FAA approves iPads for pilots' electronic charts

Artiom

Artiom

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Artiom
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/02/28/FAA.approves.iPads/index.html

Actually not all pilots, only Executive Jet Management but looks like a good start point :cheerswine:

The Federal Aviation Administration is allowing charter company Executive Jet Management to use Apple's tablet as an approved alternative to paper charts. The authorization follows three months of rigorous testing and evaluation of the iPad and Mobile TC, a map app developed by aviation chartmaker Jeppesen.
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If you want to pay almost $800/yr for the Jepp subscription, mighty fine, but you'll get perfectly fine utility for one tenth of the money with Foreflight, and for us regular Part 91 folks, we don't need FAA certification of our EFB's.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you want to pay almost $800/yr for the Jepp subscription, mighty fine, but you'll get perfectly fine utility for one tenth of the money with Foreflight, and for us regular Part 91 folks, we don't need FAA certification of our EFB's.
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And even for the non-part 91 folks, they don't need to waste their money on Jepp - ForeFlight has at least 35 commercial operators that now have ForeFlight on the iPad approved in their OpSpecs. :yes:
 
Ron Levy said:
If you want to pay almost $800/yr for the Jepp subscription, mighty fine, but you'll get perfectly fine utility for one tenth of the money with Foreflight, and for us regular Part 91 folks, we don't need FAA certification of our EFB's.
Click to expand...

At Amflight we only need the western half and thats 230 a year for the iPad.
 
I'm more concerned about hardware. There are plenty of software option around - starting from inexpensive SkyCharts $20/year, ForeFlight $75-$150/year and up to $800 Moblie TC. I like to have choices. As a student pilot I'm happy with SkyCharts just as always up-to-date sectional/TAC and GPS back up in case I get lost on solo XC. My CFI wants me to make a flight plan using E6B and sectional which is good for training purposes. When I get my ticket I'm planning to use ForeFlight. Don't think I'll ever spend $800/year on Jepp.
 
Flyparrothead said:
Very cool to see this, now does anyone have any experience with an iPad in flight?
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I've been using it as my chart case for almost two months. Works great -- much easier to touch-slide than to refold, too. Switching from IFR L-charts to VFR sectionals is a snap, and when you get in areas covered by TAC's, it automatically switches when you expand the display. Approach charts are far easier to pull up than by digging/flipping through binders and pulling them out. All in all, I'm absolutely thrilled with it as an EFB, and that alone is worth the price of admission -- which is returned in savings over paper charts in less than two years.
 
We recently got the Ipad with Foreflight approved for our Ops Specs. I have not used it yet because we don't have the Ipads for all the airplanes yet. I have used it on the Iphone and love it.
 
Ron Levy said:
I've been using it as my chart case for almost two months. Works great -- much easier to touch-slide than to refold, too. Switching from IFR L-charts to VFR sectionals is a snap, and when you get in areas covered by TAC's, it automatically switches when you expand the display. Approach charts are far easier to pull up than by digging/flipping through binders and pulling them out. All in all, I'm absolutely thrilled with it as an EFB, and that alone is worth the price of admission -- which is returned in savings over paper charts in less than two years.
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Thats awesome, I am waiting on the latest new from apple about the new iPad's and I am sure when the new ones are released, I will be the first one in line to get them.

For the approach plates and sectionals, do you have to connect to 3g, or are you just downloading and saving them to the memory and pulling them out for when you need the, without the internet connection?
 
Flyparrothead said:
Very cool to see this, now does anyone have any experience with an iPad in flight?
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Yup - I bought my iPad the day they shipped the 3G's, and have been using it in flight ever since - Probably ~120 hours so far.

Flyparrothead said:
Thats awesome, I am waiting on the latest new from apple about the new iPad's and I am sure when the new ones are released, I will be the first one in line to get them.
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Announced today, available in stores next Friday at 5 PM, though you may do better by going to http://store.apple.com/ RIGHT NOW and ordering one online for shipping to your door - You'll probably get it Friday morning.

For the approach plates and sectionals, do you have to connect to 3g, or are you just downloading and saving them to the memory and pulling them out for when you need the, without the internet connection?
Click to expand...

