Experimental

frfly172

frfly172

Touchdown! Greaser!
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ron keating
If one should decide to alter a certified aircraft,to experimental,where would you find the rules and info? Don't think the bank would be happy. I understand once you go experimental you can't go back to certified.
 
FSDO will have the paperwork. Normally aircraft are converted to experimental so that work can be done during STC development, or something is being added to carry something extra (external camera pod for example). Then converted back to standard certification when the STC is approved, or equipment removed and the aircraft returned to factory standard.
 
Lots of implications and restrictions, it's not just willy nilly, grab a stencil and paint the word on. Otherwise everyone would be doing it.
 
You have to submit a letter, called a Project Letter to the FSDO, explaining why you want to go from a Standard Airworthiness Cerificate to Experimental. There are a number of different categories, see FAR Part 21. The problem is when you want to go back to Standard. You will need to have a ASI do a conformity inspection. If they find anything that does not conform to the original type certificate, you have a problem that will need to be taken care of, which could mean lots of time and expense.
 
Rcmutz said:
You have to submit a letter, called a Project Letter to the FSDO, explaining why you want to go from a Standard Airworthiness Cerificate to Experimental. There are a number of different categories, see FAR Part 21. The problem is when you want to go back to Standard. You will need to have a ASI do a conformity inspection. If they find anything that does not conform to the original type certificate, you have a problem that will need to be taken care of, which could mean lots of time and expense.
Click to expand...

The other problem is that there is zero utility in a certified airplane registered that way. Generally you're limited to flight test only.
 
Taking a certified plane experimental does not give you the freedom you think it will. The purpose of doing so is typically for research and development, and the operating limitations are very stringent.

I would inquire to the OP WHY you would intend to take a certified airframe and take it into experimental status... whats your mission?
 
Rcmutz said:
You have to submit a letter, called a Project Letter to the FSDO, explaining why you want to go from a Standard Airworthiness Cerificate to Experimental. There are a number of different categories, see FAR Part 21. The problem is when you want to go back to Standard. You will need to have a ASI do a conformity inspection. If they find anything that does not conform to the original type certificate, you have a problem that will need to be taken care of, which could mean lots of time and expense.
Click to expand...

Not 100% accurate. Items might not conform to the original TC due to compliance with an AD, an STC or a field approval. Otherwise, yep, could be in for a few hassles.
 
Thanks for the info,from all. Wanted to start by using a different prop on the airplane.
 
frfly172 said:
Thanks for the info,from all. Wanted to start by using a different prop on the airplane.
Click to expand...


By different, I take it you mean " non certified ". Good luck with that. The cost of those certified prop are kinda steep. Why I fly experimental. Its just less expensive then certified.

I am sure over all these years you are not the only one who wanted to do this and for the same reason. I bet the FAA has seen it and heard it all before.

Sell her and by an Experimental would be my advice.

Tony
 
1600vw said:
Sell her and by an Experimental would be my advice.

Tony
Click to expand...

I don't think it's been mentioned...

The path from S-LSA to E-LSA is quite straightforward. One inspection and some paperwork. New Operating Limitations that are not significant more restrictive, except after a Major Alteration. Will obviously not work for everyone, but worked for me!
 
FastEddieB said:
I don't think it's been mentioned...

The path from S-LSA to E-LSA is quite straightforward. One inspection and some paperwork. New Operating Limitations that are not significant more restrictive, except after a Major Alteration. Will obviously not work for everyone, but worked for me!
Click to expand...


S-LSA and E-LSA are both experimental. I believe they are talking taking a GA " General Aviation " airframe or airplane and converting it over to Experimental.

Tony
 
1600vw said:
S-LSA and E-LSA are both experimental.

Tony
Click to expand...

I've never heard S-LSA classed as Experimental. I do not think they are, in any conventional sense. As one indicator - no "EXPERIMENTAL" decal to warn unsuspecting passengers.

You surrender a white S-LSA Airworthy Certificate for a pink one on conversion to E-LSA.

So I think you're wrong. Please elucidate me if I'm wrong!
 
FastEddieB said:
I've never heard S-LSA classed as Experimental. I do not think they are, in any conventional sense. As one indicator - no "EXPERIMENTAL" decal to warn unsuspecting passengers.

You surrender a white S-LSA Airworthy Certificate for a pink one on conversion to E-LSA.

So I think you're wrong. Please elucidate me if I'm wrong!
Click to expand...

Really I did not know this. You are right I did not know this. I learned something today. I love it when that happens.

Thanks Eddie for setting this straight. I thought an S-LSA was an experimental. Good to know.

