ex-SEAL chases dog's killers

I met and spent time with Major Dick Winters (Of Band of Brothers fame).

He's the nicest, most down-to-earth human being you'll ever meet.

Read the book -- he and his buddies saw the elephant more than once.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
but you don't get a pass to violate the rules and expectations of society because of this "I served my country" bull----.
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Who claimed he "got a pass?"

If he was making that claim, he'd have plugged the scum himself.

By the way -- those of us who "served my country" see it as something other than "bull."
 
Just watched the Goldwater video, quite interesting. He'll never see a charge, it would be political suicide for a DA. My opinion hasn't changed, he gets a pass, he's earned it, it's part of his pay package.
 
dmccormack said:
I met and spent time with Major Dick Winters (Of Band of Brothers fame).

He's the nicest, most down-to-earth human being you'll ever meet.

Read the book -- he and his buddies saw the elephant more than once.
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What is "the elephant"? (I didn't read all of the thread). I am assuming it means imminent death?
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
For sure, but accepting and dealing with it does not necessarily involve a hands-off approach. If the guy needs mental help, or even confinement, then that's what's necessary. As you've pointed out, it's an unfortunate reality - but you don't get a pass to violate the rules and expectations of society because of this "I served my country" bull----.
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Well, you're right to a degree, it takes more than just that. I knew nothing about this particular guy before this thread, but from the story related in the thread, I know I have met his brothers so to speak. They were highly trained, and that includes psychological training and gave a lot more and went through a lot more than just "served my country". A cook at the AFB in Kansas can make that claim, and for him, I can completely agree, no pass. I just watched the Goldwater video. Sorry, this guy should and will get a pass. He's even doing pretty well. If he killed a person for killing his dog? Yep, that person done f-ed up. Sorry, but yeah, uh, surprise, you get to die today for being a scumbag as-hole. The guy did what we've trained him to do, "It's what you pay me for...". Seriously, watch the video, and tell me, "If you were DA, would you file charges?" I don't think you could get an indictment from a Grand Jury in Berkley....
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Marcus story about what happened with the dog, in his own words:
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Shoots the dog then threatens to kill the owner...:nono:

Sounds like the setup for a classic case of the good old boys talking to the sheriff: "why did you shoot them?" "they needed killin'"

Hooligans with no respect for life at all. Despicable cretins. I'm with Henning on this one.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Marcus story about what happened with the dog, in his own words:

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Wait, he didn't even kill anybody?!? WTF is the fuss? Hell, I would have given him a pass on the shoot & kill. What, they're gonna prosecute him for what, speeding? Reckless Endangerment? Please.....
 
Henning said:
Wait, he didn't even kill anybody?!? WTF is the fuss? Hell, I would have given him a pass on the shoot & kill. What, they're gonna prosecute him for what, speeding? Reckless Endangerment? Please.....
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I don't think that any charges have been pressed and I don't think anyone has said that they have. I suspect the local authortities planned on letting this slide. Basically--you just have a bunch of folks in a thread upset because the man drove fast. Whatever.

There is a good chance he could have totally gotten away with responding with deadly force. The other party was armed--they already fired killing his dog--and at that point--were a threat against him. I really don't think he is covered under Texas SB378 because it wasn't in his home--but--he'd still most likely walk away clean.

Of course if they would have entered his home...the situation is clear as can be in Texas..and he could have used deadly force.
 
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Anthony said:
Wow. We really aren't anywhere near on the same page on this one. That is really disrespectful.
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No disrespect intended. I'm sick of the "I was in the military so I am therefore entitled to respect for that reason alone" attitude.
 
jesse said:
I don't think that any charges have been pressed and I don't think anyone has said that they have. I suspect the local authortities planned on letting this slide. Basically--you just have a bunch of folks in a thread upset because the man drove fast. Whatever.

There is a good chance he could have totally gotten away with responding with deadly force. The other party was armed--they already fired killing his dog--and at that point--were a threat against him. I really don't think he is covered under Texas SB378 because it wasn't in his home--but--he'd still most likely walk away clean.
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But he didn't, he chased them down. Even so, the mitigating circumstances say "pass".

Whether the issue is speeding or murder is really not an issue either. The issue really has been with Obi's stance that he shouldn't be cut any slack in the civilian legal system because he "served his country". My point is that while yes, the position of "he served" alone should not be and is not a default defense. There are other mitigating factors though that happened during the course of that service that do call exception. Now, we also allow these same exceptions for civilians who have gone through extremely traumatic events as well. Battered wives and abused children regularly get walks for what would otherwise be murder. We don't give him a walk for serving, we give him a walk for what he went through during that service, and it's not because he was a soldier, it's because he is a human, and there is none of us that is guaranteed not to be in a similar state tomorrow. Humanity causes us to make exceptions for exceptional circumstances because it is what we would expect for ourselves in similar circumstances. It's an issue separate from the issue of having served itself.