With ForeFlight, all FAA/NACO data (sectionals, Low and High enroute charts, approach plates, A/FD data, etc.) can be stored on the iPad with no need for any sort of Internet connection - Otherwise it would be basically useless in the plane. You simply pick which states you want and which types of data you want (sectionals, airport diagrams, etc.) and it'll download them all to the iPad while you're on the ground so that you have access to it when you're in the sky.

Any data that you don't download is available via 3G/WiFi but you generally won't be able to get that in the air. Also, of course, weather data, fuel prices, etc. require a 3G connection.

ForeFlight/iPad makes one heckuvan EFB. :yes:
 
Flyparrothead said:
Thats awesome, I am waiting on the latest new from apple about the new iPad's and I am sure when the new ones are released, I will be the first one in line to get them.
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Based on the press reports of the "improvements" in the iPad 2 as they relate to use as an EFB, unless the iPad 2 is cheaper :)crazy:), the line on which I think you should be is the line for discounted iPad 1's.

For the approach plates and sectionals, do you have to connect to 3g, or are you just downloading and saving them to the memory and pulling them out for when you need the, without the internet connection?
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They're available for download a couple of days before the beginning of the next cycle (push one button to commence download -- takes a few hours to get all US charts -- works easily overnight as long as there's a connection), and at 0901Z, they take precedence over the old cycle. After that, all the chart data are retrieved from memory.
 
Everskyward said:
So have you done that already? :rofl:
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Nope. I don't need cameras, HDMI, or gyroscope, and my iPad is plenty fast for me.

As much as I like the iStuff, I don't always run out to get the latest and greatest. I have a 17" MacBook Pro that's about a year and a half old, working fine and plenty fast, no desire to replace it yet. I have my 10-month-old iPad, it still does everything today that it did yesterday when it was still the greatest thing available. ;) My iPhone is also a year and a half old, and it feels the longest in the tooth of the three - I'll trade it in when the "iPhone 5" or whatever they call it comes out this summer.

So, I guess I'll probably alternate years on the iPhone and iPad, and buy a new computer when the old one starts feeling slow. But the last two were still plenty usable when they croaked due to physical problems - One in the bad truck accident I had a few years ago, and one when both sides of the display bezel broke - The current physical "unibody" design is MUCH stronger, and I expect I'll get ~4 years out of it before I need a new one.

I might decide that I "need" a 27" iMac for flight-simming and home media consumption before then, though. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Nope. I don't need cameras, HDMI, or gyroscope, and my iPad is plenty fast for me.
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If you're not getting one, then who's going to be able to tell us that iPad2 + Foreflight is pure magic?

Seriously, I'm just starting on my IFR and would much rather get an iPad + Foreflight than paper charts. I want to see what the reviews say between getting an iPad2 or a cheap refurbished iPad.
 
bluesky74656 said:
Seriously, I'm just starting on my IFR and would much rather get an iPad + Foreflight than paper charts. I want to see what the reviews say between getting an iPad2 or a cheap refurbished iPad.
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You're going to have to decide very quickly. The cheap refurbs are generally gone in VERY short order when new models come out. Chances are, by this time next month you'll see iPad 2 refurbs available instead.
 
Can you print plates from the iPad/Foreflight? If I'm gonna replace a PC-based EFB with the iPad, it needs to do this.

I'm looking at a product called ChartFlier (was mentioned in the latest AOPA mag) and it's not bad - they don't print yet either but it's in the code for the March release.
 
TMetzinger said:
Can you print plates from the iPad/Foreflight? If I'm gonna replace a PC-based EFB with the iPad, it needs to do this.

I'm looking at a product called ChartFlier (was mentioned in the latest AOPA mag) and it's not bad - they don't print yet either but it's in the code for the March release.
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Print?? For what? :D

Printing from iStuff is possible right now, but it has to be supported by the application and you have to have a AirPrint compatible printer (or suitable workaround...which do exist).
 
The only thing that holds me back is the lack of xm weather....then Im in
It wouldnt be that hard to have a USB XM puck that can plug in and sit on the dash.
 
TMetzinger said:
Can you print plates from the iPad/Foreflight? If I'm gonna replace a PC-based EFB with the iPad, it needs to do this.
Click to expand...