I guess because its built by a factory or company its not an experimental.

Thanks again Eddie.

Tony
 
This explains why these things cost so much. I always wondered why an S-LSA was so darn expensive. Now I get it.

Da.....lol

Tony
 
Yep right here in black and white....Boy did I have this wrong...lol

Light-sport aircraft

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Three types of Light Sport Aircraft. In the foreground, an E-LSA Antares USA Ranger weight-shift control trike. In the background, an S-LSA Evektor SportStar and an L-LSA Zlin Aviation Savage Cub.


A light-sport aircraft, also known as light sport aircraft or LSA, is a small aircraft that is simple to fly and that meets certain regulations set by a national aviation authority restricting weight and performance. For example, in Australia the Civil Aviation Safety Authority defines a light-sport aircraft as a heavier-than-air or lighter-than-air craft, other than a helicopter, with a maximum gross takeoff weight of not more than 560 kilograms (1,230 lb) for lighter-than-air craft; 600 kilograms (1,300 lb) for heavier-than-air craft not intended for operation on water; or 650 kilograms (1,430 lb) for aircraft intended for operation on water.[1] It must have a maximum stall speed of 45 knots (83 km/h; 52 mph) in landing configuration; a maximum of two seats; there is no limit on maximum speed unless it is a glider, which is limited to Vne 135 kn CAS; fixed undercarriage (except for amphibious aircraft which, may have repositionable gear, and gliders which, may have retractable gear); an unpressurized cabin; and a single non-turbine engine driving a propeller if it is a powered aircraft.[1]
In the United States, several distinct groups of aircraft may be flown as light-sport.[2] Existing certificated aircraft and experimental, amateur-built aircraft that fall within the definition listed in 14CFR1.1[3] are acceptable, as are aircraft built to an industry consensus standard rather than FAA airworthiness requirements. The accepted consensus standard is defined by ASTM Technical Committee F37.[4] Aircraft built to the consensus standard may be factory-built and sold with a special airworthiness certification (S-LSA) or may be assembled from a kit under the experimental rules (E-LSA) under experimental airworthiness. A company must have produced and certified at least one S-LSA in order to be permitted to sell E-LSA kits of the same model. E-LSA kits are not subject to the normal experimental amateur built (E-AB) requirement 14CFR21.191[5] which identifies an aircraft, the "major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation."
Contents





United States - LSA Requirements

The Light Sport Aircraft Rule: The FAA defines a light sport aircraft as an aircraft, other than a helicopter or Powered-Lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following:[6]

  1. Max. Gross Takeoff Weight: 1,320 lbs (600 kg) or 1,430 lbs for seaplanes (650 kg)
  2. Max. Stall Speed: 51 mph / 45 knots CAS
  3. Max. Speed in Level Flight (at sea level at standard temperature):138 mph / 120 knots CAS
  4. Seats: Two (max.)
  5. Engines / Motors: One (max. if powered.)
  6. Propeller: Fixed-pitch or ground adjustable
  7. Cabin: Unpressurized
  8. Fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane.
  9. Landing Gear: Fixed (except for seaplanes and gliders)
United States - LSA Aircraft Licensing


  • Can be manufactured and sold ready-to-fly under a new Special Light Sport Aircraft certification category. Aircraft must meet industry consensus standards. Aircraft under this certification may be used for sport and recreation, flight training, and aircraft rental.
  • Can be licensed Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) if kit- or plans-built. Aircraft under this certification may be used only for sport and recreation and flight instruction for the owner of the aircraft.
  • Can be licensed Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (E-LSA) if the aircraft has previously been operated as an ultralight but does not meet the FAR Part 103 definition of an ultralight vehicle. These aircraft must have been transitioned to E-LSA category no later than January 31, 2008.
  • Will have a standard FAA registration - N-number.
  • Category and class includes: Airplane (Land/Sea), Gyroplane, Airship, Balloon, Weight-Shift-Control ("Trike", Land/Sea), Glider, and Powered Parachute.
  • U.S. or foreign manufacture of light sport aircraft is authorized.
  • Aircraft with a standard airworthiness certificate that meet above specifications may be flown by sport pilots. However, the aircraft must remain in standard category and cannot be changed to light sport aircraft category.
  • May be operated at night if the aircraft is equipped per FAR 91.205, if such operations are allowed by the aircraft's operating limitations and the pilot holds at least a Private Pilot certificate and a minimum of a third-class medical.
United States - FAA LSA Certification

