Expensive landing

dmccormack said:
Oh really? How many FPM does idle power arrest your descent rate when at Best Glide?

There is a difference between "engine out" and "power to idle" and it's important to know that.

While probably 80% of my landings are power to idle abeam the numbers (when VFR), I take a much more aggressive approach when practicing "power out" landings -- immediate turn to runway, flaps only when I'm sure I've got the runway made, and aggressive slipping to disappate any excess energy.
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No duh sherlock. That's how its done. Of course there's a difference between idle and shut-off, but there's always a difference when landing at idle, due to wind and atmospheric density. A shut-off landing in one condition could be identical to an idle power landing at another. Just because there is a difference doesn't mean one should not do the occasional simulated engine-out drill, with the power moved to idle.

I am starting to think you argue with me just for the sake or arguing with me.
 
Real simple throught process for me. If the gear won't come down (and that's un likely scenario in the Arrow, that emergency extention system is about as simple as they come) the insurance company has bought the airplane. I'm interested in only one thing, getting my passengers and myself on the ground with no injuries. Airplanes are expendable, people aren't. When the prop starts making 'ting, ting, ting' sounds that's too bad. Now, if it's because I forgot that level in the panel, oops. If not, :dunno:
 
Ghery said:
Real simple throught process for me. If the gear won't come down (and that's un likely scenario in the Arrow, that emergency extention system is about as simple as they come) the insurance company has bought the airplane. I'm interested in only one thing, getting my passengers and myself on the ground with no injuries. Airplanes are expendable, people aren't. When the prop starts making 'ting, ting, ting' sounds that's too bad. Now, if it's because I forgot that level in the panel, oops. If not, :dunno:
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I have to admit, I agree with this reasoning and take it all back. My insurer would probably be relieved at my reversal, since repairing a damaged airplane is far less expensive than repairing a damaged passenger. Any of you think GA is expensive, try paying your hospital bill.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
The twin is a bit different to glide. When we shut one down and feather it, the plane really floats and one must set up much different than a normal landing. That's why one often reads about a twin on one coming in too high and fast. It must really change with both shut down and feathered. We don't train for that at all.
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With two feathered and the gear up, you'll really float. So, if you kill both engines you'll transition from a fairly high sink rate (two windmilling but no gear) to the cleanest the airplane has ever been. It's do-able on a really long runway. If you're pressed for distance you'll wind up short (like a recent 310) or smack down hard like the Seneca in the video. I'd consider it myself under good conditions; if you're not comfortable or fairly experienced then don't try it. It certainly isn't something that can be practiced. :)

Three bladed props? There's no way to save a teardown.
 
rotorhead1026 said:
If you're pressed for distance you'll wind up short (like a recent 310) or smack down hard like the Seneca in the video. I'd consider it myself under good conditions; if you're not comfortable or fairly experienced then don't try it. It certainly isn't something that can be practiced. :)

Three bladed props? There's no way to save a teardown.
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I'm both comfortable and fairly experienced, and I still wouldn't attempt it. It seems that the others who are in the same comfortable/experienced boat feel the same. Pulling the mixtures once I'm over the runway with landing assured, I might do that. But that's about it. Even one of our favorite glider pilots let the prop make ugly noises when faced with that decision and, well, he's a glider pilot.

When I had roughly 200 hours, I used to think that would be a great idea. I also know a few macho pilots with lots of hours who say that's what they'd do. I'm pretty sure that they would end up in a worse off situation than otherwise, like most of those before them who tried the same thing.

Jesse nailed it. Put your ego away, and realize that sometimes you can save your skin (and probably your ticket), but the tin is going to need some work. Personally, if I have my skin, I'm happy.
 
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