FlyNE said:
Print?? For what? :D

Printing from iStuff is possible right now, but it has to be supported by the application and you have to have a AirPrint compatible printer (or suitable workaround...which do exist).
Click to expand...

And ForeFlight *does* support printing plates. That was one of the new features in 3.8, IIRC. :thumbsup:

Tim... Enjoy your new iPad. ;)
 
Good point on the AirPrint. I installed a hack found in 5 minutes via Google on one of the home Macs that makes it emulate an AirPrint printer on the WiFi network.

Thus it "shares" any printer connected to the machine. The printers are connected to that machine via WiFi also... one's in the basement hanging off of the USB port of the Time Capsule, the other is an HP with its own WiFi built in. Zero problems printing from iPhone or iPad when theyr'e on the home WiFi.

Don't expect to print charts away from home unless there's an AirPrint compatible printer, or you're bringing along your PC or Mac to emulate one, and hook it to the printer. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Good point on the AirPrint. I installed a hack found in 5 minutes via Google on one of the home Macs that makes it emulate an AirPrint printer on the WiFi network.

Thus it "shares" any printer connected to the machine. The printers are connected to that machine via WiFi also... one's in the basement hanging off of the USB port of the Time Capsule, the other is an HP with its own WiFi built in. Zero problems printing from iPhone or iPad when theyr'e on the home WiFi.

Don't expect to print charts away from home unless there's an AirPrint compatible printer, or you're bringing along your PC or Mac to emulate one, and hook it to the printer. :)
Click to expand...

Yup, and they have versions of that emulator for both Macs and PCs at this point.
 
denverpilot said:
Don't expect to print charts away from home unless there's an AirPrint compatible printer, or you're bringing along your PC or Mac to emulate one, and hook it to the printer. :)
Click to expand...

Not to mention - Even if ForeFlight couldn't print the plates, you can get the PDF's for free in several places online and print them that way. No need to get fancy and cart around a laptop too, any ol' place with an internet-connected computer and printer can do the same.
 
TMetzinger said:
Can you print plates from the iPad/Foreflight? If I'm gonna replace a PC-based EFB with the iPad, it needs to do this.

I'm looking at a product called ChartFlier (was mentioned in the latest AOPA mag) and it's not bad - they don't print yet either but it's in the code for the March release.
Click to expand...

Essential Flight has their Chartflier software and a Bluetooth GPS for $125.00 at FLYR.

http://www.flyronline.com/deals/mar11/chartflier-and-bluetooth-gps.html

They also have support for ADS-B weather.

Safe flying!
 
Just to make it clear - listed GPS receiver BT-359 does not support ADS-B. In order to use ADS-B weather in cockpit you have to buy ADS-B receiver which is around $1k.

However it might be a cheapest EFB if you buy basic WiFi only iPad for $300 which I have seen reports yesterday Verizon sells, add refurbished BT-359 receiver for $30 and ForeFlight 1 year subscription for $75. Total $405 buys you decent EFB.
http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/verizon-selling-original-ipad-starting-at-300-while-supplies-last-20110326/
 
Artiom said:
Just to make it clear - listed GPS receiver BT-359 does not support ADS-B. In order to use ADS-B weather in cockpit you have to buy ADS-B receiver which is around $1k.

However it might be a cheapest EFB if you buy basic WiFi only iPad for $300 which I have seen reports yesterday Verizon sells, add refurbished BT-359 receiver for $30 and ForeFlight 1 year subscription for $75. Total $405 buys you decent EFB.
http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/verizon-selling-original-ipad-starting-at-300-while-supplies-last-20110326/
Click to expand...

I had never heard of the BT-359. Does anybody have a reference as to whether or not it's supported natively by the iPad and Foreflight for Georef approach plates? I've only ever seen the bad elf and the GNS 5870 mentioned.
 
Scrap the internal GPS in the Ipad...the Bad Elf GPS works flawlessly! Took my 32gig non-3G wifi-only up with the Bad Elf GPS next to my friends 32gig wifi/3G Ipad...the difference was startling.

No need to buy the 3G Ipad, the Bad Elf GPS was selling on Amazon for $99.00
 
DutchessFlier said:
Scrap the internal GPS in the Ipad...the Bad Elf GPS works flawlessly! Took my 32gig non-3G wifi-only up with the Bad Elf GPS next to my friends 32gig wifi/3G Ipad...the difference was startling.