Several different kinds of aircraft may be certificated as LSA. Airplanes (both powered and gliders), rotorcraft (gyroplanes only, not helicopters), powered parachutes, weight-shift control aeroplanes (commonly known as trikes), and lighter-than-air craft (free balloons and airships) may all be certificated as LSA if they fall within the weight and other guidelines established by the local governing authority.
The US definition of an LSA is similar to some other countries' definition of "microlight" or "ultralight" aircraft. Except for the LSA's relatively generous MTOW of 1320 pounds, the other countries' microlight definitions are typically less restrictive, not limiting airspeed or the use of variable-pitch propellers.
By contrast, the US FAA has a separate definition of ultralight aircraft defined in Federal Aviation Regulations. Aircraft falling within the US ultralight specifications are extremely lightweight (less than 254 pounds if powered, or 155 pounds if unpowered), are intended for manned operation by a single occupant, have a fuel capacity of five US gallons (about 19 litres) or less, a maximum calibrated airspeed of not more than 55 knots (102 km/h), and a maximum stall speed of not more than 24 knots (44 km/h). Ultralight aircraft in the US do not require pilot licensing, medical certification, or aircraft registration.
Aircraft certified as light-sport aircraft exceed the limitations defined for ultralight aircraft and require that the pilot possess, at a minimum, a sport pilot certificate. Among these aircraft were found those that were specifically designed to meet the LSA requirements, as well as overweight ultralights (commonly known as "fat ultralights") that previously were operated in technical violation of 14 CFR 103.
In addition to aircraft specifically designed to meet the LSA requirements, certain certificated aircraft, such as the original Piper Cub, happen to fall within the definition of a light-sport aircraft and can be operated by individuals holding FAA sport pilot certificates. The aircraft can not be re-certificated as LSA, however: although sport pilots may operate conventionally certificated aircraft that fall within the definition of an LSA, the aircraft themselves continue to be certificated in their original categories.
Several designers and manufacturers of experimental aircraft kits have developed models that are compliant with the light-sport aircraft rules.
In June 2012 the FAA indicated that they would re-visit the LSA program after their own studies indicated that "the majority" of LSA manufacturers they had inspected failed to show that they were in compliance with the standards. The FAA announcement said that as a result the "original policy of reliance on manufacturers' Statements of Compliance" ... "should be reconsidered."[7] AOPA points out that this is a normal development of a maturing standard[8] and does not expect any significant changes in the rules, only more scrutiny by FAA to assure compliance.
United States - FAA Certified LSA Models

Aircraft that met light-sport requirements when the rules were announced appear in FAA's list: Light Sport Aircraft: Existing Type Certificated Models.
Some additional models of S-LSA, E-LSA and E-AB aircraft that meet light-sport requirements are listed here.
Manufacturer Design Engine Max. cruise Max. range Price Orders Availability Type 3Xtrim 3Xtrim Navigator 600 100 HP Rotax 912 S 104 kn (193 km/h) 747 NM US$99,000 (Basic)
2008 Certified Advanced Composites Solutions ACS-100 Sora
120 kn (222 km/h)
US$75,000

Kit Aeropro CZ / fly-Aerotrek.com Aerotrek A240 (tricycle gear) or A220 (taildragger) (previously EuroFox) Rotax 912 A/ 912 S 115 kn (213 km/h) 570 NM (1056 km) US$67,950 300+ sold since 1990 Certified The Airplane Factory The Airplane Factory Sling 2 Rotax 912 S or 912 ULS 110 kn (201 km/h) 880 NM (1600 km) US$125,000 (Basic, Ready-to-Fly) 100+ 2010 Certified RTF & Kit Aviasud Engineering Aviasud Mistral Rotax 582 DCDI 65 kn (120 km/h) 270 NM, 500 km



Breezer (80 hp) Breezer Aircraft Rotax 912 UL2 96 kn (178 km/h) 497 NM (920 km)



CGS Aviation Hawk Arrow II SLSA Rotax 582, Rotax 912 F, HKS 700e, HKS 700T, Jabiru 2200 70 kn (130 km/h) 130 NM US$44,995 (Basic) 170+ (since 1992) 2008 Certified Comco Ikarus Ikarus C42 (80 hp) Rotax 912 F 105 kn 194 km/h



Certified Cessna Cessna 162 Continental O-200D 112 kn (207 km/h) 470 NM (870 km) US$149,000 195 (Feb 2014). 80 in stock for spares Since 2009 - discontinued Feb 2014 Certified Cirrus Design Cirrus SRS Rotax 912 S 120 kn (222 km/h)
US$110,000-US$120,000
Unknown, Project Suspended Certified Czech Sport Aircraft SportCruiser/PiperSport Rotax 912 S 118 kn (218 km/h) 600 NM (1111 km)
170+ delivered Available since 2006 Certified Czech Sport Aircraft/Wet Aero USA CZAW Mermaid Jabiru 3300 or Rotax 912S 110 kn (204 km/h) 450 NM (833 km) US$155,000, no kits
2006 Certified Progressive Aerodyne, Inc. Searey Elite LSA Rotax 914 91 kn (105 mph) 379 NM (609 km) US$144,000, Ready to fly.

