F-15 Air to Air

[35 AoA]

Awesome.

Can you elaborate a bit (for us civilians) about how you use it to your advantage?

When they close their eyes at the merge, they have more stick feel to execute a really good 9G level turn. Knowing their turn rate at such a fixed value, they again open their eyes after 360 degrees of turn and if the guy isn't in their HUD, they keep it up, because obviously the other guy is doing it wrong.

 

[asechrest]

When they close their eyes at the merge, they have more stick feel to execute a really good 9G level turn. Knowing their turn rate at such a fixed value, they again open their eyes after 360 degrees of turn and if the guy isn't in their HUD, they keep it up, because obviously the other guy is doing it wrong.

Love the friendly military aviator banter. :wink2:

But I was at least somewhat interested in how digital flight controls, or lack thereof, affects ACM.

 

[Velocity173]

When they close their eyes at the merge, they have more stick feel to execute a really good 9G level turn. Knowing their turn rate at such a fixed value, they again open their eyes after 360 degrees of turn and if the guy isn't in their HUD, they keep it up, because obviously the other guy is doing it wrong.

Do you all use the HUD much these days? You use the JHMCS correct?

 

[X3 Skier]

One of the early cues in fighting a F- 16 was they tended to have a tendency to turn right since the driver tended to favor looking over the right shoulder since with the right handed side stick, looking left was awkward. Once you died a couple of times because of that, you learned a hard lesson not to be forgotten.

Cheers

 

[EvilEagle]

Digital flight controls work on rules. As the saying goes - 'we don need no stinkin rules'. Especially limiting for the 16, "HAL" won't let you continue to pull past the lift limit where in the Eagle you can pull all day long if you want (doesn't mean you'll get anywhere) but you are only limited by actual jet performance. The 16 is limited by where the engineers and test pilots agreed was the 'edge of the envelope'. Some edges are wider than others...

We enjoy an alpha advantage over just about everything except the 18. As such, if a 16 gets his nose pointed downhill more than about 45 degrees you can lead turn him in the vertical WAY early since there's no way he can generate the AOA to cause an overshoot. Conversely, when in a vertical fight with a Hornet, we have to wait until seeing the turn circle entry cues (line of sight rate, aspect break, etc) before committing our nose downhill as well otherwise we risk being neutralized. That's a very basic example, but I hope it shows the idea.

 

[EvilEagle]

Do you all use the HUD much these days? You use the JHMCS correct?

Everyone uses the HUD. I've been flying with the JHMCS since 2004 and it's just not as useful as a HUD for most visual fighting. It cues the 9x to some pretty sweet off boresight shots, but it's much easier to take a quick glance at the HUD than refocus your eyes to see what the lid is telling you. YMMV, but that's what all the Eagle dudes do.

 

[Dr. O]

It should be interesting to see what flying 2 or 3 times a month under Obama will do for skill levels.

 

[X3 Skier]

There is a similar F-15/F-16 difference in commercial aircraft control system design between Airbus and Boeing that played a minor difference in the Tanker competition. Airbus puts in hard limits to "protect the airplane from the pilot" while Boeing chooses to have soft limits to "protect the pilot from the airplane".

Thus, theoretically, if an extreme maneuver was required to avoid ground fire for example, the Airbus would limit g's while Boeing would allow over g in the maneuver. Boeing used that in their propaganda even though Airbus could have changed the limits if the USAF desired.

I always preferred the Boeing approach in the weapon systems I worked on. Give the pilot everything the airplane has if it is needed. Better an over g inspection than something nasty up the tailpipe.

Cheers

 

[35 AoA]

Everyone uses the HUD. I've been flying with the JHMCS since 2004 and it's just not as useful as a HUD for most visual fighting. It cues the 9x to some pretty sweet off boresight shots, but it's much easier to take a quick glance at the HUD than refocus your eyes to see what the lid is telling you. YMMV, but that's what all the Eagle dudes do.

Agreed. I reference it a bit in flight, and use as noted above, but it isn't a replacement for the HUD (as your primary instrument) as it is/will be in the JSF. Nice piece of equipment though

 

[nauga]

Digital flight controls work on rules...We enjoy an alpha advantage over just about everything except the 18.

There are rules and then there are guidelines It's the digital flight controls that give the Hornet that high AOA capability - ask 35AOA how well he'd fare meeting you at the merge in MECH/DEL/DEL

Nauga,
the control lawyer

 

[EvilEagle]

I hear ya, from what I've been told by Hornet guys, their flight control computer has a LOT less limitations than the F-16. I'm much less familiar with it though, so I just gave the example of the F16.