the air conditioning demands may be overwhelming.
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I'm quite sure that the heaters in the electric vehicles that we are kicking out meet the same requirements for time / temperature that the gasoline vehicles must meet. Of course, running the heater will reduce your range... At least some electric vehicles have the option to pre-heat / pre-cool while still pluged in. That can make a significant difference.

Some of the diesel vehicles we build in Europe have electric heating elements to supplement the engine heat since the diesels do not heat up as quickly.

I used to put a 1500 watt electric heater inside my car with a remote switch to defrost in the morning - 30 minutes and it is quite nice inside... I don't know how many watts your hair dryer was.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Some of the diesel vehicles we build in Europe have electric heating elements to supplement the engine heat since the diesels do not heat up as quickly.
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Time to heat up is one part, total waste heat production the other. In my TDI, when it gets really cold, the heat loss from the block itself is enough to keep the engine below the thermostat range. At -20F and below, switching on the interior heat will cause the engine temp to drop at the low end of the operating range. To supplement the engine, it has a 75amp electric heater, which barely makes a dent in the ice on the windshield until engine heat kicks in. The version sold in northern europe has a little diesel furnace to provide enough heat.
 
Bob Noel said:
What's the load on the infrastructure for an electric dryer? What about electric heat? What about a couple of AC units for central air? What about the electric water heaters?
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Very few people here have any of those except the AC, and my neighborhood didn't have that when it was built in any house. Natural gas is cheap cheap cheap here. Gas dryer, gas water heater.

The houses simply weren't wired to charge an EV off of 220 VAC in the garage every night. There's lots of places like this in the U.S. You will pay for the infrastructure upgrades in higher rates as soon as EVs become significantly popular via your local electrical monopoly whining to regulators after a few substations blow up.

We're already doing "rolling blackouts" on a regular basis when the summer temperatures hit 100F anywhere west of about Kansas. That's all you need to know about how "prepared" the grid out here is for EV charging.
 
As far as the diesels go, our Jetta TDI has an electric glow plug/heater in the engine side of the anti-freeze/water system that runs until the engine block is up to temperature. It pulls close to 20A I believe, would have to go look it up in the book.

It has the side effect, since the cabin heat exchanger is on the block side, not the radiator side, of giving lukewarm air to the cabin, which is better than nothing on the coldest days, but isn't nearly as good as the Yukon, even when it has to heat up a big block V8 gas engine.

You really need to load up the TDI (get on the highway, drive around in 2nd gear) to get enough heat going to get it to operating temp. You can idle it all day and it'll never get warm.

In our climate here, parking the TDI outside on our coldest days will mean a hard start, but usually it will start... and it doesn't have a factory block heater at all. It'll rattle and carry on with making a racket until you load it up on the road to warm it up.

I would not trust it to start up at a ski area after a day of being parked outdoors up in the mountains. It might, it might not. Especially if you had to park outside overnight up there in the dead of winter.

If our weather changes too drastically in the fall, you find a lot of diesel stations with full tanks of "summer" diesel also, which will cause you problems. Best to only purchase fuel in the fall from stations that do a brisk business so the tank is constantly being refilled.
 
Jay Honeck said:
This coming January, when the temperature is below zero, run an extension cord outside, take a blow dryer out to your car, turn it on, and leave it on, full blast, for a few minutes.

You will barely feel it. The number of BTUs coming out by those things is insufficient in Northern climes.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't expect a hair dryer to do it... There would need to be coils in every vent, most likely. So, eight hair dryers at a minimum, which I bet *would* be able to heat up the car. But I think hair dryers are probably sub-optimal - They blow a large quantity of air so the air they blow isn't as warm as the slower air stream coming out of vehicle vents would be.
 
denverpilot said:
If our weather changes too drastically in the fall, you find a lot of diesel stations with full tanks of "summer" diesel also, which will cause you problems. Best to only purchase fuel in the fall from stations that do a brisk business so the tank is constantly being refilled.
Click to expand...

Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to carry a bottle of Howe's in the trunk either.
 
denverpilot said:
Very few people here have any of those except the AC, and my neighborhood didn't have that when it was built in any house. Natural gas is cheap cheap cheap here. Gas dryer, gas water heater.

The houses simply weren't wired to charge an EV off of 220 VAC in the garage every night. There's lots of places like this in the U.S. You will pay for the infrastructure upgrades in higher rates as soon as EVs become significantly popular via your local electrical monopoly whining to regulators after a few substations blow up.

We're already doing "rolling blackouts" on a regular basis when the summer temperatures hit 100F anywhere west of about Kansas. That's all you need to know about how "prepared" the grid out here is for EV charging.
Click to expand...

Well, since EV's can use 120 VAC and Chevy claims that the Chevy Volt will use, on average, $1.50/day of electricty, perhaps there is more to learn about the grid, EV's, and how prepared the grid is to support EV's.
 
Bob Noel said:
Well, since EV's can use 120 VAC and Chevy claims that the Chevy Volt will use, on average, $1.50/day of electricty, perhaps there is more to learn about the grid, EV's, and how prepared the grid is to support EV's.
Click to expand...

And POH's claim certain cruise speeds too. :D
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I wouldn't expect a hair dryer to do it... There would need to be coils in every vent, most likely. So, eight hair dryers at a minimum, which I bet *would* be able to heat up the car. But I think hair dryers are probably sub-optimal - They blow a large quantity of air so the air they blow isn't as warm as the slower air stream coming out of vehicle vents would be.
Click to expand...

Good luck running 12,000 watts worth of heat on a battery.

To put that in perspective, I've got two Honda gas generators that together put out only 4,000 watts.

Pure electric cars are a no-go in cold Northern Climates. They will be good 2- or 3-season vehicles, at best, above the Mason-Dixon line. (Which is why, of course, hybrids rule in the alternate-fuels race right now.)

I looked long and hard at them several years ago (remember the ZENN?), and concluded that they were simply not a viable option Up North.

Down here on the island, it's different altogether. Electric golf carts are EVERYWHERE, and I am looking at becoming the first hotel to have an EV charging station. Sadly, they are still stupidly over-priced, but competition will drive that down.
 
Bob Noel said:
Well, since EV's can use 120 VAC and Chevy claims that the Chevy Volt will use, on average, $1.50/day of electricty, perhaps there is more to learn about the grid, EV's, and how prepared the grid is to support EV's.
Click to expand...

120 VAC means something like 12 hours of charge-time, right? I haven't looked at the Volt, but the Leaf is similar and 120 VAC isn't how most people are going to charge EVs.

Let's see, they say a 16 KW/h battery is dead in 35 miles. So your commute can be 17.5 miles one-way if you can't charge at the workplace and be 100% EV. Of course, the Volt has a gas engine, so it's really a hybrid, but they claim it's "different"... okay, whatever...

Anyway, the charging station for the Volt says 3.3KW/h and the Volt takes 4 hours to charge on that, or "approximately" since temperature affects it.

A 16 KW/h battery and a device that can dish out 3.3 KW/h and charging isn't 100% efficient... comes out to over 5 hours charge time if you ask me, even hooked to 220V, but hey... Chevy's making it all up as they go along, so what the hay... we'll say 4 hours, why not. What's an hour or two amongst green friends?

https://www.homecharging.spx.com/Volt/pdf/GM10-463.pdf

Here's some folks in a similar "green" biz, who extrapolate out the current electricity rates in Colorado for some fun, but utterly BS numbers. Does kinda make me laugh that while one "green" biz tries to sell cars that charge from the grid, at night -- the other tries to get you to install solar panels by saying that electricity costs are soaring. Fun. :popcorn:

http://www.astraluxsolar.com/colorado_electricity_rates.htm

Here's a more "balanced" article with pricing from 2011, not 2008.
http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=180102

Anyway... it's going nowhere but up.

The CEO made $9.9M this year, he knows how to print cash for himself. (More power to him... whatever.) We'll round it off and call it $10M.

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/officerProfile?symbol=XEL&officerId=186719
 
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