No need to buy the 3G Ipad, the Bad Elf GPS was selling on Amazon for $99.00
Click to expand...

Does it get in the way sticking out of the bottom? That's the only thing I'd worry about. I feel like I'd want to get a short dock connector to "make the connection flexible". Also, how does it impact battery life?
 
I ordered the bad elf for my 32gig wifi iPad 2. I have been using jeppview and foreflight for some time one(first iPad). I have not done this but from foreflight you can print plates as far as I know. I fly for a 135 operation and I'm looking forward to using the bad elf with my iPad now.
 
I was worried about that thing sticking out of the bottom also so I ordered the GNS 5870 bluetooth GPS and it works great for $99 off Amazon.
 
+1 for the GNS 5870. Got mine last week. Turn it on, throw it up on the dash & forget about it. Works great.
It's a PITA to turn off, though. About 47 "swipes" finally finds the magic speed/pressure to make it work. Ah, well.
 
Apple Annoyance: I already own an iBlue 737 A+. Wish it would frakkin' work with Apple devices. Works fine with everything else. :(

Does make for a nifty flight logger though.
 
FlyNE said:
Does it get in the way sticking out of the bottom? That's the only thing I'd worry about. I feel like I'd want to get a short dock connector to "make the connection flexible". Also, how does it impact battery life?
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Just rotate the iPad so the GPS is at the top. Then it's out of the way and gets better reception.
 
gismo said:
Just rotate the iPad so the GPS is at the top. Then it's out of the way and gets better reception.
Click to expand...

That's what I was planning on doing. Plus, then my smart cover would be on the right side and I could stick a kneeboard to the magnets and write on it.
 
Speaking of magnets - Has anyone tested to see how close the iPad needs to get to the mag compass before it starts affecting the compass reading? It seems that the magnets must be fairly strong, and it doesn't take much at all to affect the compass - I even found that a Sporty's Clipstick messed up the compass due to the springs in the clips using ferrous metal. :eek: So I'm a bit leery of the magnets on the iPad 2 being in the cockpit at all!
 
Call me "late to the party", but . . . I just ordered an iPad 1 32 Gig from Verizon today--basically on faith (especially after reading some of these posts). $399, in stock, free overnight shipping.

I have to admit, I'm nervous about having an electronic "toy" holding my charts. [Call me old school, but I think I'll still want to keep the paper stuff in my flight bag, too. Belt + suspenders kinda guy.]

Question:
Anyone got a link for a student pilot and newbie iPad technophiliac on getting up-to-speed on using my new iPad for my flying needs? [Fret not, I'm talking POST-PPL ticket.] Most of you are talking a few klicks ahead of me right now.

Thx in advance. :crazy:
 
Bravo3,
You probably ordered WiFi only variant of iPad. That variant doesn't have internal GPS. You will have to buy external GPS to use georeferenced charts. Check out ForeFlight web site - they have couple recommended models. Also ForeFlight has reputation of the best yet affordable EFB. Requires $75/year subscription.
Cheaper but very good alternative is SkyCharts Pro - $20/year gets you moving map, METAR/TAF if you have access to the Internet, builtin A/FD, etc.
AeroWeather is my favorite app to check weather.
FlightScale is very convenient W&B app.
I believe that will get you started. Let us know if you have questions or need help with your new toy.
 
Artiom said:
Bravo3,
You probably ordered WiFi only variant of iPad. That variant doesn't have internal GPS. You will have to buy external GPS to use georeferenced charts. Check out ForeFlight web site - they have couple recommended models. Also ForeFlight has reputation of the best yet affordable EFB. Requires $75/year subscription.
Cheaper but very good alternative is SkyCharts Pro - $20/year gets you moving map, METAR/TAF if you have access to the Internet, builtin A/FD, etc.
AeroWeather is my favorite app to check weather.
FlightScale is very convenient W&B app.
I believe that will get you started. Let us know if you have questions or need help with your new toy.
Click to expand...
No, if (s)he ordered it from Verizon, it's a 3G model. Therefore it includes a built-in GPS. Of course, the models mentioned on ForeFlight's site are superior, as long as one doesn't mind the additional piece of hardware.
 
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