So Obi, while I accept your arguement, I find it incomplete and over ruled in this particular case.:smilewinkgrin:
 
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Obi Heed Kenobi said:
No disrespect intended. I'm sick of the "I was in the military so I am therefore entitled to respect for that reason alone" attitude.
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I don't see anywhere in this case where they guy is claiming this nor have I heard it from other former active duty personnel.

I do see folks here saying he deserves a pass for what he has done. I agree.

He is an example of many out there we never hear about because they can't talk it. The two most common reasons they are silent are due to national security or they are dead. This man was very close to the latter. He's not disclosing anything of national security interest and it doesn't sound like ever would because of his patriotism. However, the rest of his story does need to be heard.
 
KennyFlys said:
I don't see anywhere in this case where they guy is claiming this nor have I heard it from other former active duty personnel.

I do see folks here saying he deserves a pass for what he has done. I agree.

He is an example of many out there we never hear about because they can't talk it. The two most common reasons they are silent are due to national security or they are dead. This man was very close to the latter. He's not disclosing anything of national security interest and it doesn't sound like ever would because of his patriotism. However, the rest of his story does need to be heard.
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Sadly, the truth is, it will be largely ignored, and there are many lessons to be learned on various subjects if we care to listen. He speaks the story well, many in his place have a hard time telling it.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
So what? Do we live in Afghanistan?
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Nope, worse in some cases. We live in a country that pays LIP SERVICE to "we are a nation of laws, not man".

Bull****. Our judges are "man", our juries are "man", and many, many, many times people are not tried, acquitted, given lessor sentence because MAN "feels" that the actions were justified or the punishment does not fit the "crime".
 
Henning said:
Sadly, the truth is, it will be largely ignored, and there are many lessons to be learned on various subjects if we care to listen. He speaks the story well, many in his place have a hard time telling it.
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You could see that in his speech at the Goldwater Institute.
 
dmccormack said:
Hunh?

Who's giving you that?

Methinks he doth protest too much...
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It comes from a long culmination of things, not particularly this event. There is a level of truth to what he argues, but it is misapplied in this circumstance.
 
KennyFlys said:
You could see that in his speech at the Goldwater Institute.
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I've heard the story (not his specific, but "the same story of what any of us would consider horrific circumstances, stuff even your nightmares can't fathom" stuff from vets in the VA) before where it took all day to tell. He's done quite well. You can see the survivors guilt still in him though.
 
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Henning said:
It comes from a long culmination of things, not particularly this event. There is a level of truth to what he argues, but it is misapplied in this circumstance.
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Wayy too convoluted for my simple vet brain.

I served. Many served. We don't make a big deal about it.

The few that do demand respect for that simple fact typically haven't done much.
 
Henning said:
It comes from a long culmination of things, not particularly this event. There is a level of truth to what he argues, but it is misapplied in this circumstance.
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That may very well be, and I'll freely admit it (and if I've wronged this particular man, then that is my mistake). Like I said, if it had been me in his position, I very likely would have done the same thing.
 
dmccormack said:
Wayy too convoluted for my simple vet brain.

I served. Many served. We don't make a big deal about it.

The few that do demand respect for that simple fact typically haven't done much.
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Exactly, and a large part of Obi's general argument. As I said, in this case the circumstance for that argument does not fit.
 
woodstock said:
What is "the elephant"? (I didn't read all of the thread). I am assuming it means imminent death?
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Apparently the phrase dates back to the 1800's- denotes "been there, done that"

see:
http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/site/comments/elephant_to_see_the/
This reference dates the expression to the California Gold Rush
http://books.google.com/books?id=nH...tWZBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10

Other references seem to date the phrase to the civil war. It probably doesn't date back to Hannibal.
 
He showed remarkable restraint. Part of the 911 call, the operator told him to keep up with them. Later, she said she didn't want him to drive so fast.
I can't pretend to know what is in the head of a person who kills animals with such carelessness, but things seem to indicate they graduate to killing people. He did everyone a favor assisting in their capture.
6 months. Not nearly enough.
 
Like I said, if it had been me in his position, I very likely would have done the same thing.[/quote]

Somehow I sincerly doubt that.
 
chambers said:
Somehow I sincerly doubt that.
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Care to elaborate?

Or is it just that "saying everyone should be subject to the same laws, regardless of circumstances = *****y?"
 
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