FAA approch to dual-DUI

steingar said:
They’re somewhat rarer on the ground than you might expect. Most rehabilitation clinics are little more than scams to get insurance money. In a truly crowning irony Obama’s former Drig Czar recently had to deal with an addiction problem in his child and couldn’t figure out where to turn.

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Yep. But I wasn't talking about your average rehab clinic. The real deal is probably rare, but with some research it should be possible to find one even today. Hopefully, in a decade or two, as the evidence becomes better known, MDs with a specialty in addiction medicine and who practice according to the best evidence won't be quite as hard to find.
 
Palmpilot said:
Is that affiliated with NAMBLA? :devil:
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National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes..???

4x05-Cartman-Joins-NAMBLA-south-park-21380956-720-540.jpg
 
Been reading this and the other DUI threads. Have been studying for Ground School test and then planned to get class 3 med before flight training and never gave thought to my own DUI conviction back in 1992.
After reading these thread, am demoralized that something from my distant past will still affect my future. I personally worked very long and hard to change that "Wisconsin lifestyle". Divorce, remarried to the most wonderful woman I could have ever met, moved to new state, new career.
I sent Dr. Chien an introductory email.
 
You are on the right track. It is entirely possible, you just have to be committed about getting it all done.
 
Clip4 said:
Why does a pilot getting a 2nd DUI has rehab option and a CDL holder doesn’t? Guess the Airline Pilots Association has more pull with the Department of Transportation than the Teamsters.
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Not quite. Airlines have non-DOT testing. But they also get hit twice a year among them with DOT testing.

If he pops 2 DOT tests positive, he can't even drive a bus. Not all tests are the same.
 
My employer employs some of the Docs you get to talk to, to plead your case for those DOT tests and employment tests. If you make it past the standard questions asked in the call center, that is.

You have the “right” to talk to a Doc after a positive test, and most people get notified by the call center they tested positive and don’t fight it. A few ask for the split sample to be re-tested and then stop.

Only the really crazy cases make it all the way to the Docs. There’s a queue waiting to talk to the Docs from 6A to 6P when the phone system shuts off the calls.

We’re expanding at a healthy clip. I haven’t been flying much lately, planning the IT integration of a company they bought, bigger phone system, upgrading the other IT systems, automating as much of our Infrastructure as we can, etc.

Granted, we’re clearly understaffed on the IT side of things now, but suffice it to say, we’d still be busy even at full staffing. The call center is setting record numbers of calls.

Economy is up, so people have a little extra cash after their massive personal debt payments, to buy their drugs of choice.

Much of the need for a phone system upgrade is the number of calls on hold.

Pro tip: Don’t call about a positive drug or alcohol test on a Monday... you’ll be on hold much longer than any other day of the week.

I can tell you this, from hearing the stories around our office, the FAA hasn’t got a chance in hell of being any sorts of experts on the topic of addiction.

The Docs we have on staff are, and most of them have been doing it for most of their careers, and they have no answers. They’re as shocked by some of the behaviors as anyone. The behaviors just get so incredibly bad they even go beyond their normal tolerance levels for being surprised.

One Doc got into addiction work from being an autopsy Doc. Autopsy after autopsy of dead addicts led her to being more interested in the front-end of the addiction process than the results. Go figure.

The number of warnings the Docs have to do for “concerns about self harm” after speaking to the addicts of all sorts, would boggle most people’s minds. And it doesn’t really even matter much which drug (alcohol is a drug) it is.
 
denverpilot said:
Pro tip: Don’t call about a positive drug or alcohol test on a Monday... you’ll be on hold much longer than any other day of the week.
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Don't call any call center for any reason on Monday. What a disaster.
The number of warnings the Docs have to do for “concerns about self harm” after speaking to the addicts of all sorts, would boggle most people’s minds. And it doesn’t really even matter much which drug (alcohol is a drug) it is.
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Time for a laugh amidst this very serious topic...When I was discharged from the hospital after knee replacement (mid-May this year), the discharge nurse had all sorts of paperwork to go over and me to sign. Also in the room was my closest friend of over 20 years, a retired ICU nurse. The discharge nurse was appalled when she read the last 2 pages, pages she claims she'd never seen before. It was an evaluation about suicide and self-harm. All 3 of us were baffled. My standard comment when asked (the ERs are getting very serious about this - "Do you have thoughts of self-harm or suicide?") is "Are you kidding? And miss seeing how bad JJ Abrams screws up the next Star Trek/Star Wars Movie? "

[sidebar - for those of us ST fans, the second reboot ST film was better known as "SLens Flare, The Sequel"]

Of course now the better response is "What?! And miss seeing how Disney's going to knock off the tree-hugging eco-terrorist Thanos next spring?!"
 