LSA Certified Progressive Aerodyne, Inc. Searey Sport LSA Rotax 912UL 80 kn (92 mph) 363 NM (584 km) US$124,000, Ready to fly.

LSA Certified Europa Aircraft (2004) Europa XS Rotax 912 / 912 ULS / 914 or Jabiru Aircraft 120 kn (222 km/h) 750 NM US$40,500 w/o engine
2009 Kit FANTASY AIR Allegro 2007 Rotax 912 F or 912 S 119 kn (220 km/h) 750 NM (1400 km) US$82,000
2008 Certified Flight Design Flight Design CTsw: CTLS: CTLSi Rotax 912S ; Rotax 912iS 120 kn (222 km/h) 850 NM (1580 km) US$143,800 350+ 2005 Certified Higher Class Aviation Sport Hornet LRS Rotax 912 F or Rotax 582 100 kn (185 km/h) 450 NM (833 km) US$59,995 (Rotax 582 $45K), (kit $20K w/o engine) 040+ 2009 Certified Icon Aircraft Icon A5 Rotax 912 iS 105 kn (195 km/h) 300 NM (556 km) US$189,000 700[9] 2015[10] Certified JIHLAVAN airplanes, s.r.o. Skyleader 600 Rotax 912 100 hp & 115 hp 120 kn (222 km/h) 860 NM (1600 km) U.S. distributor www.skyleaderaircraftusa.com
Available Certified Kitfox Aircraft Kitfox Rotax 912 S 109 kn (201 km/h) 530 NM (980 km) US$25,000 (kit price) 4000+ (since 1984) 2008 ELSA Kit/Certified Paradise Aircraft Paradise P-1 100 HP, Rotax 912 S 120 kn (184 km/h) 747 NM (1385 km) US$108,800 (Basic)
2008 Certified Pipistrel Pipistrel Sinus LSA Rotax 912 80 hp 120 kn (222 km/h) 790 NM (1463 km) €69,900 (Basic, ready to fly) [11] 600+ Available since 1995 Certified LSA Airplane & Glider RTF & Kit Pipistrel Pipistrel Virus LSA Rotax 912 80 hp 120 kn (222 km/h) 790 NM (1463 km) €69,900 (Basic, ready to fly) [11] 600+ Available since 1995 Certified LSA Airplane & Glider RTF & Kit Pipistrel Pipistrel Virus SW LSA Rotax 912 80 hp & 100 hp 120 kn (222 km/h) 790 NM (1000 km) €76,000 (Basic, ready to fly) [11] 600+ Available since 1995 Certified LSA Airplane & Glider RTF & Kit Pipistrel Pipistrel Taurus LSA Rotax 503, 55 hp 120 kn (222 km/h) 150 NM (300 km) €89,500 (Basic, ready to fly) [11] 600+ Available since 1995 Certified LSA Glider RTF Pipistrel Pipistrel Alpha Trainer Rotax 912 80 hp 120 kn (222 km/h) 790 NM (1000 km) €69,000 (Equipped, ready to fly) [11] 600+ Available since 1995 Certified LSA Airplane RTF SportairUSA, LC (distributor) Sting S4 Rotax 912 F 120 kn (222 km/h) 790 NM (1463 km) Sting.aero/pricing-options 70+ Available Certified Rainbow Aircraft (pty) ltd. Cheetah XLS Rotax 912 or Rotax 582 or Jabiru 2200A 83 kn (153 km/h) 450 NM (833 km) US$48,450 (Rotax 582 ), (kit US$22,000) 100+ 2001 ELSA Kit/Certified Remos Aircraft Remos G-3 Rotax 912 S, 100HP 120 kn (222 km/h) 550 NM / 1018 km US$109,500
2007 Certified Remos Aircraft Remos GX Rotax 912 S 100HP 115 kn (212 km/h) 450 NM (833 km) US$125,000

