F15's couldn't catch 'em . . .

OtisAir

OtisAir

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OtisAir
A couple of F-15 jets flying CAP tried to intercept a GA aircraft yesterday in Jersey after the aircraft flew into restricted airspace during President Barack Obama's visit to New York City. The report indicates that aircraft took off and returned to Central Jersey airport before the Eagles could reach it. Don't know if ground crews met up with the pilot(s) or not.
 
OtisAir said:
A couple of F-15 jets flying CAP tried to intercept a GA aircraft yesterday in Jersey after the aircraft flew into restricted airspace during President Barack Obama's visit to New York City. The report indicates that aircraft took off and returned to Central Jersey airport before the Eagles could reach it. Don't know if ground crews met up with the pilot(s) or not.
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Apparently they caught up with the pilot at the airport (47N): http://www.app.com/article/20090921...Jersey+responding+to+plane+in+restricted+area

Does a POTUS visit to NYC really require a TFR extended that far into central NJ?
 
Major Mike Humphreys, spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command, said the U.S. Air Force F-15s responded to the "general aviation aircraft,'' between 2:25 an 2:40 p.m. Monday.
The aircraft left from the Central Jersey Airport in Hillsborough and returned to the airport before the jets reached it, he said.
The pilot was then met by airport authorities, Humphreys said.
No one at the airport was immediately reachable.

Humphreys said he could not detail the area covered by the temporary flight restriction or how long it was supposed to be in place.
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Hmmmm...even the mouth piece didn't know....
 
dmccormack said:
Does a POTUS visit to NYC really require a TFR extended that far into central NJ?
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The Secret Service says it does, and since they are empowered to make the rules on that, that's the way it is. Stay out or the FAA will make you stay on the ground -- no third choice for us other than lobbying Congress while obeying the rules as they are now.
 
More proof that the Secret Service, or anyone defending them, should be considered morons - and punched in the throat.
 
Ron Levy said:
The Secret Service says it does, and since they are empowered to make the rules on that, that's the way it is. Stay out or the FAA will make you stay on the ground -- no third choice for us other than lobbying Congress while obeying the rules as they are now.
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Perhaps the SS should have less power?

Of course, I may be siding with the terrorists.:mad3:
 
EdFred said:
More proof that the Secret Service, or anyone defending them, should be considered morons - and punched in the throat.
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After reading a newspaper feature about USSS hand-to-hand combat training, I think that would be even more unwise than busting a TFR.
 
The jackasses should be put under control of the POTUS. We voted him in, not the SS.
 
Ron Levy said:
After reading a newspaper feature about USSS hand-to-hand combat training, I think that would be even more unwise than busting a TFR.
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I used to instruct law enforcement officers in hand to hand combat myself. I'm not particularly worried.
 
Ron Levy said:
Feel free to take that up with your reps in Congress. Until then, it is the way it is, and you can either live with it or lose your license to fly.
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Ron -- did I suggest busting a TFR?

No.

I do think the size and duration of these TFRs is out of hand (see Pittsburgh this week for proof).

I'll try my congressman again, but my prediction is a nice "Thank you for your concern letter" reply.
 
EdFred said:
I used to instruct law enforcement officers in hand to hand combat myself. I'm not particularly worried.
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Are these a couple of you graduates?

122154814_462df2f7c6.jpg
 
steingar said:
The jackasses should be put under control of the POTUS.
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That control was effectively revoked on November 23, 1963, and with threats worthy of investigation coming in at a rate of 30-40 a day (a new record), that control isn't going to be reestablished.
 
Ron Levy said:
That control was effectively revoked on November 23, 1963, and with threats worthy of investigation coming in at a rate of 30-40 a day (a new record), that control isn't going to be reestablished.
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Seems like a serious blow to the division of powers, the Legislative branch making such specific policy for the Executive. You're telling me that Congress controls the protection of the head of the Executive branch?
 
Does a POTUS visit to NYC really require a TFR extended that far into central NJ?
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This isn't your standard POTUS TFR. The event is the UN General Assembly opening, with a lot of foreign dignitaries coming and going, and the TFR matches the outline of the Class Bravo (kinda like the DC ADIZ used to).