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So what is the approach to 3 duis in a 5 year period. went 4 years and then got 2nd and 3rd very close together. been sober almost a year year with monthly testing. i am sure there is a long way to go. I plan to pay the private probation company to keep doing ransoms every month for me. i was thinking it could take many years.

thanks!
 
Formal rehab, then 90 AAs in 90 days, then 2/wk AAs, weekly group aftercare, urine proven sobriety x 7-9 months, then HIMS psychiatrist and HIMS neurospcyhologist and HIMS AME have to concur. Application for SI medical, with continued Sobriety (urine), recovery activities, 90 ay visits to the sponsoring HIMS AME, annual to the HIMS psychiatrist.4 years of that B4 eligible to be considered for "own recognizance".
 
bbchien said:
He is evasive as to his sobriety date, and finally tells me that he drinks sporadically- beer last week. So I tell him he will not succeed, because he will not. FAA-wise He has lost the privilege of an occasional beer or three, as he has plainly continued the use of alcohol even though he has had adverse consequences of its continued use (the 2004 DUI).

He is evasive as to his sobriety date, and finally tells me that he drinks sporadically- beer last week. So I tell him he will not succeed, because he will not. FAA-wise He has lost the privilege of an occasional beer or three, as he has plainly continued the use of alcohol even though he has had adverse consequences of its continued use (the 2004 DUI).
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To be clear, does this mean if you had two alcohol related offenses 10+ years ago you must completely abstain from alcohol (0 drinks ever) in order receive medical clearance?
 
Cardiff_Kook said:
To be clear, does this mean if you had two alcohol related offenses 10+ years ago you must completely abstain from alcohol (0 drinks ever) in order receive medical clearance?
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Yes. Because if have abused, and keep drinking, and had thousands of $$s of negative consequences, it does say something about the hold alcohol has on you.....
 
guwst said:
So what is the approach to 3 duis in a 5 year period. went 4 years and then got 2nd and 3rd very close together. been sober almost a year year with monthly testing. i am sure there is a long way to go. I plan to pay the private probation company to keep doing ransoms every month for me. i was thinking it could take many years.

thanks!
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This is defined as “dependency, untreated”—> go directly to rehab. Do not pass go!
 
Cardiff_Kook said:
To be clear, does this mean if you had two alcohol related offenses 10+ years ago you must completely abstain from alcohol (0 drinks ever) in order receive medical clearance?
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One more than 10years, one under 10 years here, on a Special Issuance 3rd Class now. Had to see HIMS Psych, get cleared, 15 Random UA's in 12 month period, meeting w/ HIMS AME every 6 months.

Once 12 months are up, should be cleared to standard issuance.
 
In the 12 months while you were being tested were you grounded or could you pursue instruction/solo?

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Cardiff_Kook said:
In the 12 months while you were being tested were you grounded or could you pursue instruction/solo?

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I was granted Special Issuance following HIMS Psych sign off and setup with HIMS AME. Started 12 mo UA's at that time with full medical privileges. In that time got PPL, Tailwheel, High Performance, Complex and working on Instrument. 12 months up in March. The random's are annoying because I have a job and travel a lot for work, but it's not that bad and I get to fly.
 
Do you mind sharing your timeline for your deferral and SI issuance? I’m in a similar situation.My time line is a bit longer. 22 and 14 years ago. Im hoping I get a similar disposition.
 
Airplane guy 28 said:
Do you mind sharing your timeline for your deferral and SI issuance? I’m in a similar situation.My time line is a bit longer. 22 and 14 years ago. Im hoping I get a similar disposition.
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6 mo’s. My application was complete. Every legal record, HIMS Psych & AME rec, no follow up requested by FAA
 
Thanks
I’m Going on 4 months now. I wish I had started this before I began training. It was so long ago I didn’t think it would be an issue until my AME deferred me. Then I found this forum and realized I did it all wrong.
 
guest said:
One more than 10years, one under 10 years here, on a Special Issuance 3rd Class now. Had to see HIMS Psych, get cleared, 15 Random UA's in 12 month period, meeting w/ HIMS AME every 6 months.

Once 12 months are up, should be cleared to standard issuance.
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Had you retained the paperwork from 10+ years ago? I had heard you need paperwork to demonstrate BAC.
 
Cardiff_Kook said:
Had you retained the paperwork from 10+ years ago? I had heard you need paperwork to demonstrate BAC.
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BAC record was kept by Dept of Licensing. Arrest/Court records, no, I provided a letter from the arresting agency that they don’t keep them that far back.
 
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