Certified Skyeton Skyeton K-10 Swift Rotax 912 S, 100HP 120 kn (222 km/h) 486 NM (900 km) US$70,000 (Basic)
2006 Certified Storm Aircraft Storm Rally Rotax 912 S 120 kn (222 km/h) 450 NM (830 km) US$109,999 (Standard)
2004 Certified Storm Aircraft Storm Century Rotax 912 S 120 kn (222 km/h) 450 NM (830 km) US$111,999 (Standard)
2004 Certified Tecnam Aircraft Tecnam P2004 Rotax 912 S 116 kn (222 km/h)
US$99,900 100+ 2005 Certified Terrafugia, Inc. Terrafugia Transition Rotax 912 S (when certified) 93 kn (107 mph) 450 nmi (520 mi) US$279,000 100 2012 Experimental/Certification planned (As of April 2012) Cub Crafters Sport Cub and Carbon Cub CC11-100/-160 Titan 340CC, 180 HP 88 kn (163 km/h) 391 NM (724 km) US$149,990 (Ready-to-fly) 300+ 2009 ELSA Kit/Certified AMD Zodiac 650B (S-LSA) Continental O-200 + Others 120 kn (222 km/h)
US$99,900

Certified Van's Aircraft RV-12 Rotax 912 S 114 kn (211 km/h) 534 NM (980 km) US$64,850 (full kit), US$105,000 (Ready-to-fly) 600+ 2008 ELSA Kit/Certified LSA definition in Europe

In June 2011, the European Aviation Safety Agency published CS-LSA Certification Specifications for Light Sport Aeroplanes.[12] This introduced a new category of manufactured sport aeroplanes similar to the light-sport category found in the USA and elsewhere.
LSA definition in Australia

A new certification category for Light Sport Aircraft came into effect on 7 January 2006.[13] This category does not replace the previous categories, but creates a new category with the following characteristics:[14]

  • A maximum take-off weight of 600 kg (1,323 lb) or 650 kg (1,433 lb) for an aircraft intended and configured for operation on water or 560 kg (1,235 lb) for a lighter-than-air aircraft.
  • A maximum stalling speed in the landing configuration (Vso) of 45 kn (83 km/h) CAS.
  • Maximum of two occupants, including the pilot.
  • A fixed landing gear. A glider may have retractable landing gear. (For an aircraft intended for operation on water, a fixed or repositionable landing gear)
  • A single, non-turbine engine fitted with a propeller.
  • A non-pressurised cabin.
  • If the aircraft is a glider a maximum never exceed speed (Vne) of 135 kn (250 km/h) CAS
Light-sport aircraft can be factory-manufactured aircraft or kits for amateur-building.
See also


References



<li id="cite_note-CASA2140-1"> CASA Advisory Circular AC 21-41(0): Light Sport Aircraft Certificate of Airworthiness retrieved 3 August 2011 <li id="cite_note-faa.gov-2">
<li id="cite_note-faa.gov-2"> http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/ <li id="cite_note-3">
<li id="cite_note-3"> http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.1.1&idno=14 <li id="cite_note-4">
<li id="cite_note-4"> http://www.astm.org/COMMITTEE/F37.htm <li id="cite_note-5">
<li id="cite_note-5"> http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2003-title14-vol1/xml/CFR-2003-title14-vol1-sec21-191.xml <li id="cite_note-EAA-6">
<li id="cite_note-EAA-6"> EAA <li id="cite_note-Pew29Jun12-7">
<li id="cite_note-Pew29Jun12-7"> Pew, Glenn (29 June 2012). "FAA: SLSA Certification Should Be Reconsidered". AVweb. Retrieved 2 July 2012. <li id="cite_note-8">
<li id="cite_note-8"> http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2012/120705faa-plans-greater-role-in-lsa-certification.html <li id="cite_note-icon-osh-9">
<li id="cite_note-icon-osh-9"> "Icon Aircraft Takes Record 143 Orders at AirVenture" (PDF). Retrieved 28 October 2011. <li id="cite_note-10">
<li id="cite_note-10"> "FAA Audit clears Icon A5 for Production". Australian Flying.com. Yaffa Publishing Group. Retrieved 19 June 2015. <li id="cite_note-pipi-usa-11">
<li id="cite_note-pipi-usa-11"> "Pipistrel Price Lists for Ready to Fly Aircraft". Retrieved 15 September 2011. <li id="cite_note-12">
<li id="cite_note-12"> CS-LSA <li id="cite_note-13">
<li id="cite_note-13"> Synopsis: the Light Sport Aircraft category Dead link <li id="cite_note-14">

  1. The Australian definition of a light sport aircraft is found in the Dictionary to the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations.

External links

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A new one I never heard of...L-LSA. I have never heard of this before.
 
What in the heck is an L-LSA..I need some education here. Or some learnin as us flat billy's call it. I am not a hill billy. We don't have hills in central Illinois. Its all flat. So I am a flat billy..lol
 
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