We wouldn't want anything bad to happen to our guests, which include Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Muammar Qaddafi.
-harry
 
steingar said:
The jackasses should be put under control of the POTUS. We voted him in, not the SS.
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Well, technically the USSS is, since the USSS is part of DHS which is a cabinet-level department under the Executive branch.


Trapper John
 
Ah so now I'm being called a liar - by the MC no less. How wonderful.
 
Folks do that here with a surprising degree of impunity. Not conducive to good community interactions.
 
maybe AOPA should start a counterfeit ring so big it will suck up all SS's resources for their primary purpose and they won't have time to issue TFRs
 
Trapper John said:
Well, technically the USSS is, since the USSS is part of DHS which is a cabinet-level department under the Executive branch.


Trapper John
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It is? I always thought the USSS (can we change the name to something else, so we don't have to abbreviate it SS?) was a part of the DOT?
 
How often do we think this happens? The F15s are there for show, as well as to catch unintentional violators. They would not do much good if this had actually been serious. I'm also sure that people get on the ground before their escorts get there quite often...

The above discussion is interesting, but I don't actually care about the TFR, the USSS, or any of the countless unnecessary agencies. What I do care about is that it is *my* money that is used to pay for all this theater. Hey, did you know that in countries that have a much larger export output than the U.S., and that are more powerful economically, heads of state fly in Gulfstreams? And that they don't freak out when there's a threat? It really has gotten out of hand here, especially since it all costs money.

-Felix
 
I'm also sure that people get on the ground before their escorts get there quite often...
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The airport that the guy departed from, and then turned back to and landed at, is only a mile or two outside the edge of a very large TFR. Unless we know just how far he penetrated the TFR before turning around, we can't really conclude anything from the fact that the F-15s didn't reach him before he landed.
-harry
 
mantakos said:
This isn't your standard POTUS TFR. The event is the UN General Assembly opening, with a lot of foreign dignitaries coming and going, and the TFR matches the outline of the Class Bravo (kinda like the DC ADIZ used to).

We wouldn't want anything bad to happen to our guests, which include Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Muammar Qaddafi.
-harry
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Same swine effluvia will be in residence here for a short time -- their eminences warrant shutting down an entire city.
 
mantakos said:
The airport that the guy departed from, and then turned back to and landed at, is only a mile or two outside the edge of a very large TFR. Unless we know just how far he penetrated the TFR before turning around, we can't really conclude anything from the fact that the F-15s didn't reach him before he landed.
-harry
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It all just could have been him practicing his drunken farmer flying routine.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
It is? I always thought the USSS (can we change the name to something else, so we don't have to abbreviate it SS?) was a part of the DOT?
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Used to be Treasury...got reorged into DHS when the department was formed...they didn't have as good of a lobby as the FBI to escape it.
 
EdFred said:
Ah so now I'm being called a liar - by the MC no less. How wonderful.
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Ed, I don't think Ron was doubting the fact of your instruction; merely the effect of your skills vis a vis those of the USSS personnel.

Hence, I don't think he's calling you a liar- I think he's calling you an optimist.
 
SCCutler said:
Ed, I don't think Ron was doubting the fact of your instruction; merely the effect of your skills vis a vis those of the USSS personnel.

Hence, I don't think he's calling you a liar- I think he's calling you an optimist.
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I disagree.
 
steingar said:
Seems like a serious blow to the division of powers, the Legislative branch making such specific policy for the Executive. You're telling me that Congress controls the protection of the head of the Executive branch?
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No, I'm not, and I didn't say that, either.
 
SCCutler said:
Ed, I don't think Ron was doubting the fact of your instruction; merely the effect of your skills vis a vis those of the USSS personnel.

Hence, I don't think he's calling you a liar- I think he's calling you an optimist.
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Very accurate summation, counselor. I'd suggest Ed read http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/17/AR2009071701785.html and compare that training to the training in which he was involved -- I suspect it's a bit more intense than standard LEO hand-to-hand training.
 
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